Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[Tawpie]

10 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

a rider managed to melt a weld strip in their Master while riding and had a serious crash

The rider seems to be ok enough to post on TG and no terrible injuries noted. I'm sure it hurt plenty though. The picture of the crash scene is at a rarely-used-by-cars section that's a little like an on ramp. Goes gently uphill maybe a hundred yards with a left turn at the top (crash looked to happen about half way up). Perfect pavement. It's featured in many of the Saturday Night Ride videos because the city skyline is the backdrop.

[Paul g]

20 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Making the rounds on Telegram and Facebook... apparently a rider managed to melt a weld strip in their Master while riding and had a serious crash: 

It means the rider sustained 80A for a handful of seconds, which I think should never be destructive to the interconnects. C'mon Gotway...

I suppose we should add something to the list of series-pack drawbacks:

• Each pack will see full system current (unlike 1/2 like RS packs, or 1/3 like EX packs). If the cell interconnects are not sized appropriately, they could fail.
   

Maybe mechanical stress contributed in there as well 🤔

[Whalesmash]

Supposedly the newer masters are now 67 volts *2 per side now. Newer vs older wheels are not compatible and also use different firmware. There's a picture floating around on telegram somewhere with some pictures (that don't really tell a whole lot), I'll see if I can find it again.

In other news, the frame on my master cracked after it rolled down a grassy hill. It was not a very hard impact, and my other wheels have definitely sustained worse with far less damage. There's definitely still a lot of room for improvement on this design.

 

[Paul g]

@RagingGrandpa @Tawpie, was it a eWheels one or from other sellers?

[Tawpie]

4 minutes ago, Paul g said:

@RagingGrandpa @Tawpie, was it a eWheels one or from other sellers?

I do not know where the wheel came from but I haven't heard of Master pre-orders from eWheels being been filled yet.

But visually from one post-crash picture, the Clark system (or luck) seems to have kept the wheel from completely self destructing.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul g]

17 hours ago, Whalesmash said:

Supposedly the newer masters are now 67 volts *2 per side now. Newer vs older wheels are not compatible and also use different firmware. There's a picture floating around on telegram somewhere with some pictures (that don't really tell a whole lot), I'll see if I can find it again.

In other news, the frame on my master cracked after it rolled down a grassy hill. It was not a very hard impact, and my other wheels have definitely sustained worse with far less damage. There's definitely still a lot of room for improvement on this design.

 

Well, that is telling. That strip in the picture is on the corner of the pack where can easily be hit in an impact.

I’ve seen this in the teardowns made by iCafe on many Begode wheels. I’m not sure if that is the case now, but mechanical stress seem to be part of those ruined packs. The failings happened mostly on the strips from the front corners, where the wheel was hitting stuff.

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Paul g
sure not shure

[dangasaur]

That seems like a good fatigue point to have an over current situation.  Hopefully we can get some info on the life of that wheel prior to the failure.

[RagingGrandpa]

7 hours ago, Whalesmash said:

Supposedly the newer masters are now 67 volts *2 per side now

Sounds great to me, back to the same configuration as RS, then. Multiple 2P packs in parallel, each seeing only 1/2 of the system current.

There's no special reason GW couldn't beef up that final strip though, pretty shameful that they went ahead with it cut that small... #nofirstbatch

[chanman]

3 hours ago, dangasaur said:

That seems like a good fatigue point to have an over current situation

It's better than burning up the cells and getting a good old battery fire going. However one of nickel strips acting as a fuse unintentionally is poor design, there should be an actual fuse that fails when it is supposed to, not to say anything about the strips potentially being damage by regular use.

Edited July 22, 2022 by chanman

[Kutvis]

This is a reason for a recall on the products. As it will ever happen and delays have cause summer to get past before the wheel is delivered I have move my order from #1 batch to #2 batch and I suggest everyone else to do the same as BG will never change anything if we just bend over and take it.

There is also a huge issue: The #2 spareparts won't mix properly with #1.. anyone believe they don't need to fix their master during the life cycle of the wheel? I wouldn't be surprised if they stop delivering spareparts for the #1 version at some time all together and in case of minor part getting broken riders are forced to swap most of the wheel including battery packs and still have a mixmatch disaster.. better just to buy new one.

Im not at all surprised manufacturer don't give out info, the cutouts and changes we see from russian telegram clearly state the 1st batch is a disaster and not safe to ride, especially the speeds the wheel can deliver.

It might be the most awesome wheel ever, but the #1 batch is made for content creators and other guinea pigs

Edited July 22, 2022 by Kutvelo

[Eucner]

22 hours ago, techyiam said:

Begode is trying to improve their products with each new generation.

11 hours ago, Whalesmash said:

In other news, the frame on my master cracked after it rolled down a grassy hill. It was not a very hard impact, and my other wheels have definitely sustained worse with far less damage. There's definitely still a lot of room for improvement on this design.

They seem to have introduced an automatic disintegration function for easy recycling after crash .

[techyiam]

32 minutes ago, Eucner said:

They seem to have introduced an automatic disintegration function for easy recycling after crash .

Well, that is where the second part of my statement, "but they are still cutting corners", come in. 🙂

Don't fret. Early batch issues. They are still gaining experience building wheels with an aluminum alloy frame. Don't be an early batch adopter if one can't handle the disappointments, and long waits for satisfactory resolutions. Do you not agree that it was clear that the first batches were going to be high risk. Many, many people have pointed that out, but many people still buy them. So manufacturers are happy to do the same old, same old. Once the shortcomings are fixed, I would prefer these new gen wheels to the old.

But to fair to Begode, Andrew (Jimmy Chang Clan) crashed at high speeds when his frame cracked. The other case was when a Master tumbled down a slope that we know nothing about.

There is even one case, not a Master, where a wheel was totally submerged. And someone still complained that it should have faired better.  Building wheels is a tough business sometimes, scratch that, all the time.

Edited July 22, 2022 by techyiam

[Kutvis]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Well, that is where the second part of my statement, "but they are still cutting corners", come in. 🙂

Don't fret. Early batch issues. They are still gaining experience building wheels with an aluminum alloy frame. Don't be an early batch adopter if one can't handle the disappointments, and long wait for satisfactory resolutions. Do you not agree that it was clear that the first batches were going to be high risk. Many, many people have pointed that out, but many people still buy them. So manufacturers are happy to do the same old, same old. Once the shortcomings are fixed, I would prefer these new gen wheels to the old.

There are always issues, even swapping the battery tech would be ok IF they inform openly and clearly the customer base. Now as we need to dig the info out from unofficial channels for huge changes which are happening and preventing spareparts being used.. it is totally pissing on the 1st batch purchasers who put their health on line to test the products.

Such behaviour requires punishment, not understanding.

E: I.E. I was planning to order new motherboard from Aliexpress and swap them into my wheel, luckily the info was leaked that won't be possible.
E: Giving a chanse by preordering is a strong impulse, cancelling the preorder for later batch wheel is even more strong impulse in my honest opinion.
E: What I would like to see is for Gotway to inform: "this is going to happen and we will continue to ship spareparts for #1 batch also".

Edited July 22, 2022 by Kutvelo

[Eucner]

16 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Don't fret. Early batch issues. They are still gaining experience building wheels with an aluminum alloy frame. Don't be an early batch adopter if one can't handle the disappointments, and long wait for satisfactory resolutions. Do you not agree that it was clear that the first batches were going to be high risk. Many, many people have pointed that out, but many people still buy them. So manufacturers are happy to do the same old, same old. Once the shortcomings are fixed, I would prefer these new gen wheels to the old.

Yes, they will keep updating software and electrical components, but I really doubt about major mechanical durability upgrade. We might see it in the next wheel, or wheel after that.

[Kutvis]

2 minutes ago, Eucner said:

Yes, they will keep updating software and electrical components, but I really doubt about major mechanical durability upgrade. We might see it in the next wheel, or wheel after that.

Changing batteries from 4x1 series to 2x2 is exactly that, I think

[mike_bike_kite]

12 hours ago, Whalesmash said:

In other news, the frame on my master cracked after it rolled down a grassy hill. It was not a very hard impact, and my other wheels have definitely sustained worse with far less damage. There's definitely still a lot of room for improvement on this design.

I do like the look of this wheel but it does seem to be designed to smack itself repeatedly as it rolls down a hill. The older egg shaped wheels (16S, 18XL, Nik etc) are much more resilient in this way.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Kutvelo said:

There are always issues, even swapping the battery tech would be ok IF they inform openly and clearly the customer base. Now as we need to dig the info out from unofficial channels for huge changes which are happening and preventing spareparts being used.. it is totally pissing on the 1st batch purchasers who put their health on line to test the products.

Such behaviour requires punishment, not understanding.

E: I.E. I was planning to order new motherboard from Aliexpress and swap them into my wheel, luckily the info was leaked that won't be possible.

But I have been saying this all along. Don't buy early batches, and let your reasons be known. 

As for mismatched battery packs, this concept isn't new in other industries, such as automotive. Always consult the service manual for your specific make and model. Unfortunately, in the euc world, these are not available. So the next best thing is to contact an authorized dealer. But should one decides to venture out on your own, you will be taking more risks. 

At the outset, we must first acknowledge that there are many deficiencies in the euc world. Things like service manuals, and timely updates from manufacturers to the dealers and distributors are lacking. Even dealers complain. 

So in order for an individual to swim in such murky waters, that individual needs to be sharp, knowledgeable, experienced, know his or hers way around, and have patience. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by techyiam

[daniel1234]

37 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I do like the look of this wheel but it does seem to be designed to smack itself repeatedly as it rolls down a hill. The older egg shaped wheels (16S, 18XL, Nik etc) are much more resilient in this way.

I am more afraid about electrical failure than mechanical one. If 40 kg starts rolling you need metal to stop it - for most people it is ugly but I love mine rollcage. Anyway seems like I need to sell mine master while is running fine...  Without spare parts it is paperweight. 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Eucner said:

Yes, they will keep updating software and electrical components, but I really doubt about major mechanical durability upgrade. We might see it in the next wheel, or wheel after that.

Fair statement based on what we seen in the past.

However, there two approaches Begode can take. One is to simply strengthen the structural member (assuming no defects to start with). The other is to provide protection, either to cushion the blow, or to deflect the momentum. Currently, some thinks the armor system from ClarkPads may help.

For me, it is hard to guess what they will do. Without having the chance to analysis the damage, I don't have facts to work with.

Edited July 22, 2022 by techyiam

[Eucner]

4 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The other is to provide protection, either to cushion the blow, or to deflect the momentum. Currently, some thinks the armor system from ClarkPads may help.

Air bags could work fine. Just little cash and hassle to replace them after a crash.

[techyiam]

9 minutes ago, Eucner said:

Air bags could work fine. Just little cash and hassle to replace them after a crash.

For the occupant, yes, no way for a machine.

[techyiam]

43 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

Without spare parts it is paperweight. 

Yup, historically, buying early batches have been high risk purchases.

[Freeforester]

A deformable-upon-impact (shock absorbing) roll cage like Splyce EUC makes (or make one with adjustable dimensions) should reduce impact damage considerably, if well enough designed. Local smith manufactured a couple of side panels and joining cross member at the top, the rest is threaded rod, Velcro and a confection of piping of various diameters with added sparkly bits, no great magic,  nor have I sourced decent parking bumper/skid pads, but I think the main idea is that it should give or bend to a certain degree in the event of an impact at speed, rather than be rigid and just break into pieces. I’ve no idea whether it will be fit for purpose, and I hope never to find out, lol!

 

[techyiam]

23 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

A deformable-upon-impact (shock absorbing) roll cage like Splyce EUC makes (or make one with adjustable dimensions) should reduce impact damage considerably, if well enough designed. Local smith manufactured a couple of side panels and joining cross member at the top, the rest is threaded rod, Velcro and a confection of piping of various diameters with added sparkly bits, no great magic,  nor have I sourced decent parking bumper/skid pads, but I think the main idea is that it should give or bend to a certain degree in the event of an impact at speed, rather than be rigid and just break into pieces

Creative solutions are great for owners who chose to have it done.  But for mass consumption, it is going to be a bit more complicated. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by techyiam

[Cerbera]

24 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

A deformable-upon-impact (shock absorbing) roll cage like Splyce EUC makes (or make one with adjustable dimensions) should reduce impact damage considerably, if well enough designed. Local smith manufactured a couple of side panels and joining cross member at the top, the rest is threaded rod, Velcro and a confection of piping of various diameters with added sparkly bits, no great magic,  nor have I sourced decent parking bumper/skid pads, but I think the main idea is that it should give or bend to a certain degree in the event of an impact at speed, rather than be rigid and just break into pieces. I’ve no idea whether it will be fit for purpose, and I hope never to find out, lol!

 

Wow !!!