Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[Rawnei]

6 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Just ideas; I notice when I go harder (not faster) on my S18 the range is a lot less than when I accelerate gently and take it easy. Maybe you ride the Master harder but at the same average/top speeds without realising it or it could be one wheel is more efficient or accurate than the other? so many things so hard to tell. 

For me it's probably the other way around since the S22 suspension have been very cushy I've been pushing it harder, perhaps it's just the C38 motor at 134v that is ineffective in comparison. 😐

[The Brahan Seer]

If you charge both wheels to 100% and do the exact same run on them on the same day to a same very low charge and record the range this should confirm your suspicions for certain( hoping the weather doesn't change). Maybe double check that the data from EUC world is accurate for both your wheels by cross referencing with another app? Are the tyres different for each wheel? Total weight?, aerodynamics? although these might be very small things perhaps when they add up it can make an impact?

 

[sffish]

3 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Finally getting my Master into a state where I can start to enjoy it, I've done a lot of work on it to improve many aspects of the wheel and finally it starts to feel like I don't have to think about bunch of stuff I need to improve.

But there is one thing that really irks me, I feel like I get really poor range on it, I'm mainly comparing it to my S22 since they have similar specs, subjectively it feels like my S22 has a lot more range to give me and comparing my EUC World tours looking at battery levels kind of confirms that. I can't for the life of me understand why, Master is supposed to have a bit more battery than the S22, overall I ride similar on both so similar top and average speeds, is the Master just not as effective in operation?

Here's my latest tour from today, was about 5c outside today, not riding excessively fast and already touching ~10%/108v after not even riding 50km (I have my 0% set to 106v which is when wheel will start alerting about low battery, I set my 0% like this for all my wheels): https://euc.world/tour/620238052420149

Again subjectively speaking it feels like similar to the type of range I expected from my old MSP HT but of course I ride a little bit faster on the Master so it's a tough comparison there but I do expect more than this.

So I dunno, it's the last thing I'm not that happy with.

For comparison here's some tours on the S22.

January, less speed but much much colder outside (minus degrees celsius), more distance, 40%+ battery remaining: https://euc.world/tour/617624102934248

November, cold outside, a lot of distance but less speed, 40% battery remaining: https://euc.world/tour/615583434341266

August, S22 decent speeds, lots more distance, 45% battery remaining: https://euc.world/tour/613105140623365

August, Master for direct comparison similar speeds but less range and noticeably less battery remaining: https://euc.world/tour/615525305601319

I'm usually the first person to say that it's just X capacity nothing magical going on but the difference is just so big here and I've noticed it many times now and I wish I could explain it by me riding faster on one wheel over the other but I don't think I am so I'm at a loss here.

  I get 40-50 miles with similar avg speeds to you in 40-50 degree F on my 50E Master Version 3. I'm assuming you checked that all 4 of your battery packs are working? Maybe the colder temperatures you ride in is enough to explain the difference if not it's not the batteries? In general my master is good for at least 50 miles of fairly aggressive riding (25-40 mph) before it gets to 30-40% and then that's enough to get me home at slower speeds. 

[Rawnei]

57 minutes ago, sffish said:

  I get 40-50 miles with similar avg speeds to you in 40-50 degree F on my 50E Master Version 3. I'm assuming you checked that all 4 of your battery packs are working? Maybe the colder temperatures you ride in is enough to explain the difference if not it's not the batteries? In general my master is good for at least 50 miles of fairly aggressive riding (25-40 mph) before it gets to 30-40% and then that's enough to get me home at slower speeds. 

I had one pack die after 250km of owning this wheel so been there done that, the range was atrocious with only 2 packs working, about half of what I get now.

The issue here is that it's such poor range compared to a wheel with similar specs and riding conditions, since I have two very similar wheels in terms of speed capability, capacity, weight and tire size I can compare them back to back and the difference is quite big.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Rawnei

[mrelwood]

On 4/7/2023 at 4:34 PM, Rawnei said:

I have my 0% set to 106v which is when wheel will start alerting about low battery

106V is 3.3125V per cell group. That’s the traditional high GotWay/Begode low limit. KingSongs tend to go down to 3.0-3.15V per cell group, so there is inherently more range available.

 It was the same with MSX 1600Wh vs 18XL, the KS got much better range. I wouldn’t be surprised if also the riding algorithms were much better optimized in the KS, resulting in less energy used per mile.

[Rawnei]

11 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

106V is 3.3125V per cell group. That’s the traditional high GotWay/Begode low limit. KingSongs tend to go down to 3.0-3.15V per cell group, so there is inherently more range available.

 It was the same with MSX 1600Wh vs 18XL, the KS got much better range. I wouldn’t be surprised if also the riding algorithms were much better optimized in the KS, resulting in less energy used per mile.

That coupled with the C38 motor could explain the difference.

[Timwheel]

I only get around 30-35 km of agressive riding even by 10-15°c before getting down to 30%. Now, when I mean agressive, I mean full tilt everytime it is possible and 70 km/h cruising, but still in city environnement (Paris). But they are the best miles I've ever ridden on a wheel. The master feels limitless.. at 35%, you can still cruise seated at 65 km/h with no beeps even with the 70% pwm firmware.

 

I always take a charger if I know that the round trip will be 40km or more;

However, i still haven't made up my mind about the charging board.. I don't want it to sag during the night, and currently it charges up to 133.4 according to the app,

If it still balances properly, I don't mind the 1v drop to be honest. Do any of you guys regret swapping the boards ?

Thanks

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, Timwheel said:

I only get around 30-35 km of agressive riding even by 10-15°c before getting down to 30%. Now, when I mean agressive, I mean full tilt everytime it is possible and 70 km/h cruising, but still in city environnement (Paris). But they are the best miles I've ever ridden on a wheel. The master feels limitless.. at 35%, you can still cruise seated at 65 km/h with no beeps even with the 70% pwm firmware.

 

I always take a charger if I know that the round trip will be 40km or more;

However, i still haven't made up my mind about the charging board.. I don't want it to sag during the night, and currently it charges up to 133.4 according to the app,

If it still balances properly, I don't mind the 1v drop to be honest. Do any of you guys regret swapping the boards ?

Thanks

Mine was charging to full with both old and new boards,  I don't have enough data to decide if it was "worth it" to swap as there was only hearsay regarding the old boards having some sort of balancing problem which if true to me doesn't leave a lot of option other than swapping.

Overall Begode communication regarding their board updates is just atrocious, we know little why they release new versions and how important it is/is not to upgrade other than maybe 1-2 resellers being vocal about an issue.

[Giorgi]

Hi, I just bought a barely used Master and been trying to get hang of riding it. I noticed that the suspension had metallic clunk on every compression stroke so I investigated.

I deflated the shock to remove the tension from the system and this is what I found:

The whole assembly seems to be loose. The bolts seem to be tight. I don't know what the construction of the pins is like but it feels like that the bolts are bottomed out but still aren't clamping bushings.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? I still have year's worth of warranty on this thing, should I ask the shop to take care of this?

[Rawnei]

3 hours ago, Giorgi said:

Hi, I just bought a barely used Master and been trying to get hang of riding it. I noticed that the suspension had metallic clunk on every compression stroke so I investigated.

I deflated the shock to remove the tension from the system and this is what I found:

The whole assembly seems to be loose. The bolts seem to be tight. I don't know what the construction of the pins is like but it feels like that the bolts are bottomed out but still aren't clamping bushings.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? I still have year's worth of warranty on this thing, should I ask the shop to take care of this?

It is supposed to be loose like that, that's how it's constructed, the clunk is most likely a bottom out because the stock linkage is garbage, begode has released updated linkages that are somewhat improved.

[CrabChampion]

15 hours ago, Giorgi said:

Hi, I just bought a barely used Master and been trying to get hang of riding it. I noticed that the suspension had metallic clunk on every compression stroke so I investigated.

I deflated the shock to remove the tension from the system and this is what I found:

The whole assembly seems to be loose. The bolts seem to be tight. I don't know what the construction of the pins is like but it feels like that the bolts are bottomed out but still aren't clamping bushings.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? I still have year's worth of warranty on this thing, should I ask the shop to take care of this?

Thats normal. The linkage is supposed to be under constant tension from the shock and that slop will be gone. Better to be loose and less friction than tight and binding up. Take a look at the grub screws by the tube slider. There should be  2 on each side. Tighten them so the sliders are less clunky but still free moving. That should remove some of the noise coming from your suspension

 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

I do not know if it has already been mentioned here?

Master latest version:
Metal battery case = 3,343 grams
Plastic battery case = 2.834 grams

Difference: 609 grams x 4 = 2.436 grams

So the newest batch is at least 2,436 grams (5.34 lb) heavier.

[Rawnei]

3 minutes ago, EUC Custom Power-Pads said:

I do not know if it has already been mentioned here?

Master latest version:
Metal battery case = 3,343 grams
Plastic battery case = 2.834 grams

Difference: 609 grams x 4 = 2.436 grams

So the newest batch is at least 2,436 grams (5.34 lb) heavier.

Meaning that kitted with fairings, bumpers and pads it's nearing 45kg territory.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Master 36,7kg {without stock pads) 

Metal battery case +2.436 kg (metal 3,343 kg/ Plastic = 2,834 kg)
NyloNove pedals -1 kg
Side plates +1.17 kg
EPDM Power-Pads +0.2 kg
Jump-Blocks +0.5 kg
front /rear bumper +1 kg
fox shock -0.2 kg (stock 0,45 kg / Fox 0.25 kg
NyloNove linkage +0,32 kg (stock 0,76 kg / NyloNove 1.08 kg)

Total: 41,134 KG

If the damn customs would not strike in Cologne/Germany, then I would already have my very latest Master. 
Unfortunately, only the batteries have arrived so far, but not yet the wheel. I hope in a few days I know the real weight. 
 

Edited April 23, 2023 by EUC Custom Power-Pads

[Timwheel]

I've still had no issues with the plastic cases. But I haven't fallen yet. I am still absolutely adoring this wheel as I've had no issues with it at all. I'm just a bit scared by the limited range sometimes, but it's nothing that easing the throttle doesn't fix.

I can get as low as 30-35km on the master 50E when riding 70 km/h+ sustained with hard accels and hard brakings. But i'm really pushing it so much that even the shermax, that I had, would be overtorqued all the time. I routinely overtorque the master. But I know that, I push comes to shove, I can ride seated at 50 km/h and get 80km no problems.

I'm still not sure if I should change the charging board... i did'nt find any informations on what was wrong with the first one. if it is cell balancing, I'll do it in a heartbeat. if It's to get from 133.3 to 134.4v, I don't really care.

 

Do any of you understood what was wrong ?

[Cerbera]

30 minutes ago, Timwheel said:

i did'nt find any informations on what was wrong with the first one.

 

30 minutes ago, Timwheel said:

Do any of you understood what was wrong ?

'Nobody knows' is the impression I get, and Begode have been vague almost to the point of what might appear to be deliberate obfuscation when asked about it ! They are equally happy to brush aside concerns that the new ones routinely bleed charge whilst off, for no appreciable reason, and don't seem to consider it a problem on their newer boards that sometimes they don't reach the full voltage, prompting people like Roger and Marty to mod theirs in a way that is not recommended for the majority of users. If you haven't seen it yet there is a recent video about this on @Marty Backe's channel, though I am unsure if the charge boards in the EX-30 are the same as the ones in the new Masters.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Cerbera

[Timwheel]

It might be (But I'm not sure at all) that it charges to 134.4v then takes time to equilibrate the cells once off charge, which would discharge some ? it might be better after a while ...

[Cerbera]

16 minutes ago, Timwheel said:

It might be (But I'm not sure at all) that it charges to 134.4v then takes time to equilibrate the cells once off charge, which would discharge some ? it might be better after a while ...

Well, speaking as someone who has swapped the charge boards out around 3 months ago, I can say with some confidence that the fall-off after charge stop has been consistent since swapping the board; there is no sign of it lessening with time. Nor do I believe that any balancing happens once charging has stopped, which may be wrong, but if it is then I would like an explanation for why no wheels previous to the Master exhibited these symptoms and how they managed to balance and then hold their charges !

Begode say there were 'safety reasons' for issuing the new charge boards, but didn't want to be pushed into saying anything more specific than that.

I consider this sort of thing their weakest / most trust-failing area, perhaps even more than the occasional batshit design decisions, or ropey QC, because it is much easier to address by just issuing comprehensive statements with each component re-issue, so that we all know what we are replacing and why !

Edited April 24, 2023 by Cerbera

[Chriull]

32 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Nor do I believe that any balancing happens once charging has stopped

Bleeding "overcharge" from the weakest cells (which charge to the highest single cell voltages) is an important part of balancing!

Like the other part, were the bleeding resistors take a bit from the charging current off these cells.

But off course only if the cells are out of balance! Once they are balanced they need to get out of balance again until such an effect can be seen.

A voltage drain after each charge is no balancing but a design fault.

[Cerbera]

Just now, Chriull said:

Bleeding "overcharge" from the weakest cells (which charge to the highest single cell voltages) is an important part of balancing

Indeed, but I thought that happened during the charge phase, not after it when power is disconnected ?

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

Indeed, but I thought that happened during the charge phase, not after it when power is disconnected ?

Only the "charge current bypass" bleeding downto ~4.2V happens without charger cpnnected.

With the classic passive balancing boards, at least.

[Grimm10]

5 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Begode say there were 'safety reasons' for issuing the new charge boards, but didn't want to be pushed into saying anything more specific than that.

I changed out the charge port on my Master and about the only thing I have noticed is that I have not experienced an electrical shock when I connect the charger to the port.

 

[Cerbera]

10 minutes ago, Grimm10 said:

I changed out the charge port on my Master and about the only thing I have noticed is that I have not experienced an electrical shock when I connect the charger to the port.

 

That's weird - my charge ports were never hot even with the original supplied board. Mine was from Batch 3.

[Magman116]

Mine were also never hot. Batch 3 as well, but I do notice the resting voltage drops from 134.4 down to 130.1 after 3 days for me. It did not do that with the original charge control board.  Now, the original charge board did have a failure that resulted in all my boards getting burned up. I can deal with topping of the charge right before I ride.

[Marty Backe]

On 4/24/2023 at 12:29 AM, Cerbera said:

 

'Nobody knows' is the impression I get, and Begode have been vague almost to the point of what might appear to be deliberate obfuscation when asked about it ! They are equally happy to brush aside concerns that the new ones routinely bleed charge whilst off, for no appreciable reason, and don't seem to consider it a problem on their newer boards that sometimes they don't reach the full voltage, prompting people like Roger and Marty to mod theirs in a way that is not recommended for the majority of users. If you haven't seen it yet there is a recent video about this on @Marty Backe's channel, though I am unsure if the charge boards in the EX-30 are the same as the ones in the new Masters.

It appears that all 134-volt power distribution boards (V2+ Master, Master Pro, EX30) use interchangeable boards. I've install a Master Pro board in the EX30. I see no reason why they would not be interchangeable.

My just-received EX30 also has the phantom power drain.