Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[Kutvis]

On 2/15/2023 at 11:46 PM, EUCzero said:

Yes. That is the battery BMS.

Not necessarily bad battery, but BMS has shut it down for some reason. Contact your dealer.

 

It seems to be, removed the battery and it kept solo concert for 1 more day. Packs were 55,5V+55,4V and 58V+27V.

I think this is a big improvement, I would have charged it without the sound.

[Timwheel]

Hello world !

 

I've been enjoying my master for 1300km now, using it almost exclusively above 60 kph and accelerating/braking very hard. The wheel has performed perfectly so far.

However, now that it's 15°C outside, I already see spikes above 50°c... that doesn't look very promising for the summer. Do any of you know if they are prone to overheating ? i know some masters have fans and some don't, mine is a 2nd batch and I haven't disassembled it yet. I run the 70% PWM custom FW for safety, however I'm wondering if i'll have to mod it to cool down properly... it seems that there is pad between the transfer plate (where the mostfets are laying on) and the heatsink. I think that the electrical isolation is already managed under the mosfets, so I think that replacing the big pad by proper thermal paste should be good enough...

Did you guys experience any overheating issues ? Do you know if you have a fan or not ? On the specs, it says that the fan goes on at 50°c but it seems to be a typo as not all Master have one.

Thanks !

Tim

[EUCzero]

I am pretty sure you NEED the electrical isolation on the mosfets.
I looked into this some years ago on my MSX, and the pads could not be replaced with paste only.

Anyway. Master is running cool compared to many other wheels. So should not be a problem. Just make sure you have good airflow in the wheel well as the cooling finns are there. Some front protections kind of interfere with the cooling airflow.

[Cerbera]

16 minutes ago, Timwheel said:

Do any of you know if they are prone to overheating ?

I didn't think they were prone to overheat - in fact doesn't the Master have a reputation as being one the coolest running wheels in that class there is ?

My Master does not have a fan, yet my board temp never goes above 10 degrees over ambient, and that's with Grizzla handles obscuring the air flow a little. But then again I never ever ride mine at those sorts of speeds. What tyre do you use for that sort of thing ?

Edited February 21, 2023 by Cerbera

[Timwheel]

14 minutes ago, EUCzero said:

I am pretty sure you NEED the electrical isolation on the mosfets.
I looked into this some years ago on my MSX, and the pads could not be replaced with paste only.

Anyway. Master is running cool compared to many other wheels. So should not be a problem. Just make sure you have good airflow in the wheel well as the cooling finns are there. Some front protections kind of interfere with the cooling airflow.

There are two pads: the first ones are directly under the mosfets (I'll keep them) and the second one is a large one that bridges the gap between the aluminium flat piece and the heatsink that is part of the wheel. The first ones are indeed critical. The second one not so much, as if it was needed the mosftes would already short each other on the mainboard.

[Mango]

Just finished refreshing my Master.

Installed new charging board (fix battery balancing) and new transistor (cold weather no display/light fix) as supplied by my reseller. Tight fit. Fairly straight-forward installation. Kafuter'd all the screws and connections.

One issue I had was vibration noise when I applied torque rocking back and forth. Tightening all the axle and chassis screws did nothing and still had the noise. After a few minutes. I found the culprit as being one of the top cover thumb screw threads was stripped so the top cover wasn't held down properly. The top cover has to be securely tightened to remove the vibration noise. I had to use a stainless steel 3mm thread repair screw and retap the stripped screw hole with m5 0.5. The soft aluminum is easy to strip. May do the remaining three with stainless steel inserts.

Updated the firmware v2.2 to the latest version (fix the 999.9 mileage). Held down the power button while waiting for the Begode app to finish the updating process.

Re-lubed the suspension sliders and re-greased the suspension links and top up air in wheel and shock.

Overall, a needed and refreshing update/upgrade on my Master. It runs like new. Love this wheel.

[Cerbera]

38 minutes ago, Mango said:

Kafuter'd all the screws and connections.

You Kafutere'd the screws ? How will you ever get them out again should you blow the board ?! Or have I misunderstood ?

[Mango]

Just a dab of Kafuter on the side of the screws in the same manner as the original factory aplication.

[mrelwood]

13 hours ago, Timwheel said:

There are two pads: the first ones are directly under the mosfets (I'll keep them) and the second one is a large one that bridges the gap between the aluminium flat piece and the heatsink that is part of the wheel. The first ones are indeed critical. The second one not so much, as if it was needed the mosftes would already short each other on the mainboard.

Before you do any modding the most critical components of your wheel, you need to have a very clear electrical AND mechanical understanding of what you’re doing. I’m sure even Begode doesn’t install pads that are there for no other reason than to weaken the thermal properties of the mosfets.

 What material are each of the pads? What thickness?

 And on the mechanical part: If you remove anything from between the mosfets and the cooling block, the mosfets no longer lay flat on the block with correct pressure. That is probably the biggest risk here, and could easily end up frying the mosfets at a sudden strong power requirement. Just like we saw with the bad user installs on the V12 mainboard.

 

38 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

You Kafutere'd the screws ? How will you ever get them out again should you blow the board ?! Or have I misunderstood ?

Kafuter is like silicone, you can just cut and scratch it off pretty well.

[Cerbera]

17 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Kafuter is like silicone, you can just cut and scratch it off pretty well.

Oh OK - I was thinking that was a metaloid. If it's similar to the black gunk that was all over my MB screws when I did the same operation that very much annoyed me that they had got it all over the head, where the driver goes, and I found it supremely difficult to remove such that the driver would get good grip again. 

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Oh OK - I was thinking that was a metaloid. If it's similar to the black gunk that was all over my MB screws when I did the same operation that very much annoyed me that they had got it all over the head, where the driver goes, and I found it supremely difficult to remove such that the driver would get good grip again. 

No, Kafuter is the white stuff they often put around the connectors.

[Timwheel]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Before you do any modding the most critical components of your wheel, you need to have a very clear electrical AND mechanical understanding of what you’re doing. I’m sure even Begode doesn’t install pads that are there for no other reason than to weaken the thermal properties of the mosfets.

 What material are each of the pads? What thickness?

 And on the mechanical part: If you remove anything from between the mosfets and the cooling block, the mosfets no longer lay flat on the block with correct pressure. That is probably the biggest risk here, and could easily end up frying the mosfets at a sudden strong power requirement. Just like we saw with the bad user installs on the V12 mainboard.

 

Kafuter is like silicone, you can just cut and scratch it off pretty well.

You are right. But I am an engineer and I worked on LMP1 cars, which are complex electrical systems machines.I've worked on EUC too but I'm not a specialist so I asked for advices. Just because I know complex electrical systems doesn't mean I know all there is to know about the master The flat part will be levelled using high quality thermal paste as they are on cpu dies.

I think they use thermal pad because it is cheaper and easier to install, just that, but I may be wrong...

 

Tim

[Mrd777]

19 hours ago, Mango said:

Held down the power button while waiting for the Begode app to finish the updating process.

 

can you elaborate on this, holding down the power button to update?

[Grimm10]

Hey guys, I ordered these new design linkage plates from AliExpress, but no instructions were included.  Does anyone here know in what orientation these mount up?  Can someone provide a simple drawing?

Edited February 23, 2023 by Grimm10

[Paul A]

52 minutes ago, Grimm10 said:

what orientation

 

Haven't watched.

Might help.

 

Begode Master RockShox Suspension Kuba Linkage install guide & First Ride Test

EUC Adventures

Aug 29, 2022

 

Hello guys, Here is bit of a guide to install the suspension upgrades... They perform really good and u get more travel from your shock itself but not the travel of the wheel...

 

 

[Rawnei]

 

[Mango]

On 2/22/2023 at 5:55 PM, Mrd777 said:

can you elaborate on this, holding down the power button to update?

Yes, hold down the power button will make the Master beep every 3 second or so, then press the Update Firmware in the Begode app. After about 2-3 minutes, the firmware process will complete.

Not holding down the power button may result in the Master turning off during the update process and will result in a bricked Master.

[Cerbera]

Another day, another trap / fuck-up-in-waiting about the Master...

Roger and Dawn to thank for this one, who are drawing our attention to the heatskink problem in potentially all Masters, Master Pros AND EX's, in which the mainboards which only have corner screws are tightened down such that the centre of the board has an air gap between it and the metal heatsink underneath. This results in individual components of the mainboard getting unnecessarily hot and burning out under stress in areas where an air gap exists. Apparently this should be of concern even if our system temperatures report normal and cool (Master should be running just 10 degrees above ambient temp). Anyway, here is Dawn, sorting that out, in an entertainingly experimental sort of way

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Cerbera

[Paul A]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

Another day

 

Being an owner of Begode seems to be very labor intensive.

Having to constantly monitor/read a forum such as this one, to keep abreast of the latest problem to have surfaced, is only but one of the numerous efforts required.

Does it seem likely that the currently vaunted EX30, or any Begode, will actually be different, and be of quality?

 

Would you purchase another Begode in the future?

 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Being an owner of Begode seems to be very labor intensive.

Yes it can be. Certainly when you first get the wheel, and then at periodic points when preventative surgery becomes necessary !

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Having to constantly monitor/read a forum such as this one, to keep abreast of the latest problem to have surfaced, is only but one of the numerous efforts required.

I'd say most problems / warnings /discoveries end up here eventually, so reading the one thread about your model should cover most traps / problems that its wider ridership find with it. I don't consider it much of an issue / effort to keep up with that, and view it rather as an occupational hazard, or rather should I say Occupational Hazard Avoidance ! Sometimes I am reluctantly impelled to do something I really don't want to, but I am usually glad I did in the end for the extra peace of mind it gives me whilst out riding. At no other time in human history has there been better opportunity for connection between riders world-wide, and the free-sharing of knowledge like this is only to be celebrated, even though it often brings us worrying news.

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Does it seem likely that the currently vaunted EX30, or any Begode, will actually be different, and be of quality?

Yes it does. And we know this because we know Begode listen to criticism, and quickly improve / iterate better solutions; if they can in future batches of the same model, and going forward into newer / related models. Master was a much better build than anything before it, EX-30 is a much better build than Master, and I see no reason for that trend not to continue given the relentless baying about safety we have all done for the last 3 years, which have not fallen on deaf ears.

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Would you purchase another Begode in the future?

Yes I think so, and especially if I was supported by a dealer as good as Speedyfeet have been with me so far. Their ride software, ride feel, and commitment to improvement is enough to keep me a customer for now - even though the V13 has shown us all how these things could be built at the next level. I will be very interested to see if Begode can rise alongside it, and if they can I will probably give them another go when it is new wheel time. If I didn't get a Master recently and had my wheely budget over again I would be seriously torn between V13 and EX-30. The EX-30 is essentially what I wanted the Master to be, except even bigger and heavier.

I don't blame Begode that I was impatient and couldn't wait for the next gen to come around...

Edited March 1, 2023 by Cerbera

[Cerbera]

In a further indication of how excellent a good dealer can be just had 2 emails from mine addressing Dawn's video with his own 'technician's thoughts on that fix.

He notes that the unexpected cutoffs have not been reported in their batches so far, and that overly thick layers of thermal grease may not be more effective than a thin layer, and pointing out that the gel pad Begode have been placing between main and upper boards in recent batches not only damps vibrations that have been causing wheel jitter in some machines, but also pushes down the centre section of that lower board such that better contact is made with the heatsink over the entire area of the board.

I remain uncertain if I should redo mine or not - it would be very helpful if I had a thermal camera I could point at areas of the board as it was on, to show me heat spots to help me decide if it was necessary, otherwise I will be doing the same inspections as Dawn did in 150 miles time when mine is due for its 1000 mile self-service, where we look at the inside of the MB tray, and see where contact is not being made.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Cerbera

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

Master was a much better build than anything before it, EX-30 is a much better build than Master, and I see no reason for that trend not to continue

The later MSX models seemed to have far fewer issues than the Master though. So while the old issues are being patched, new ones keep arising since the design process doesn’t seem very complete.

 And by the time a Begode model can be deemed reasonably problem free at around batch 6, they already scratch the model and stop producing spare parts. It’s really hard to foresee a good time window to buy a Begode.

[Timwheel]

On 2/21/2023 at 6:27 PM, Timwheel said:

Hello world !

 

I've been enjoying my master for 1300km now, using it almost exclusively above 60 kph and accelerating/braking very hard. The wheel has performed perfectly so far.

However, now that it's 15°C outside, I already see spikes above 50°c... that doesn't look very promising for the summer. Do any of you know if they are prone to overheating ? i know some masters have fans and some don't, mine is a 2nd batch and I haven't disassembled it yet. I run the 70% PWM custom FW for safety, however I'm wondering if i'll have to mod it to cool down properly... it seems that there is pad between the transfer plate (where the mostfets are laying on) and the heatsink. I think that the electrical isolation is already managed under the mosfets, so I think that replacing the big pad by proper thermal paste should be good enough...

Did you guys experience any overheating issues ? Do you know if you have a fan or not ? On the specs, it says that the fan goes on at 50°c but it seems to be a typo as not all Master have one.

Thanks !

Tim

 

7 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Another day, another trap / fuck-up-in-waiting about the Master...

Roger and Dawn to thank for this one, who are drawing our attention to the heatskink problem in potentially all Masters, Master Pros AND EX's, in which the mainboards which only have corner screws are tightened down such that the centre of the board has an air gap between it and the metal heatsink underneath. This results in individual components of the mainboard getting unnecessarily hot and burning out under stress in areas where an air gap exists. Apparently this should be of concern even if our system temperatures report normal and cool (Master should be running just 10 degrees above ambient temp). Anyway, here is Dawn, sorting that out, in an entertainingly experimental sort of way

 

Turns out I was right on it ! I knew the bad thermal management didn't make sense....

 

I'll probably do it, I'll keep you posted.

[Mango]

Begode only exists because of online sharing of information and social media echo chamber from some influencers.

If pre-Internet, Begode brand's quality is so bad no dealer will want to service such wheels, thusly will not carry this brand.

But DIY warranty is a thing, and if one is so inclined, Begode can be purchased for cheap. The current reseller value of Begode is way overpriced for what one is getting.

[Cerbera]

5 hours ago, Mango said:

The current reseller value of Begode is way overpriced for what one is getting.

Well it depends what you get a bit doesn't it ? I have already had 3 free replacement parts for the Master from my dealer in the first coupla months I had it, I've got someone I can email any time with a direct open line to Begode, who will get back to me when he says he will, and exceptional dealers can even get superior parts made and distributed to replace spares they can't source any more. My dealer also extends warranty to 3 years and does yearly back-to-base inspections and fixes as part of the service. They really DO add value.

That makes them worth their weight in gold for me, and justifies the sort of prices we see, which are going to be high anyway given the relatively small numbers of us who buy these things...

Edited March 2, 2023 by Cerbera