New GotWay Nikola 17''

[Nils]

17 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Details...Details

Right? Sheesh, everyone's a critic

[Patton250]

What are the settings hard, medium and soft for? What do the do and how do they affect the wheel? Thanks 

[Rywokast]

12 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

What are the settings hard, medium and soft for? What do the do and how do they affect the wheel? Thanks 

pedal "flex/dip" basically hard is absolutely flat always, medium is a little flex and a bit delayed, some people prefer this for their knees sake or really rough terrain, soft is like a drunken sailboat ride thats unimaginable why anyone would ever use it.. try it

btw thats referencing the 16S, idk if youre talking about that or another wheel.. every euc its the same concept but generally on gotway the differences are not as extreme as KS imo

Edited July 6, 2019 by Rywokast

[Patton250]

4 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

pedal "flex/dip" basically hard is absolutely flat always, medium is a little flex and a bit delayed, some people prefer this for their knees sake or really rough terrain, soft is like a drunken sailboat ride thats unimaginable why anyone would ever use it.. try it

So it’s like the shocks on a car?

[mrelwood]

6 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

So it’s like the shocks on a car?

No, the flex that the soft mode enables is to your leaning, not up-down like the shocks on a car.

Hard mode is like standing on solid ground. Medium is like standing on a rowing boat, the platforms tilt slowly forward a bit when accelerating (and backwards when braking). Soft mode is like short water skis, it will tilt a lot during acceleration and braking.

Try them out! Then you’ll know exactly.

[Rywokast]

3 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

So it’s like the shocks on a car?

uhh not really.. you can think of it like how quick is the wheels reaction time, no one has exact numbers but well say for instance hard is zero, the wheel will immediately react to all of your movements 99% of experienced users use this mode the majority of the time.. for medium you might be allowed 2 degrees forwards and back lean before the wheel reacts.. theoretically making for a less jarring, less snappy, and more relaxed riding experience.. a select few prefer this, some switch to it sometimes for a more chill ride or on bumpy or unforgiving roads/trails... i never recommend soft, though some people claim that it can aid during the initial learning phase when you are completely unsure how to react or how the wheel will react.. well say for instance soft mode will allow you 4 degrees of forwards and back pedal lean before reacting... shocks are shocks they absord bumps.. this is more or less to give you a bit more forgiveness for your movements

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, Rywokast said:

every euc its the same concept but generally on gotway the differences are not as extreme as KS imo

er, sorry, strongly disagree with this statement, Gotway modes are the most diverse IMHO, while all other MFR modes feel to me like varying degrees of the same thing.

 

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

So it’s like the shocks on a car?

No.

If you think through the whole response curve of the pedals over time, you can tweak (from hard to soft) how the pedals react at each stage of pedal interaction: 1. the initiation; 2. the hold; and 3. the reversal/braking.

 

For pedal response in general (not modes):

Hard: the pedals have maximum resistance and do not move or change their angle

Soft: the pedals have minimal resistance and do move/change their angle

Medium: somewhere in the middle

 

For each manufacturer IMHO they don't tweak their modes the same.

For King Song / InMotion, Hard mode is a harder medium initiation IMHO, with a medium hold / rubbery/gummy bounce-back to the small amount of pedal swing, and a harder medium reversal/braking, so basically equal each direction, tuned as the trick wheels they are most optimally designed to be. The rest of the modes, medium and soft, just soften each stage of these responses down accordingly, albeit the softest KS or IM mode is not super soft IMHO, more like a softer medium mode overall.

For the most recent Ninebot Z, you can tweak 1&2, and 3, independently of each other, where 1&2 can be tuned on the Hardest setting, which becomes like a notch below the hardest EUC mode I've ever tried, all the way down to their "soft" mode, which really feels more like a softer medium response (pedals have a medium amount of downswing), while 3., aka braking, can be tweaked to what feels to me as either semi-hard ("hard brake"), no upswing; or a softer medium (NB termed "brake assist"), medium amount of upswing.

Meanwhile, Gotway modes are way more different, and optimally tuned for forward movement IMHO.

Typical Gotway Hard mode (all Gotway model modes are not consistent), as with the MCM5 or MSX, is just all hard, 1,2&3, pedals basically hold level and do not move.

Typical Gotway Soft mode is where 1 is a soft medium response, 2 is super soft, almost no resistance, with a washy and long down swing action to the pedals, and 3, or the brake, is a medium response.

 

What is all this for?

By selecting modes, you're tweaking how much time you need to react, how much force you need to apply to the machine per degree of acceleration, and how much degree of control you have throughout that acceleration (length of downswing vs motor power), etc.

While many prefer hard modes due to the immediate responsiveness your initial force on the pedals makes, you have less degree of control in acceleration since you need to press hard all the time, and foot fatigue comes into play due to having to press hard all the time, since the pedals have no give.

Conversely, while the large downswing of a Gotway soft mode is unsettling for the unfamiliar, when used properly while operating the wheel always at an angle (not upright), you can get a much more nuanced control in acceleration due to that same downswing "resolution", and the lesser resistance overall requires less force to elicit the same acceleration you get on hard mode, thus less fatigue. Note also though that something like a Gotway soft mode requires more anticipation, as the pedals need to travel more for a given response action (I tend to always be semi-pendulum-ing in anticipation when riding Gotways on soft mode).

An easier way to conceptualize all this I think is to note gear modes on a bicycle. Like Gotway soft mode, higher bicycle gears will make the pedals have less resistance, while the pedals need to travel more revolutions for the same degree of movement, but the initiation of the pedal at the top position before the downswing still has some resistance to the initiation. While an EUC hard mode would be like lower bicycle gears: the pedals need more force/effort overall, and don't travel as far for the same degree of movement.

Edited July 6, 2019 by houseofjob

[Rywokast]

think about it like this, as i think this was its intention when it was implemented into just about every euc ever made.. if you are going over uneven or rocky terrain, the euc would in medium or soft mode sway back and forth a bit, if the pedals are in hard mode the euc will never sway back and forth it remains stationary at level and you are the one doing all the swaying therefore causing the wheel to accelerate and decelerate as every motion from you translated into the wheels movement, there is no grace of a 2 or 4 degree angle before the wheel reacts to your motion... being inexperienced, or hitting something totally unexpected can cause the wheel to in a way buck you off in an extreme case as it remains perfectly flat but the bounce or change in momentum could cause you to lose balance or shift your position on the wheel causing you to fall, in another mode from hard it sways back and forth gently in reaction to these unexpected bumps and changes.. the same for acceleration and braking.. you ever seen a video of someone trying to gun it from still, or slam on the brakes and fall off in the process? it would be harder for those to occur in soft mode as the euc would be leaning forwards or backwards with you and you do not need to apply as much force, as gravity and your body weight play a larger role. the reason experienced riders generally use hard mode is they WANT that instantaneous control, they want to have that immediate torque and dont want to have the delayed reaction times of a medium or soft mode. from day 1 i have exclusively used hard

Edited July 6, 2019 by Rywokast

[Rywokast]

12 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

er, sorry, strongly disagree with this statement, Gotway modes are the most diverse IMHO, while all other MFR modes feel to me like varying degrees of the same thing.

really? i will admit i have only played with the different modes on my KS16S, 18XL, and on my Gotway ACM2, Tesla.. for me on both KS wheels the soft mode felt very squishy, and the soft mode on both gotways felt only slightly different from the hard mode.. soft on the gotways felt to me like medium on the kingsongs, and medium on the gotways felt the same as the hard on the gotways i couldnt really tell a difference.. i know every wheel will be different but these are what im going from, of course everyone should try it on their own wheel to gauge how they like it

[houseofjob]

10 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

really? i will admit i have only played with the different modes on my KS16S, 18XL, and on my Gotway ACM2, Tesla.. for me on both KS wheels the soft mode felt very squishy, and the soft mode on both gotways felt only slightly different from the hard mode.. soft on the gotways felt to me like medium on the kingsongs, and medium on the gotways felt the same as the hard on the gotways i couldnt really tell a difference.. i know every wheel will be different but these are what im going from, of course everyone should try it on their own wheel to gauge how they like it

For KS, I don't see a huge difference in modes, so there is no point to a KS soft mode IMHO.

I was never a fan of the ACM or Tesla, so I can't speak to those Gotway models, as the only times I've been on them was begrudgingly, shooting a video, etc.

Unfortunately, Gotway does not keep these modes consistent across their models. But if you ever get the chance to do a prolonged ride on Gotways like the MCM5 or MSV3 (even the Monster, albeit IMHO the Monster soft mode has even for me, too large a degree of downswing; MSX does not apply here, as that wheel is too hard across the board IMHO), I would encourage you to try and mess around, you might be surprised.

I too was a hard-only mode rider until I wheel swapped for a medium-length ride onto @Tishawn Fahie's Soft mode-d MSV3. Ever since then, every Gotway I ride I will usually set to soft mode, as even the biggest accelerations require much less effort compared to a hard mode (albeit the pedals must downswing farther).

And this is Only Gotway's soft modes, as I've never felt this exact response curve on any other manufacturer's wheel models' soft modes.

Edited July 6, 2019 by houseofjob

[Rywokast]

9 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

For KS, I don't see a huge difference in modes, so there is no point to a KS soft mode IMHO.

I was never a fan of the ACM or Tesla, so I can't speak to those Gotway models, as the only times I've been on them was begrudgingly, shooting a video, etc.

Unfortunately, Gotway does not keep these modes consistent across their models. But if you ever get the chance to do a prolonged ride on Gotways like the MCM5 or MSV3 (even the Monster, albeit IMHO the Monster soft mode has even for me, too large a degree of downswing), I would encourage you to try and mess around, you might be surprised.

I too was a hard-only mode rider until I wheel swapped for a medium-length ride onto @Tishawn Fahie's Soft mode-d MSV3. Ever since then, every Gotway I ride I will usually set to soft mode, as even the biggest accelerations require much less effort compared to a hard mode (albeit the pedals must downswing farther).

And this is Only Gotway's soft modes, as I've never felt this exact response curve on any other manufacturer's wheel models.

aah ok, i think were just speaking from different experiences then.. for me my ks16s i had like 8k km on it in hard mode before i ever thought to myself hey i wonder what this soft mode feels like.. so for the very short amount of time i used it, it was a very weird and probably felt exaggerated.. on the 18xl i was not used to 18 inch EUCs and was swapping modes back and forth but for me it was a large, lumbering heavy wheel so all modes felt equally hard as with my weight being barely over double that of the euc, i have to lean right in to it regardless lol.. the acm2 and tesla both use the tesla motor, and the tesla/acm2 were touted as the hardest pedals on a gotway so far when they were out, to me, they didnt feel like they had much give at all in any mode, but again they were heavier and had a more powerful motor than anything i had ridden up until that point so perhaps that played a part im not sure but yes gotway wheels are not consistent lol, especially seeing as you cant do firmware updates.. for example yea my MSV3 that i had shortly, felt too squishy for me and i didnt like how that wheel rode, mine also had pedal dipping around turns.. i barely rode that thing at all, didnt like it. for me ive always preferred a rock hard platform that i have to put effort in to its just more fun for me, this is my only method of exercise haha

Edited July 6, 2019 by Rywokast

[Patton250]

 I’m incredibly embarrassed to say I didn’t even know these modes existed on my KS’s.  I got pretty disgusted with the apps early on. In fact I can never tell from either the darkness bot or the KS app what battery percentage my KS18XL is at.  It always says 100%. For goodness sake the KS app says the KS18XL is “illegal equipment” lol.  What does that mean?  How hard would it be for these companies to hire someone for a couple of days to develop a really awesome app?  I know regular guys like us in different hobbies that create them all the time. 

 

 Anyway you guys of been incredibly helpful as usual. I’m going to take a ride today and try medium and hard.  One thing is for sure now that I’ve been riding my Nikola my KS16S feels like a toy. It’s weird. 

[Dzlchef]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

One thing is for sure now that I’ve been riding my Nikola my KS16S feels like a toy. It’s weird. 

Yep!  Be careful when hoping on the 16S after the Nikola. Since your mind still is used to the weight of the larger wheel it’s very easy to over turn and dump the lighter wheel. Make sure you start with easy turns and get used to the wheel again before going extreme. 

[Patton250]

Ok let me give you the latest.  I removed the pads because I got some 3M tape in case I wanted to put them back on. I love the wheel without the pads.  I’m glad I rode 30 miles with the pads on it so I know how awesome it is to me without them.  I have settled in at 25 psi as perfect and the setting is on hard. I took your advice and tried medium and soft and both are kind of annoying to me especially soft.  I have to tell you since I made all these adjustments I absolutely love this wheel.  To me it’s the perfect thickness and height.  It cruises like a Cadillac.  Thank you so much for all your advice. Especially the tire pressure.  I even think I can learn to go backwards on this wheel. It balances that well.  The Gyro ( if that’s what you call it )  does make a grinding noise as it’s on. My king song wheels don’t do that. I imagine it’s nothing to worry about. 

[Rywokast]

8 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Ok let me give you the latest.  I removed the pads because I got some 3M tape in case I wanted to put them back on. I love the wheel without the pads.  I’m glad I rode 30 miles with the pads on it so I know how awesome it is to me without them.  I have settled in at 25 psi as perfect and the setting is on hard. I took your advice and tried medium and soft and both are kind of annoying to me especially soft.  I have to tell you since I made all these adjustments I absolutely love this wheel.  To me it’s the perfect thickness and height.  It cruises like a Cadillac.  Thank you so much for all your advice. Especially the tire pressure.  I even think I can learn to go backwards on this wheel. It balances that well.  The Gyro ( if that’s what you call it )  does make a grinding noise as it’s on. My king song wheels don’t do that. I imagine it’s nothing to worry about. 

dont worry about the noise gotway motors do that especially while going very slow they have a bit of a rumble

[Patton250]

2 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

dont worry about the noise gotway motors do that especially while going very slow they have a bit of a rumble

 Thank you man that’s exactly what I was hoping to hear from somebody. Almost word for word. 

[Rywokast]

Just now, Patton250 said:

 Thank you man that’s exactly what I was hoping to hear from somebody. Almost word for word. 

 you can notice this with most euc motors while trolleying or standing still on top of it.. its just the motor turning.. all eucs do it audibly (very quiet usually, can just feel it) while switching directions, its just gotway motors are usually less polite about it xD

[Patton250]

 Took it out for a nice 20 mile run. Everything is smooth except it still bounces especially at lower speeds.  Up-and-down rapidly 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock about a quarter of an inch each way. 

 

 

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 Took it out for a nice 20 mile run. Everything is smooth except it still bounces especially at lower speeds.  Up-and-down rapidly 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock about a quarter of an inch each way. 

 

 

There isn't much to figure out here. If this was my investigation, I would lay the wheel on it's side and measure the distance to the rim from a fixed reference point. Thus I would map the wheel and see if there's a problem there.

Then I would do the same but this time I would measure to the tire, thus determining if the tire is out of round.

What other possibilities are there 

[meepmeepmayer]

That bouncing really shouldn't be there. Could you make some videos that show it closer?

[Patton250]

25 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

There isn't much to figure out here. If this was my investigation, I would lay the wheel on it's side and measure the distance to the rim from a fixed reference point. Thus I would map the wheel and see if there's a problem there.

Then I would do the same but this time I would measure to the tire, thus determining if the tire is out of round.

What other possibilities are there 

 I don’t know. I have never had to troubleshoot anything like this before. I will try what you said. Thanks. 

23 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

That bouncing really shouldn't be there. Could you make some videos that show it closer?

 Absolutely. . I’m charging it overnight and after church tomorrow I will do what Marty said to do and then take it for a ride. I’ll do a closer video. 

[Rywokast]

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

 I don’t know. I have never had to troubleshoot anything like this before. I will try what you said. Thanks. 

 Absolutely. . I’m charging it overnight and after church tomorrow I will do what Marty said to do and then take it for a ride. I’ll do a closer video. 

it would be cool if you could also take a close up video of the tire, and you slowly spinning it all the way around, that way someone here might be able to spot some potential issue

[Patton250]

10 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

it would be cool if you could also take a close up video of the tire, and you slowly spinning it all the way around, that way someone here might be able to spot some potential issue

 Absolutely. I’ll do that tomorrow for sure. Thanks 

[Patton250]

 OK here we go. I think after you watch this it’s obvious things are not even. How do I fix this? 

 

 

[Nils]

21 hours ago, Rywokast said:

dont worry about the noise gotway motors do that especially while going very slow they have a bit of a rumble

I like to think of it as the tummy rumble of a hungry beast.