Fully replacing a bike for commuting? Beginner questions.

[LZmiljoona]

Hello dear EUCists,

before anything I want to say I know that a lot of these questions have been asked before (I have used the search function). But on some of them I couldn't find much information. Anyway I have this unique set of questions that I would like to ask, and I think sometimes it doesn't hurt discussing things more than once or twice
Still, feel free to reference/link other threads.

So, here goes.

I live in a medium city (~250.000 inhabitants - yes, the dot is a thousands separator) (see my bio to the left) in which I use a bicycle pretty much as my only mode of transport. I cycle to university campuses (campi? campodes?) every day, which are between 2 and ~6km away from my home, so that means cycling up to 15km a day or more back and forth.

There are bike lanes/paths for about 50-70% of routes, which means the rest are roads shared with cars. I would like the bicycle(/EUC, ...) infrastructure to be at least as good as the car infrastructure - but it isn't, and that's another topic.

Anyway, cycling works out pretty well. But the thing is: I don't really like cycling. That is solely because I feel like it's not comfortable (even more sitting...) and good for my body (bad posture). On the other hand, walking is one of my favorite activities! (hiking and long distance hiking). So - I would like to walk instead of cycle, but at the speed of cycling!

So I googled, found electric skateboards, scooters, and finally EUCs - which seem to come closest to that, plus have other advantages - huge range, large wheel (bumps/offroad), small form factor, fun, cool (though slightly quirky) looking.

But I would like it to be able to fully replace my bicycle, and I see some issues with that:

• Winter. I ride my bike all winter, and especially in winter I'd prefer not to. Cars (even electric ones, of course) and bicycles work in winter, my EUC would have to, too! Shorter range is no problem if normal range is 60km+. I only usually need 20km max (although more is nice, maybe for longer tours on weekends?). I'm ok with alway storing my EUC inside where it's warm, but I gotta be able to use it for at least 30min, better up to an hour outside (safely). Temperatures can drop to -20°C max, mostly not under -5°C. (-4°F / 23°F respectively). I would also have to practice in winter if I bought now! (So, no continuous battery use in low temperatures as long as I can't ride well)
• Weather. Again, nobody would buy a car that breaks when you use it in the rain. I get it if the EUC is only being used as a toy for fun like people who only skate in nice weather at a skate park, but I thought EUCs & the like are being targeted more and more for everyday transportation. That the road can be slippery and thus you should ride more slowly/carefully during rain is obvious - same goes for bikes & cars.
• Salt (side effect of winter). Ok - when there is fresh snow on the streets & bike paths, I don't ride my bike either. But we don't get a lot of snow here and when we do, a day after the snowfall, the roads are clear again because of salt. Same as before - cars and bikes can of course be used on salted roads. Corrosion is there, but I've had my bike for ~8 years now, use it all the time. I'm okay with a bit of maintenance - more oiling of the chain, new chain after a couple years etc.; I'd be okay with a bit of maintenance with the EUC, too (how, though?).
• Safety. As stated above, I'd frequently have to use roads (or sidewalks, if that's better - but at 20km/h, I doubt it). I have to ride after dark (especially in winter - gets dark at 4-5pm). I don't want too much extra hassle - skating helmet is ok, but a lot of extras (knee-, elbow-, wristguards, full face mountainbiking helmet) would really annoy me. I'd have to feel as safe as I feel now on my bicycle (very safe! shouldn't feel like an adventure, should feel like commuting (though I do like adventures)).
• Safety (again). I understand that EUCs are unregulated. On my bike, I have everything under my control - everything is powered by me. I can't have my vehicle suddenly stop working at 30 km/h (or at any other speed). I want to be able to trust it so much I don't ever think about it.
• Exercise. I'm a huge bicycle advocate and I think the health benefits of bike commuting are great - in stressful times, I'm still getting exercise every day because of it. How do EUCs compare - do you feel like you are getting exercise riding for 20-30 minutes? I know this is kinda weird to ask, because I want to switch to a motorized vehicle and still want exercise - but remember, I'd just like to "walk at the speed of cycling" . It's not the most important aspect, though.
• Difficulty. I'm absolutely willing to learn a fun new skill and put some time in it! But if I practice every other day and still can't commute as safely as with my bike (on roads & bike paths) after a month or more, I think it'd be too much.
• Law... or maybe not. I usually feel really uncomfortable doing illegal things, even if the law is silly (wild camping in the alps, ...), but I've only read good things from Austrian EUCists. It'd be an absolute bummer though if I bought a 1700€ wheel and got "caught", had to pay a penalty fee and couldn't commute on it anymore

The wheel that appeals to me the most and pretty much the only one that really appeals to me is the Kingsong 16s. The InMotion V8 looks nice, too, but the range is limited. I don't care about speeds above 30 or 35km/h (19 / 22mph respectively). I want a safe, high quality, maybe good looking wheel with great range (I'm a mac user, too - I don't need max specs, I want something that works reliably and worry-free for a long time - have had my mac for almost 8 years ).

Would the KS16s fulfill all of my above criteria?

I would really love to start wheeling around, but at a pricepoint of 1700€, it just has to work out, I don't want to just "try it out and see if I like it" or just be able to commute in nice, warm weather when I don't mind biking so much anyway. Starting with a cheaper wheel doesn't appeal either, because it's still a few hundred €s and if I don't like it, that's a lot, and if I do - I could have started with a more expensive wheel anyway. Plus as I said, I only want to ride a safe, high quality wheel.

 

Sorry for the wall of text and bless ya soul if you dug through it and decide to reply  

 

Thank you and best regards from the country of Dirndls and Lederhosen,

LZ

[RayRay]

47 minutes ago, LZmiljoona said:

On the other hand, walking is one of my favorite activities! (hiking and long distance hiking). So - I would like to walk instead of cycle, but at the speed of cycling!

Just to get the discussion going... Yes, you can walk euc's around by their trolley handles these days (but this isn't the goal.)

It's more like: 'standing at the speed of cycling' - as opposed to walking; (which is considered the option of last resort). 

[WARPed1701D]

I can't speak about winter riding in general but -20C is damn cold. Standing inactive on a wheel with a 30kph breeze going by for 30 minutes in those temperatures is going to be brutal. The cells will likely cool quickly in those temperatures and not only range will drop but also the ability of the wheel to deliver high currents. I would want the biggest battery i could find to spread the load across the packs to reduce the risk of the wheel dumping you due to limited power delivery. In that respect i don't believe the KS16S is sufficient. Please note that i live in Florida though so this is theory. Many members here do operate in cold conditions and can confirm or deny this.

What I can talk about though is exercise. I love my wheel, but i miss my bike. When i rode to work each day i was getting 4 hours of cardio per week for no extra time input. Since i stared wheeling in the summer I've only cycled to work 4 or 5 times. I've not put on weight but I am more stressed and have been more sick over that time. I think this is a direct result of no longer getting that exercise. I plan to try to mix my cycling with my unicycle but with the wheel sitting there it is much easier to just ride the wheel. The loss of exercise is my biggest issue with wheeling so far and i have little spare time to dedicate to a gym to correct matters. I'm still deciding how to best resolve this conflict. When you are learning to ride a wheel it will seem like hard work and lots of exercise but once you have mastered it riding is very easy and you won't get much if any cardio in normal riding conditions. Trail riding may be different but i suspect you'd rather walk on those like me.

[LZmiljoona]

1 hour ago, RayRay said:

Just to get the discussion going... Yes, you can walk euc's around by their trolley handles these days (but this isn't the goal.)

It's more like: 'standing at the speed of cycling' - as opposed to walking; (which is considered the option of last resort). 

Maybe the way I expressed myself wasn't really sensical, of course it's not like walking. But it's not sitting! I'd rather be standing than sitting, that was the point

59 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

I can't speak about winter riding in general but -20C is damn cold. Standing inactive on a wheel with a 30kph breeze going by for 30 minutes in those temperatures is going to be brutal. The cells will likely cool quickly in those temperatures and not only range will drop but also the ability of the wheel to deliver high currents. I would want the biggest battery i could find to spread the load across the packs to reduce the risk of the wheel dumping you due to limited power delivery. In that respect i don't believe the KS16S is sufficient. Please note that i live in Florida though so this is theory. Many members here do operate in cold conditions and can confirm or deny this.

What I can talk about though is exercise. I love my wheel, but i miss my bike. When i rode to work each day i was getting 4 hours of cardio per week for no extra time input. Since i stared wheeling in the summer I've only cycled to work 4 or 5 times. I've not put on weight but I am more stressed and have been more sick over that time. I think this is a direct result of no longer getting that exercise. I plan to try to mix my cycling with my unicycle but with the wheel sitting there it is much easier to just ride the wheel. The loss of exercise is my biggest issue with wheeling so far and i have little spare time to dedicate to a gym to correct matters. I'm still deciding how to best resolve this conflict. When you are learning to ride a wheel it will seem like hard work and lots of exercise but once you have mastered it riding is very easy and you won't get much if any cardio in normal riding conditions. Trail riding may be different but i suspect you'd rather walk on those like me.

It hardly ever gets below -5, maybe a few days or weeks where it reaches between -8 and -3 in the mornings. It can potentially reach -20 in January or February, which I've only had a couple times in my life - cycling still isn't a problem at this point, but of course for riding I would cocoon myself with layers and a down jacket.

[xebeche]

Hello @LZmiljoona. Since I live relatively near you (Zagreb/Croatia), in similar climate conditions and have been often using my wheel for commuting during last year (2500 km so far), maybe I can give you some insights and answers to your questions:

3 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

Winter. I ride my bike all winter, and especially in winter I'd prefer not to. Cars (even electric ones, of course) and bicycles work in winter, my EUC would have to, too! Shorter range is no problem if normal range is 60km+. I only usually need 20km max (although more is nice, maybe for longer tours on weekends?). I'm ok with alway storing my EUC inside where it's warm, but I gotta be able to use it for at least 30min, better up to an hour outside (safely). Temperatures can drop to -20°C max, mostly not under -5°C. (-4°F / 23°F respectively). I would also have to practice in winter if I bought now! (So, no continuous battery use in low temperatures as long as I can't ride well)

Wheel with a large enough battery like KS16S that you choose, should be able to comfortably give you desired range of 20km per charge even in winter conditions. In average I have noticed approximately 30% reduction in range during winter days, up to 40-50% when riding in sub zero C temperatures, but my wheel has small 480wh battery. As @WARPed1701D mentioned, riding EUC can't really be considered a serious physical exercise and I don't find it very comfortable in temperatures under 5C. It is difficult to stay warm in cold temperatures even with some serious clothing because you don't really move much, except balancing your weight on the EUC.

3 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

Weather. Again, nobody would buy a car that breaks when you use it in the rain. I get it if the EUC is only being used as a toy for fun like people who only skate in nice weather at a skate park, but I thought EUCs & the like are being targeted more and more for everyday transportation. That the road can be slippery and thus you should ride more slowly/carefully during rain is obvious - same goes for bikes & cars.

You certainly have to be more careful when the roads are slippery after the rain or snow, but with some sensible riding and perhaps winter tires for winter it is not a big problem.

3 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

Salt (side effect of winter). Ok - when there is fresh snow on the streets & bike paths, I don't ride my bike either. But we don't get a lot of snow here and when we do, a day after the snowfall, the roads are clear again because of salt. Same as before - cars and bikes can of course be used on salted roads. Corrosion is there, but I've had my bike for ~8 years now, use it all the time. I'm okay with a bit of maintenance - more oiling of the chain, new chain after a couple years etc.; I'd be okay with a bit of maintenance with the EUC, too (how, though?).

I wouldn't worry too much about salt. You can carefully clean the wheel with some warm water and apply some WD40 on the axle. I would say that bicycles, especially ones with chains, require way more maintenance than good quality EUC.

3 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

Safety. As stated above, I'd frequently have to use roads (or sidewalks, if that's better - but at 20km/h, I doubt it). I have to ride after dark (especially in winter - gets dark at 4-5pm). I don't want too much extra hassle - skating helmet is ok, but a lot of extras (knee-, elbow-, wristguards, full face mountainbiking helmet) would really annoy me. I'd have to feel as safe as I feel now on my bicycle (very safe! shouldn't feel like an adventure, should feel like commuting (though I do like adventures)).

Helmet, knee and wrist guards are mandatory if you want to avoid serious injuries. Even if you are experienced rider you don't want to go out without helmet and wrist guards - if you check the forum you can easily find out why. When it's cold outside I happily use my motorcycle jacket with built in shoulder, elbow, back and chest guards + gloves '+ regular bicycle helmet with winter padding.

3 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

Safety (again). I understand that EUCs are unregulated. On my bike, I have everything under my control - everything is powered by me. I can't have my vehicle suddenly stop working at 30 km/h (or at any other speed). I want to be able to trust it so much I don't ever think about it.

At this moment there is no chance that EUC can be considered as safe as a bicycle. First - bicycle has one major built in redundancy compared to EUC - two wheels - meaning that you don't fall if you stop pedaling. On EUC you fall down instantly if the power is cut during riding for whatever reason. If you go slow you might run off, but if you are going fast you could find your self in some serious trouble. There are many topics on this forum covering these situations and accidents. It might get better / more safe in the future with some redundancy features on new wheels, but no wheel on the market at this moment has any actually. 

3 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

Exercise. I'm a huge bicycle advocate and I think the health benefits of bike commuting are great - in stressful times, I'm still getting exercise every day because of it. How do EUCs compare - do you feel like you are getting exercise riding for 20-30 minutes? I know this is kinda weird to ask, because I want to switch to a motorized vehicle and still want exercise - but remember, I'd just like to "walk at the speed of cycling" . It's not the most important aspect, though.

Again safe win for the bicycle. EUC riding is by no mean comparable to exercise you get by pedaling a bicycle. It's very enjoyable though

3 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

Difficulty. I'm absolutely willing to learn a fun new skill and put some time in it! But if I practice every other day and still can't commute as safely as with my bike (on roads & bike paths) after a month or more, I think it'd be too much.

Learning curve is relatively steep but I think that anyone can learn to ride EUC just like the bicycle. Although to be able to safely commute you will need some EUC specific experience, which only comes with time and traveled kilometers.

3 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

Law... or maybe not. I usually feel really uncomfortable doing illegal things, even if the law is silly (wild camping in the alps, ...), but I've only read good things from Austrian EUCists. It'd be an absolute bummer though if I bought a 1700€ wheel and got "caught", had to pay a penalty fee and couldn't commute on it anymore

This one depends on local Austrian laws. I was in Graz this spring and saw many different types of personal electric vehicles on the streets and bike lanes. Presumably local laws are favorable or the cops really don't care? It' like that in Zagreb - there is no specific law for EUC so they could even be considered illegal, but cops really don't care if you ride carefully and have protection and visibility equipment.

All above being said - I prefer my pedal assist e-bike for daily commute during the winter. Far from it that it's not doable during the winter - just look at the various northern guys from Russia, Scandinavia and others riding through all kind of crazy winter conditions. I simply consider e-bike as safer in cold/wet/ice conditions and I'm definitely feeling warmer and have more exercise on the e-bike compared to EUC. Therefore now I rarely choose to ride on my EUC when it's below 5C. During warm months it's 50-50 between EUC and e-bike. EUC is great for getting around the city because it's more practical, you can take it with you anywhere and don't need to worry about storage or theft. Oh and above all riding EUC is really a great fun!  

[LanghamP]

You won't get any cardio or for that matter exercise at all from riding a wheel. Get a wheel with the understanding that you'd have to work out to make up for the jellyfying effects of your wheel. One gets a wheel in order to do less not more work.

I think bringing your wheel inside each night would make you OK for freezing temperatures. I've ridden in below freezing with both my KS16s and my MSuper with no apparent degradation in 30+ minutes, and when bringing the wheels inside they seem to be the same temperature they were originally.

However, riding a wheel that was stored at below freezing is a really bad idea, they seem to go bonkers at those temperatures and take many hours to warm up and recover.

A huge increase in comfort was using a full on sportbike helmet. Such a helmet doesn't allow much wind to blow onto you, and therefore greatly increases cold comfort.

[steve454]

3 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

but remember, I'd just like to "walk at the speed of cycling"

This might be good, but if it was electrically assisted might be better.https://www.elliptigo.com/

[The Fat Unicyclist]

This won't be as organised as your original post (my brain gets too distracted by shiny things), but here are some thoughts... 

When I get asked if riding an EUC is difficult, my response is, "If you can learn to ride a bike, you can learn to ride an EUC. It is different, but no harder." The biggest challenge most of us face is that we have had to self-teach. When you are alone, trying what you get told on YouTube it is not the easiest. If you had someone to coach you, it would be a lot more straight-forward. I have taught several people to ride and, with the benefit of feedback, they were all up and rolling in a few hours. I suppose my point here is that it is very achievable - especially it you're prepared to ask questions. 

And I think there is a level of exercise that riding provides, albeit low-intensity. My commute is about 4-5 km (each way) and even for that short ride, done hard it will mean that I arrive short of breath and with an elevated heart rate. While this may not be considered as a "workout," my experience is that my core muscles have strengthened considerably since I have been riding. And as someone who has had back issues for a long time, that is fantastic.

Where I live, the winter weather gets down to "just a bit above freezing," and i still ride year round. On colder mornings, there is a noticeable sluggishness to my wheel and a reduced range. But it definitely keeps going, even in the rain.

You have obviously thought all of this through and done a good amount of research - I think you are definitely on the right track with EUC and the KS16S would be a good choice. 

[Mono]

My wheel(s) have been completely and entirely replaced my cycling (and walking) activity, wheeling for close to 8000km in 2+ years. I do not use the wheel as only means of transportation though and never go above 25km/h. About half of the time spent on the wheel is for fun/playing/practicing, not for going from A to B. I don't use protective gear. I do get physical exercise from wheeling. There is some resemblance with downhill skiing, though (much) less demanding, no getting out of breath. Depending on where and how (uphills, speed, ...) I have been cycling, wheeling can be more or less physically demanding than cycling. I also prefer the body posture on the EUC over the bicycle, but going plain straight on a flat road for 15 minutes I don't find enjoyable at all from the riding perspective.

EDIT: I don't regard my EUC as fail-safe. I constantly consider that it could fail and how I would escape that case relatively unscathed. "trust it so much I don't ever think about it" seems is not an option available to me at this point in time. Besides that, I don't trust myself to not make any rider error ever. It is safe to say that at least as many accidents are related to rider mistakes as to wheel failures.

EDIT: yesterday I encountered my first wheel failure ever which I had to run off: I got a flat tire. Though to be fair, the tire had leaked already before I started the trip, so mounting a wheel with a known defect is again rather a rider mistake.

[Smoother]

You could increase the exercise portion of wheeling, adopting modified yoga/ Pilates positions ( I'm being serious) such as deep knee bends for extended periods. You would look like a twat, but that's for you to decide. Other than knee bends I can't think of other ways to artificially increase muscle work on an EUC. It's just too damn easy (unless you're  fighting for grip in sand or ice, then it becomes even more fun,  but probably not while trying to get to work/school)

[Slaughthammer]

12 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

• Winter. I ride my bike all winter, and especially in winter I'd prefer not to. Cars (even electric ones, of course) and bicycles work in winter, my EUC would have to, too! Shorter range is no problem if normal range is 60km+. I only usually need 20km max (although more is nice, maybe for longer tours on weekends?). I'm ok with alway storing my EUC inside where it's warm, but I gotta be able to use it for at least 30min, better up to an hour outside (safely). Temperatures can drop to -20°C max, mostly not under -5°C. (-4°F / 23°F respectively). I would also have to practice in winter if I bought now! (So, no continuous battery use in low temperatures as long as I can't ride well)
• Weather. Again, nobody would buy a car that breaks when you use it in the rain. I get it if the EUC is only being used as a toy for fun like people who only skate in nice weather at a skate park, but I thought EUCs & the like are being targeted more and more for everyday transportation. That the road can be slippery and thus you should ride more slowly/carefully during rain is obvious - same goes for bikes & cars.
• Salt (side effect of winter). Ok - when there is fresh snow on the streets & bike paths, I don't ride my bike either. But we don't get a lot of snow here and when we do, a day after the snowfall, the roads are clear again because of salt. Same as before - cars and bikes can of course be used on salted roads. Corrosion is there, but I've had my bike for ~8 years now, use it all the time. I'm okay with a bit of maintenance - more oiling of the chain, new chain after a couple years etc.; I'd be okay with a bit of maintenance with the EUC, too (how, though?).
• Safety. As stated above, I'd frequently have to use roads (or sidewalks, if that's better - but at 20km/h, I doubt it). I have to ride after dark (especially in winter - gets dark at 4-5pm). I don't want too much extra hassle - skating helmet is ok, but a lot of extras (knee-, elbow-, wristguards, full face mountainbiking helmet) would really annoy me. I'd have to feel as safe as I feel now on my bicycle (very safe! shouldn't feel like an adventure, should feel like commuting (though I do like adventures)).
• Safety (again). I understand that EUCs are unregulated. On my bike, I have everything under my control - everything is powered by me. I can't have my vehicle suddenly stop working at 30 km/h (or at any other speed). I want to be able to trust it so much I don't ever think about it.
• Exercise. I'm a huge bicycle advocate and I think the health benefits of bike commuting are great - in stressful times, I'm still getting exercise every day because of it. How do EUCs compare - do you feel like you are getting exercise riding for 20-30 minutes? I know this is kinda weird to ask, because I want to switch to a motorized vehicle and still want exercise - but remember, I'd just like to "walk at the speed of cycling" . It's not the most important aspect, though.
• Difficulty. I'm absolutely willing to learn a fun new skill and put some time in it! But if I practice every other day and still can't commute as safely as with my bike (on roads & bike paths) after a month or more, I think it'd be too much.
• Law... or maybe not. I usually feel really uncomfortable doing illegal things, even if the law is silly (wild camping in the alps, ...), but I've only read good things from Austrian EUCists. It'd be an absolute bummer though if I bought a 1700€ wheel and got "caught", had to pay a penalty fee and couldn't commute on it anymore

Winter: 30 Minutes at about 0°C is perfectly fine for any EUC, provided a warm EUC to start with. However, much below that I won't ride my EUC, because I will freeze. You're basically standing still while moving at some considerable speed, so there is quite a bit of windchill and no exercise to keep you warm. So below 0°C I found, that you need to gear up seriously to stay warm, which is not worth the effort for me. This also answers your question about exercise: not comparable to the amout you get while riding a bike. However, I'd say a bit more than driving a car/bus/train. 
Weather: Most EUCs nowadays are reasonably weatherproof.
Salt: EUCs should handle salt well. Not to many moving parts....
Safety:  I find that anywhere I can ride a bike safely, I can ride my EUC safely  as well. My usual safety equipment consists of a helmet and wrist guards (summer) or leather gloves (winter). But I don't go that fast, not above 25 km/h. If I wanted to ride above that speed regularly, I would surely beef up my safety gear.
Safety²: buy a known reliable wheel, don't push it to much, and you will most likely be fine. However, there is always the unlikely chance of exactly that happening. Anxiety seems to disappear after some 100 km without any incident.
Difficulty: In my opinion, it's not more difficult than riding a bike. How quick you learn will depend hugely upon many factors. Done any balance intensive sports? Skateboarding? Windsurfing? Skiing? Those seem to help massively. I learned the basic skill of riding in a straight line and some mild curved within 10 minutes, but I consider myself quite well equipped for learning this, being a pretty decent windsurfer. Yet it took me about a week and 100 km of daily practice until I could ride around effortlessly with tight turns, going slow, mounting and dismounting. YMMV.

[LZmiljoona]

13 hours ago, xebeche said:

At this moment there is no chance that EUC can be considered as safe as a bicycle. First - bicycle has one major built in redundancy compared to EUC - two wheels - meaning that you don't fall if you stop pedaling. On EUC you fall down instantly if the power is cut during riding for whatever reason. If you go slow you might run off, but if you are going fast you could find your self in some serious trouble. There are many topics on this forum covering these situations and accidents. It might get better / more safe in the future with some redundancy features on new wheels, but no wheel on the market at this moment has any actually. 

Hm, this kinda worries me. I mean, I wouldn't ride over 20 or 25km/h for commuting, and if I want to ride faster for fun I'd totally wear a full face helmet & wrist-, ... guards. I've seen videos of people falling and nothing happening, but I've also read about injuries and someone on this forum even had memory loss after an accident! (Although they said they didn't wear a helmet).

That's just scary to me, the thought that it may just suddenly stop.

12 hours ago, steve454 said:

This might be good, but if it was electrically assisted might be better.https://www.elliptigo.com/

Haha! I think I've seen that before  I guess I'd care too much about looks  

To clear things up again, I do want a motorized vehicle & of course you get less exercise. EUCs seem so much fun.

12 hours ago, Mono said:

My wheel(s) have been completely and entirely replaced my cycling (and walking) activity

Do you ride year-round? How cold does it get where you live?

12 hours ago, Mono said:

I don't regard my EUC as fail-safe. I constantly consider that it could fail and how I would escape that case relatively unscathed.

And how do you do that? You wrote that you don't wear protective gear.

 

It's really hard to decide for me, since I'm seeing so many opposites. People saying it's dangerous and having injuries to people riding in foot deep snow. I don't really know what to think... 

[stevedig]

39 minutes ago, LZmiljoona said:

I mean, I wouldn't ride over 20 or 25km/h for commuting

ha! dream on. as you get more comfortable you increase the speed you ride at until the wheel stops you or conditions prevent it. 35kph becomes very comfortable until you fall at that speed, then it becomes comfortable again as you recover. 

39 minutes ago, LZmiljoona said:

It's really hard to decide for me, since I'm seeing so many opposites. People saying it's dangerous and having injuries to people riding in foot deep snow. I don't really know what to think... 

safety is a good word. everybody likes it ... but at the end of the day it's an illusion. in all things, there is risk. getting up out of bed in the morning entails risk. getting in your car and driving to the store entails risk. hell, we've had 2 cars drive into 2 houses in the city this weekend alone. one death. sitting on your couch watching tv entails risk.

riding an euc is no different. you will have some strawberries. you may break a bone at some point. just like everything in life. if you get in a car thinking your chances of breaking a bone are so low as to be nonexistent ... well.

the ROI is well worth it in my opinion but i've never been particularly risk averse. i recognize that i take risks but i want the experiences that accompany them. i'm willing to make the trade and have done so numerous times in my 50+ years. that is me tho and what has also become abundantly clear in my 50+ years is that i tend to be a little more willing to trade risk for experience than many of my peers. each person must make up their mind for themselves.

[meepmeepmayer]

You don't have to pay crazy French prices. A 16S (the right and imho only good choice for your ideas) is 1549€ at 1rad.

About your post, in general, you won't get as many guarantees and certainties as you'd like. You'll just have to try it yourself.

• Winter:
  Never store your EUC at below 15°C, just take it inside wherever you are. The point is having the batteries be warm enough to not start going low performance (they get warm during usage, so that's not the problem, but don't start with a cold wheel). Other parts have also been reported to fail after a night in a cold car trunk.
  Anything below 10°C is COLD for you because you just stand in the wind like if you're standing on the spot. Cools you out really fast. You'll give up from the cold or the battery is empty anyways before the EUC getting too cold becomes a problem. So that's not an issue.
• Weather: no problem. The 16S will take any rain you take.
• Salt: Nobody I know of really had the heart to try and find out how a wheel likes lots of salt. I guess, if you clean your wheel regularly, it's better than with bikes. Preparation (aka some coating spray or whatever works for bike chains) is probably the most important part.
• Safety: Wrist/hand guards (impact protection, not only gloves!), knee pads, helmet is the most important safety gear (in this order). The first two for when you make an error or you just slip, the helmet mostly for when others (aka cars) make an error.
  You can just use wrist guards and a helmet, which is the minimum for daily commute riding.
  Get proper lights and reflective stuff for your body.
  And simply be aware that a EUC is inherently less stable than a bike. Sudden gusts of wind (like from fast trucks) are e.g. something you'll have to consider a bit more than on  bike.
• Safety (again): Imho, the KS16S is one of the two the safest wheels you can buy right now (other would be the 18S) for what you want. It's as good as it can get. There's still no electric unicycle with any kind of redundancy. They all just have one wheel. Shit can still happen, and any error means you fall (unlike a bike). That's just how it is with EUCs. One failure = fall. Both for hardware failure and rider error or bad luck.
  That said, I haven't heard of a single 16S fall due to hardware failure.
• Exercise: EUCing is zero exercise. You're just standing there. Maybe slightly elevated heart rate due to the wind and fresh air and sensations and a little bit of subconscious balancing. Stand still on one leg (outside in the wind, if you like), that's how much exercise you'll get. Not much.
  Cycling is definitely better for your body, and the "bad posture" argument makes no sense to me.
• Difficulty: the start is hard, but it becomes easy really fast. All safety disadvantages compared to a bike will be due to lack of experience, and due to the inherent reduced safety of a device with just one wheel. Its not a bike.
• Law: well, you do it, or you don't. No guarantees. Seems to work quite fine in Austria, though.

My tip: get a 16S already, and love it! You can commute perfectly fine on any EUC if you're willing to adapt a little. Shouldn't be a problem with a 16S which is THE city commuter wheel right now. If it does not work out for you, it's probably on you (or the road salt, that stuff scares me).

[meepmeepmayer]

8 minutes ago, stevedig said:

ha! dream on. as you get more comfortable you increase the speed you ride at until the wheel stops you or conditions prevent it. 35kph becomes very comfortable until you fall at that speed, then it becomes comfortable again as you recover.

100% true

You need to be aware that a EUC is faster than a bike, and have that in mind and act accordingly (aka be aware of your speed and slow down in doubt).

[Herbas]

In regards to battery, right now it's around 0C here and I was checking battery temperature during my commutes. I start with a battery at 20C and in the end of my commute (40 minutes) it is at 11-12C. So all is fine here.

I echo what WARPed1701D said in terms of health. Since replacing my bike with EUC I've also felt being on the verge of having a cold a lot more often. But I still hope that it's just due to insufficient clothing, as you definitely need much more serious clothes for EUCing in cold weather.

[Mono]

3 hours ago, LZmiljoona said:

Do you ride year-round? How cold does it get where you live?

 

Yes, I ride all year, but it rarely gets below -5º celsius here. I also rarely ride in heavy rain, a condition I even like less than when using a bicycle.

 

Quote

And how do you do that? You wrote that you don't wear protective gear.

 

Some people seem to believe that everybody is like them, giving in to the urge to ride faster than 25km/h. They are wrong, not everybody behaves like them. Besides, it is very safe to say that riding above 25km/h will not be legal in most European countries anytime soon.

 

I can most of the time run off when losing the wheel at moderate speeds (below 15km/h or so). I can run 25km/h, but I don't expect to stay on my feet when losing the wheel at this speed. Still I have quite some control in this case before to go down: not going close to anything I could hit left or right at high speed, keep the knees soft and acquire the reflex to bend the knees when anything unexpected happens, expect the unexpected, do one or two or even three steps after I lost the wheel reducing speed and moderating where to go down before to go down...

 

No doubt that it is a huge advantage to be smart about riding attitude in order to not get hurt. Paraphrasing another forum member, the brain is the most important safety device. Ignorance, overconfidence and complacency are the most significant safety hazards.

 

My hunch is that EUCing (EDIT: limited to 25km/h max speed) and cycling have in general a similar health risk. The advantage of cycling is though that most of us have learned cycling as a child, so most of us are much better in negotiating critical situations.

 

[mezzanine]

7 minutes ago, Mono said:

 

 

 

My hunch is that EUCing and cycling have in general a similar health risk. The advantage of cycling is though that most of us have learned cycling as a child, so most of us are much better in negotiating critical situations.

 

I disagree.  EUCs are much more dangerous than bicycles. 

[Steven D Wheeler]

1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

I disagree.  EUCs are much more dangerous than bicycles. 

I concur, one must have their skill set put together well before entering into a stressful riding situation such as crowded trails, street or sidewalks.

[LZmiljoona]

7 hours ago, mezzanine said:

I disagree.  EUCs are much more dangerous than bicycles. 

 

5 hours ago, Steven D Wheeler said:

I concur, one must have their skill set put together well before entering into a stressful riding situation such as crowded trails, street or sidewalks.

So an EUC is not really suitable to replace a bike for commuting, I guess. I wouldn't want something "much more dangerous"... I mean I know it's just opinions, but I dunno.

9 hours ago, stevedig said:

safety is a good word. everybody likes it ... but at the end of the day it's an illusion. in all things, there is risk

This made me smile. You know, I started getting the hang gliding license a few years ago. Never in my life have I done something that feels as great (except for one other thing, haha), and I would bet EUCing would not come really close. I know your thoughts, I've been there. Haven't finished the hang gliding classes yet for various reasons, one of them being safety. You are right, of course - but everybody draws a line somewhere - for most people, this line would be before hang gliding or paragliding. And in this case for me, it's hard to decide where to draw my line.

It's such a big decision for me because as a student I'm lucky to be even able to spend 1,5 grand - but even though I imagine EUCing to be so much fun, it would really have to work out great for commuting and getting around, too - just like my bicycle. If I want to do something fun, or get a toy, I have many other things on my list - including a hang glider or a nice month-long trip.

 

So for now, I'm getting too many mixed opinions. A guy on Youtube for example replied to me that he doesn't ride in winter, because salt would destroy the bearing and the motor. Can't clean that with a wet cloth. It's hard to know who I should believe, I'm still getting opposite opinions here and there.

I think I'll leave it at that for now. Maybe I'll go to Vienna (fun-shop.at) one day and try it out and fall in love with an EUC, or meet someone in Graz (coincidentally, just today I finally saw the guy in Graz again on his EUC! I know I had seen him before, but like a year ago! I should have shouted to him to stop  ... if you're reading this, write me a pm, I'd like to meet and talk about EUCs  ).

But it was nice having a discussion, and thank you for all the replies - seems like a nice community.

[LZmiljoona]

I meant to link http://www.funshop.at/

sorry.

[meepmeepmayer]

A EUC is not a bike, so it can't 100% replace one. It has its own strengths and disadvantages. You can certainly make it work for your commuting ideas. Also, you won't lose your bike when getting a wheel, you have an extra vehicle. Maybe biking in winter and EUCing in summer?

In situations like this, follow your intuition. If you feel the money isn't worth it or you aren't entirely happy with buying one, don't buy one. If it turns out you kind of want one, get one.

[Marty Backe]

42 minutes ago, LZmiljoona said:

 

So an EUC is not really suitable to replace a bike for commuting, I guess. I wouldn't want something "much more dangerous"... I mean I know it's just opinions, but I dunno.

This made me smile. You know, I started getting the hang gliding license a few years ago. Never in my life have I done something that feels as great (except for one other thing, haha), and I would bet EUCing would not come really close. I know your thoughts, I've been there. Haven't finished the hang gliding classes yet for various reasons, one of them being safety. You are right, of course - but everybody draws a line somewhere - for most people, this line would be before hang gliding or paragliding. And in this case for me, it's hard to decide where to draw my line.

It's such a big decision for me because as a student I'm lucky to be even able to spend 1,5 grand - but even though I imagine EUCing to be so much fun, it would really have to work out great for commuting and getting around, too - just like my bicycle. If I want to do something fun, or get a toy, I have many other things on my list - including a hang glider or a nice month-long trip.

 

So for now, I'm getting too many mixed opinions. A guy on Youtube for example replied to me that he doesn't ride in winter, because salt would destroy the bearing and the motor. Can't clean that with a wet cloth. It's hard to know who I should believe, I'm still getting opposite opinions here and there.

I think I'll leave it at that for now. Maybe I'll go to Vienna (fun-shop.at) one day and try it out and fall in love with an EUC, or meet someone in Graz (coincidentally, just today I finally saw the guy in Graz again on his EUC! I know I had seen him before, but like a year ago! I should have shouted to him to stop  ... if you're reading this, write me a pm, I'd like to meet and talk about EUCs  ).

But it was nice having a discussion, and thank you for all the replies - seems like a nice community.

I used to Hang Glide. Had a Hang 4 rating (don't know if that's still used) and about 250 flight hours. I would say that except for take off and landings, EUCs are potentially more dangerous, but only if a hardware failure occurs while you are at speed. But when considering the real big picture, many people have died Hang Gliding. I don't know of any EUC deaths, and there are far more riders than pilots.

But don't overthink this. EUCs are safe. I wouldn't ride them every day if I actually thought that there was a good chance that I may break something on any particular ride.

Many people are overly cautious and think in hypothetical terms all the time. I rode my MSuper in salt water at the beach. I simply rinsed it off when I got home. Yet I got plenty of comments from people that said I was destroying my wheel. Just use common sense.

Lastly, this is a sport for people with disposable income. Don't get into this if you're going to struggle meeting your mortgage payment or rent by getting one. With the lack of general support from the manufacturers and many resellers, you must be prepared to get your hands dirty maintaining them. On the plus side, there's only a battery, motor, and control board. It's not like working on a car.

[JimB]

On 11/25/2017 at 5:21 AM, LZmiljoona said:

Hm, this kinda worries me. I mean, I wouldn't ride over 20 or 25km/h for commuting, and if I want to ride faster for fun I'd totally wear a full face helmet & wrist-, ... guards. I've seen videos of people falling and nothing happening, but I've also read about injuries and someone on this forum even had memory loss after an accident! (Although they said they didn't wear a helmet).

I see this over and over again on this forum.  New people who think that they don't need protection if they ONLY ride at 20-25 kmh.  That's like running a kilometer in 3 minutes - which is pretty damn fast.  So, basically run as fast as you possibly can, straight into a brick wall.  Mmmm fun!

I regularly see people on EUCs without helmet and wristguards.  They are fools.

Don't go out EVER, without helmet and wristguards.

----

Austria is beautiful.  I envy you.  My wife and I vacationed there a few years ago.  Very nice.

Consider, you may not want to completely replace your bike.  Most wheels are pretty safe in the rain.  However I don't find it pleasant to ride in the rain.  I use my wheel on days when rain is less likely.  I use the car on days when heavy rain is expected.  I know that some people have ridden these wheels on snow/ice, but I leave mine home in those conditions.

[US69]

19 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

overthink this. EUCs are safe. I wouldn't ride them every day if I actually thought that there was a good chance that I may break something on any particular ride.

sorry, i have to disagree....

I dont think euc driving is safe, i wish it would be, to get more people in, and make them more common.

But thats just not the thruth. And to say so, when 6 of 7 of your GW wheels have failed in the end, is just over optimismum,or Marty?

The day when just a bit of redundancy is coming to euc driving i say they are safe, too. But as long as the smallest resistor, wire, batterie,tire or whatsoever fail will lead to a fall, to call it safe is just a joke....

there is a reason why more and more experienced euc drivers start wearing full face helmets and so on!

Thats not because this people dont trust their own drive abilities or have a fear of other participants of traffic....its because they learned the hard way what can happen on an EUC, unfortunately!

Thats no bashing...just be realistic what you are driving...