mezzanine Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Just now, jdsr4c said: The key phrase here is definitely "early adopters". I'm a 30 year old IT professional from St. Louis. I think I understood what I was getting into when I randomly purchased a $1500 'wheel'. I don't know a single person who has an EUC, nor have I ever seen one in person until I bought this ACMv2. We are essentially pioneers of this transportation technology. I'm just happy I can get replacement parts free of charge under warranty. I am also happy that I can now post more than a couple posts a day on this forum, because it was pretty discouraging trying to troubleshoot this foreign machine with zero literature and a limited amount of posts on one of the only resources available. I plan on learning as much as I can about this thing and fixing/modding it as necessary. That's just my nature, and that is part of why I felt comfortable enough buying it. Some posters like to represent that KingSong wheels are as likely to fail to as Gotway wheels based on their own, single, anecdotal experience, while ignoring the published data by two of the largest sellers of EUCs in the world that paint a dramatically different picture and carry a lot more statistical validity. And they will insist to you that they are objective. It's because they're emotionally invested in the Gotway brand like it is their home-town sports team. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted May 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2018 48 minutes ago, mezzanine said: Some posters like to represent that KingSong wheels are as likely to fail to as Gotway wheels based on their own, single, anecdotal experience, while ignoring the published data by two of the largest sellers of EUCs in the world that paint a dramatically different picture and carry a lot more statistical validity. And they will insist to you that they are objective. It's because they're emotionally invested in the Gotway brand like it is their home-town sports team. That's me I really do think that you conflate my enthusiasm for Gotway wheels with emotional attachment. When appropriate I expose all the dirt on Gotway wheels, but yeah, I'm not into spending my days trashing them. I'll leave that to others. I try not to trash any wheel, but some people enjoy hating certain wheels. I do love Gotway wheels. But I also love my KS14S and will soon love my Z10. I'm not here to protect newbies like you think we all should. Everyone's an adult. I give my opinion and assume that newbies and the like will use their God given brain to judge what I, you, and everyone else says here and elsewhere to form their own opinions. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdsr4c Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 9 hours ago, mezzanine said: Some posters like to represent that KingSong wheels are as likely to fail to as Gotway wheels based on their own, single, anecdotal experience, while ignoring the published data by two of the largest sellers of EUCs in the world that paint a dramatically different picture and carry a lot more statistical validity. And they will insist to you that they are objective. It's because they're emotionally invested in the Gotway brand like it is their home-town sports team. Hard to argue with data. Oh well. Hopefully the maintenance and downtime for this machine will be minimal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 19 hours ago, jdsr4c said: Thanks! Now I just need to figure out how to prevent this from happening again. I suppose some strong tape could do the trick by holding the cables far away from the blue part. That, and/or a heatshield sleeve for the cable. Can anyone elaborate on what the blue part is exactly? It says BT module, bluetooth? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdsr4c Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 hour ago, steve454 said: It says BT module, bluetooth? Ah good call I didn't even think about that. That is definitely it. Maybe the capacitors are what heated it up to the point to where it singed the red wire. I just don't see any reason why a bluetooth card would get that hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, jdsr4c said: Ah good call I didn't even think about that. That is definitely it. Maybe the capacitors are what heated it up to the point to where it singed the red wire. I just don't see any reason why a bluetooth card would get that hot. Wire didn't look bad enough in the photo as far as I could tell to have a broken connection. I'm not sure you've found the problem yet. Maybe I just couldn't see the photo well enough. I guess you're saying in your description that the red wire is severed. Sounds like it acted as a fuse and just burned up if that's the case. something else must be shorted. Are you going to try to reconnect the wire and see if it powers up? Edited May 21, 2018 by FreeRide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdsr4c Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, FreeRide said: Wire didn't look bad enough in the photo as far as I could tell to have a broken connection. I'm not sure you've found the problem yet. Maybe I just couldn't see the photo well enough. I guess you're saying in your description that the red wire is severed. Sounds like it acted as a fuse and just burned up if that's the case. something else must be shorted. Are you going to try to reconnect the wire and see if it powers up? Look at the photo closer. You can see the hole in the red hose of the cable, but there is no wire in there. That's because an 80% chunk of the wire inside of the hose is missing. You can also see the burn mark where the red cable was pushed up against the bluetooth card. I had to lift the cable off of the card to notice the hole. It was very snug against it. I don't claim to be an expert, but my initial thought was that the bluetooth card burned a hole nearly straight through the red cable. That, or maybe the current in the red wire being pressed up against a bluetooth card spiked some seriously high temperatures right at point of contact. What you are proposing is that the red wire just burned a hole into itself? Can wires do that? Edited May 21, 2018 by jdsr4c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, jdsr4c said: Look at the photo closer. You can see the hole in the red hose of the cable, but there is no wire in there. That's because an 80% chunk of the wire inside of the hose is missing. You can also see the burn mark where the red cable was pushed up against the bluetooth card. I had to lift the cable off of the card to notice the hole. It was very snug against it. I don't claim to be an expert, but my initial thought was that the bluetooth card burned a hole nearly straight through the red cable. That, or maybe the current in the red wire being pressed up against a bluetooth card spiked some seriously high temperatures right at point of contact. What you are proposing is that the red wire just burned a hole into itself? Can wires do that? I see. Sorry the picture is not too clear on my computer. I can see what you are saying it does look like the wire shielding is hollow inside right now. I would say that there is a possibility that the test point it looks like on the Bluetooth board penetrated the positive wire shielding, which cause a short, but it seems remote as their looks to be no burn marks around the test-point comparable to that which would be required to burn up the wire. I think it is more likely the wire got really hot as it burned itself up, and since the shielding was toughing the BT card it attached it self to that as it melted. It takes a lot of current to burn that wire. Yes it can happen, not that uncommon on something like an EUC which can draw a large current from the batteries for considerable time. If so the question would be what caused it to heat up, regular use or some fault. Most likely it was a circuit fault, or an already damaged wire. Do the standard manual wheel spin test and check the MOSFETs. Others can probably help more with the details on where to look for that wheel. Edited May 21, 2018 by FreeRide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) The two black and red cables are the power cables from the battery to the board. One got disconnected by the damage. Might just be unlucky chafing (and the lack of any cable management). Are you sure that this is no heat damage? Is there damage on the black cable, too, or does it just look like this in the photo (might just be the water resistant coating of the board doing these "bubbles"). Also check your motor cables - coming out of the axle in the black sleeve, where the sleeve ends and the wires go their separate ways and the motor cables are bent 180°, then the cylindrical golden connectors along the motor cables where they connect to the ends from the board. Make sure everything looks fine and you see no heat damage. Especially where the cables or connectors touch anything, including the side panel when it's on. Also, with such a new wheel, let Jason do the repair. Not your job to exchange a board now. Unless you really don't mind and want to do it yourself. Edited May 24, 2018 by meepmeepmayer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdsr4c Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: The two black and red cables are the power cables from the battery to the board. One got disconnected by the damage. Might just be unlucky chafing (and the lack of any cable management). Are you sure that this is no heat damage? Is there damage on the black cable, too, or does it just look like this in the photo (might just be the water resistant coating of the board doing these "bubbles"). Also check your motor cables - coming out of the axle in the black sleeve, where the sleeve ends and the wires go their separate ways and the motor cables are bent 180°, then the cylindrical golden connectors along the motor cables where they connect to the ends from the board. Make sure everything looks fine and you see no heat damage. Especially where the cables or connectors touch anything, including the side panel when it's on. Also, with such a new wheel, let Jason do the repair. Not your job to exchange a board now. Unless you really don't mind and want to do it yourself. Thanks for the descriptive feedback. I definitely agree that it is from lack of cable management. If the control board cable wasn't snugly pressed up against the Bluetooth card this might not have happened. But who knows really, it is all just my speculation. I am no EUC expert or electrical engineer. The damage on the control board cables doesn't matter anymore, since I just replaced the whole board. Currently, the machine turns on now but it is impossible to calibrate. I prefer to do it myself so I can learn for future scenarios, but I have no problem when the time comes to send it back in to Jason, which will be tomorrow morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) On 5/20/2018 at 3:33 AM, jdsr4c said: Thanks! Now I just need to figure out how to prevent this from happening again. I suppose some strong tape could do the trick by holding the cables far away from the blue part. That, and/or a heatshield sleeve for the cable. Can anyone elaborate on what the blue part is exactly? Like you already figured out (reading on in the thread), it's the Bluetooth-module. For whatever reason, it seems that Gotways use the basic Chinese cheapo BT-module (or at least the same baseboard): That's a slightly different version, and there are others, but they all seem to use the same pinout, the actual BT-module chip maybe different from board to board. Not that there's anything really wrong with using such, but why not just integrate the BT-circuitry directly on the mainboard itself? Maybe it's cheaper to use separate modules or they ran out of space... Looking at your picture, it seems that the GND-pin went through the red (battery positive) wire. That's definitely a short circuit and can cause a lot of heat. Battery BMSs should cut the power in case of short-circuit though... hard to say what else possibly got fried just from the (somewhat) blurry picture. Rehab1 sent me his dead ACM board for inspection, it died when he reconnected the battery, the MCU was dead (several pins in short circuit)... Edited May 27, 2018 by esaj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourtoys7 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Any wheel can fail, but look how many people ride Gotway, so yes, failure rate might/ is higher. Considering this I would ask anyone, do yo wanna go Safely 25-35 km/h or try a company that pushing the envelope and able to reach 50-55 km or higher. I had MCM3 (A+), ACM (A+), Msuper v3s (A+) and now monster (A+). I am very, very happy with my wheels.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jdsr4c Posted August 13, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2018 It has been awhile, so I am going to provide an update. After replacing the control board twice, I lost interest in riding for a couple of months. Finally, I decided to hop back on again over this past weekend and ride with my friend who was on his Sur Ron electric dirt bike. Needless to say, after riding for about 30 minutes the control board fried once again, leaving the machine inoperable. I emailed eWheels.com and this time they are going to do a complete overhaul and replace the motor along with the control board. Man, what an absolute pain this thing has been. Despite the 2 month long inactivity, I have technically only ridden it for about 2 weeks, and I am going on my fourth control board. I would love to get rid of it or trade it in for another model or brand, possibly even a completely different electric transportation device. At this time, I just don't think I could recommend an EUC to anyone. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 You've just had a bad string of luck unfortunately. Most people have a great experience on their wheels if they get a good working one, and I think that's the majority. I've had three wheels over the past 3 years, and all of them have been working 100% fine. <knock on wood > Hopefully eWheels will get you sorted out, and you'll be riding carefree like the rest of us. It would be a shame to put a premature end to all the possible fun you could be having just because of some weird fault. There could be some wire wear inside the motor shorting out some wires leading to control board failure. That melting red wire on top of the BT module indicates something is getting too toasty for some reason. Maybe it's a bad connector that has a higher resistance through the red wire leading to the overheat? Hard to say. Patience is a virtue that is well rewarded most of the time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted August 14, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, jdsr4c said: It has been awhile, so I am going to provide an update. After replacing the control board twice, I lost interest in riding for a couple of months. Finally, I decided to hop back on again over this past weekend and ride with my friend who was on his Sur Ron electric dirt bike. Needless to say, after riding for about 30 minutes the control board fried once again, leaving the machine inoperable. I emailed eWheels.com and this time they are going to do a complete overhaul and replace the motor along with the control board. Man, what an absolute pain this thing has been. Despite the 2 month long inactivity, I have technically only ridden it for about 2 weeks, and I am going on my fourth control board. I would love to get rid of it or trade it in for another model or brand, possibly even a completely different electric transportation device. At this time, I just don't think I could recommend an EUC to anyone. You've heard of lemons right? You shouldn't broadly paint the entire EUC scene based on your bad experience, with one wheel. Certainly you recognize that there's a vast group of people enjoying and using their wheels on a daily basis. So please, don't write off EUC's or the ACM2. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 2 hours ago, jdsr4c said: I emailed eWheels.com and this time they are going to do a complete overhaul and replace the motor along with the control board. Sorry for your difficulties . @Marty Backe and @Hunka Hunka Burning Loveare correct that you shouldn’t write off EUCs due to this streak of misfortunate failures. Once the motor and control board are replaced your wheel should be in excellent shape. It’ll be interesting to hear what Jason finds out after he completes his forensic examination. We all can learn from these unfortunate failures. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 That ACM v2 is a fantastic vehicle and a great long distance Wheel. However, have you thought of the KS18L? If Jason cant fix this and you want a replacement that is just as long range(Nearly) and nimble, and has bluetooth speakers to listen to the ballgame on. They both have usb to recharge your phone. They both have adequate headlights, and they are both around 50lbs. The Kingsong will be terrific on those STL streets and potholes with the 18” tire. The trolley handle is perfect for bungeeing your IT smock and wristpads to along with your super-Laptop for easy corporate navigation inside the offices. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said: The Kingsong will be terrific on those STL streets and potholes with the 18” tire. Ugh...potholes....my nemesis! Edited August 14, 2018 by Rehab1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 27 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said: That ACM v2 is a fantastic vehicle and a great long distance Wheel. However, have you thought of the KS18L? If Jason cant fix this and you want a replacement that is just as long range(Nearly) and nimble, and has bluetooth speakers to listen to the ballgame on. They both have usb to recharge your phone. They both have adequate headlights, and they are both around 50lbs. The Kingsong will be terrific on those STL streets and potholes with the 18” tire. The trolley handle is perfect for bungeeing your IT smock and wristpads to along with your super-Laptop for easy corporate navigation inside the offices. In no way is the 18L a long range wheel like the ACM2. The ACM2 has ~50% more battery capacity with little speed throttling throughout its operational range. Otherwise, nice commentary 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: You've heard of lemons right? You shouldn't broadly paint the entire EUC scene based on your bad experience, with one wheel. Certainly you recognize that there's a vast group of people enjoying and using their wheels on a daily basis. So please, don't write off EUC's or the ACM2. What he said. Every major automobile manufacturer has had recalls in the tens of thousands, yet no one writes off cars or a particular company. Even if a company has a fantastic 1-2% failure rate, that is still going to cause an unlucky few to have a negative experience. I am one of the many having an absolute ball everyday possible with my eucs, Eucs aren't for everyone which is also part of my attraction. Sorry for your frustrating experience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mark Lee Posted August 14, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2018 FWIW if I was to pick from Tesla, MSX and ACM2 (which I own and ride) to take to unknown group ride. My top gun is ACM2 have over 500 miles on it... It would be a shame if you don't get to realize what an excellent wheel ACM2 is... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted August 14, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2018 On 5/28/2018 at 4:52 AM, yourtoys7 said: Any wheel can fail, but look how many people ride Gotway, so yes, failure rate might/ is higher. The failure rate doesn’t go up with the amount of wheels. 30% is 30% no matter how many wheels are in motion. There’s no way around it, reliability of past Gotways was poor. And no single person’s experience can change that. But the build quality of Gotways has been improved a good bit. The OP is a victim of very bad luck, and I think the underlying issue is yet to be found. I too hope he gets a working wheel and his share of the endless fun it can provide! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jdsr4c Posted August 14, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Sorry for your difficulties . @Marty Backe and @Hunka Hunka Burning Loveare correct that you shouldn’t write off EUCs due to this streak of misfortunate failures. Once the motor and control board are replaced your wheel should be in excellent shape. It’ll be interesting to hear what Jason finds out after he completes his forensic examination. We all can learn from these unfortunate failures. Nah, I won't totally write them off. Despite getting a malfunctioning machine, they are just unique and not for everyone. I personally couldn't stop riding it when I first got it. 2 hours ago, Stan Onymous said: That ACM v2 is a fantastic vehicle and a great long distance Wheel. However, have you thought of the KS18L? If Jason cant fix this and you want a replacement that is just as long range(Nearly) and nimble, and has bluetooth speakers to listen to the ballgame on. They both have usb to recharge your phone. They both have adequate headlights, and they are both around 50lbs. The Kingsong will be terrific on those STL streets and potholes with the 18” tire. The trolley handle is perfect for bungeeing your IT smock and wristpads to along with your super-Laptop for easy corporate navigation inside the offices. I have thought about other wheels, but as of right now, if I were to buy another battery powered vehicle, it would likely be a Sur-Ron or something similar. A totally different machine and about twice as expensive as a top of the line EUC, but the safety and ability on city streets (or anywhere really) just doesn't even compare. lol @ IT smock and wristpads. That all being said, I hope I can get this thing back and operating reliably. Edited August 14, 2018 by jdsr4c 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 On 5/19/2018 at 10:03 AM, Shad0z said: Its just important to choose a known seller. And then ask about warranty and what to do if the wheel fails. In this case i think my seller just said that i should contact him if i had issues Out of interest, what seller was this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lutalo Posted August 15, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 15, 2018 On 5/19/2018 at 10:58 PM, Marty Backe said: And what will you do if your KingSong wheel fails? My KS14S failed and I was shipped a new control board. Note, my KS14S is not made by Gotway. Should I not recommend KingSong wheels. I know there are some members (not you) that experienced one Gotway failure and then became Gotway haters because of it. I don't hate KingSong, just to be clear. We are all early adopters. There are no corner EUC shops like for cars or bicycles. I'm afraid if a person wants to partake in the joys of EUC riding they need to be prepared for some self-maintenance. Fortunately, much of it can be done with a screw driver. Maybe, but it seems prudent for early adopters in the pre-purchase research phase of to consider responsibly produced and credible failure rate data as part of their choice matrix. I do not buy the whole "all the wheels can fail so it doesn't matter which one you buy" attitude. When it's my $1500 to $2000 on deck my goal is to mitigate 'early adopter risk' to the greatest degree possible. When objectively measured failure rates are not equal, 'likely to fail' becomes a very important metric in my decision matrix. I believe you when you say that you don't hate Kingsong; however, you do seem to frequently point out that they are not perfect wheels. Although I agree with that assessment, I am not convinced of its value in pointing out each time someone mentions that a Gotway has failed. Kingsong is not perfect and the historic data available to potential buyers shows that Gotway has been even less perfect. It is intelligent for a potential buyer to take this information into consideration when making a risky purchase on an expensive hobby. I truly hope and believe that Gotway has in fact made the QC turnaround that its advocates proclaim. When that claim is supported with objective data; and not the subjective individual assessments and tainted proclamations of its fans, I will also be a believer. Until then, it is what it is. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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