Begode EX20S 3600wh: 100V, suspension, 104lb

[EMA]

9 minutes ago, Chriull said:

As @Kekafuchasked, this should depend on how thick/protective the encasings of the exposed batteries are compared to the just wrapped batteries covered by some ?thin plastic shell? as usually done with many wheels.

Or depending on the detailed contruction they could be "just" as dangerous?

i could agree but i never seen a battery damage from falling as i seen with s18, even the ultra abused RS family wheels . but maybe is just me

[btl]

Perhaps its the working prototype, without the encapsulating shell... Otherwise, add a layer of baby tape, or two :-)

[Scoo]

4 hours ago, EMA said:

first EX with 2700wh is 38kg

Last gen M24pro is 40kg

this shit is 47kg (abrams brother at 45kg)  ... unbuyable to me 

Aha, I took the "rough weight" from Begodes specs. What ever that mean :D.

I have not tried anything heavier than V11 which is around 27 kg, going +20kg from that, about 75% more weight seems to heavy.

 

From the specs i rather go with S20 with:

S20 130 mm vs EX2 80 mm suspension travel

S20 36 kg? vs  EX2 47 kg

S20 2220 wh vs EX2 2020 wh (Maybe the 2020wh LFP is usable further down % so maybe same range)

 

LFP might be safer during failure.

The problem I see is they don't fix the reason of fire just make it less dangerous during failure.  The failures from my understanding is due to unsafe design of everything around the battery and not due to the chemistry. 

[Rawnei]

Haha, no thanks, ugly, heavy, low weight to battery ratio, don't think this thing will sell too well.

[Ronin]

I genuinely thought it was a joke but unfortunately it wasn't. The first EX was the most powerful suspension euc, 40mph top speed, paired with a beautiful design. This EX 2 has nothing to do with the first EX, is heavier and slower.... Hard pass!!! As a matter of fact, im getting extra parts for my EX, i ain't decommissioning it anytime soon with all these slow ugly suspension wheels announced for 2022....  I love begode wheels but I don't follow on this one and I'm disappointed by this. I was expecting a natural iteration and instead got something completely off. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Ronin Ryder

[Tawpie]

Is Begode throwing the pasta against the wall to see what will stick?

[Unbihexium]

I actually really like this idea aside from the weight. 

It's definitely a kneejerk reaction to the begode fires, but there's a lot of benefit that LiFePo cells bring to an EUC despite the weight increase. If this wheel is designed to be truly solid then it could be an incredible wheel for safety and reliability (although there's a good chance Begode will screw up with some obvious bad design like always). 

This ugly duckling has potential for a great ride with that torque motor + suspension and the batteries wont be as susceptible to voltage sag which is a huge plus. 

Sadly I can already see that it will sell badly just like the EX did and will never get whatever love it might actually deserve.

I really hope Begode doesn't just end up seeing people turn their nose up at this wheel because the weight is high and the nominal watt hours are low. In that case they'll probably just end up going back to their old ways of pushing the highest possible specs for the lowest price with the lowest quality. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Ehhmmm...

 

[DavidB]

On 12/16/2021 at 4:15 AM, ugoaps said:

Looks better already!

 

Supercurio... lots of vids on the net of nails and drills being driven into these things (LFP batteries) without much effect. I don't think you need to worry about rocks hitting batteries but more about 50kgs of something angular hitting you in a crash.

Still there probably is a place for LFP in EUCs (hot climates, apartments etc) but not in this form. Maybe small 14inch wheels first. You could leave it in your car without worrying about coming back to a bondfire.

Edited December 17, 2021 by DavidB

[The Fat Unicyclist]

On 12/17/2021 at 1:40 AM, Scoo said:

Aha, I took the "rough weight" from Begodes specs. What ever that mean :D.

I take "rough weight" to be the same as "gross weight".

[wheelyboy]

Can anyone summarize the benefits of lithium iron phosphate 

 

That's about the only thing interesting to me about this wheel LOL

[RagingGrandpa]

1 hour ago, wheelyboy said:

Can anyone summarize the benefits of lithium iron phosphate 

Lots of explanation in the RS:RS thread below:
https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/25949-begode-rs-resolute-the-first-euc-using-lfp-battery-chemistry/

TL;DR: you can overcharge, short-circuit, and puncture them without causing a fire.

[meepmeepmayer]

T

3 hours ago, wheelyboy said:

Can anyone summarize the benefits of lithium iron phosphate 

 

That's about the only thing interesting to me about this wheel LOL

They can't easily burn, even if punctured. And they offer notably better peak/high stress performance.

The downside is only like 50-60% of standard Li Ion battery capacity but the same price/weight/space requirement.

[DavidB]

10 hours ago, wheelyboy said:

Can anyone summarize the benefits of lithium iron phosphate 

 

That's about the only thing interesting to me about this wheel LOL

Don't forget LFP have a very shallow voltage discharge drop. Not sure of latest software versions of say the KS 14D but many people said they were not really useable once you got below 50% with all the tiltback and throttling of speed that KS programmed in for safety. Theoretically you should be able to get more USABLE energy out of a LFP battery OF THE SAME CAPACITY as a Li-ion battery. That is say at 50% capacity the voltage drop is much less and available current discharge much greater than Li-ion batteries.

The biggest obstacle I think will be market perception. Capacity is a selling point. The Begode Rs Resolute vid with the  LFP being drilled had many comments along the lines of " Who would want a 1020Wh battery?" Whereas maybe a 1020 LFP battery gives the same performance as an 1800 Li-ion battery. The basic problem is the confusion of available capacity with available power. At low capacity LFP can still deliver good voltage and current. It may take the market some time to realise this.

It would be interesting to see a direct comparison range and rideability test between the standard Rs and the Resolute.

I made a comment elsewhere that maybe Begode would be better off introducing LFP in their smaller wheels where usability, practicality and safety are more important than numbers.

LFP are not so good in the cold. So those riding in snow may want to stick to Li-ion whereas those who live in Doha, Phoenix or Perth may feel more comfortable with LFP. 

I think Supercurio summed it up well.

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/25949-begode-rs-resolute-the-first-euc-using-lfp-battery-chemistry/

Let's not forget the fast charging. Watched Kelly's vid of ride to the Ocean. They seemed to spend more time charging than riding. Maybe this is the way to go. No need to carry huge batteries if you can do a quick charge at a Cafe/burger joint.

Edit, one other thing. With the Resolute they upped the voltage so increased speed but should, I suspect, still have the torque of the RS. Speed of HS and torque of HT. Best of both.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by DavidB

[supercurio]

It's unfortunate that Begode completely missed the game changing opportunity for fast charging with their 2 announced LFP wheels.

* Wrong connector with only 2 of 3 pins active.

* Unspecified max charging supported by the BMS.

Imagine if they announced 30A charging support, with an optional 5-10-15A charger available for $150

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by supercurio

[Paradox]

Aliexpress is showing two versions of this wheel.   One 100v.  One 116.8v.  I guess its safer batteries or range, your choice.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003696008251.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.1.6f2f2b82BHIxNb

[PharmaCyclist]

2 hours ago, Paradox said:

Aliexpress is showing two versions of this wheel.   One 100v.  One 116.8v.  I guess its safer batteries or range, your choice.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003696008251.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.1.6f2f2b82BHIxNb

Saw this also, I the EX2S is 3600 wh and $3649...are you sure it's not LiFePO4?

 

[Paradox]

1 minute ago, PharmaCyclist said:

Saw this also, I the EX2S is 3600 wh and $3649...are you sure it's not LiFePO4?

I am not sure the 3600wh version is not LiFePO4.  It does more closely resemble the Monster Pro and Commander at 100V though.

[PharmaCyclist]

30 minutes ago, Paradox said:

I am not sure the 3600wh version is not LiFePO4.  It does more closely resemble the Monster Pro and Commander at 100V though.

True, I asked Wheel Riders Store to confirm, I'll let you know when I hear from them.

[Kekafuch]

Pricing on the LFP 2000wh EX2 is interesting… 

[PharmaCyclist]

8 minutes ago, Kekafuch said:

Pricing on the LFP 2000wh EX2 is interesting… 

Yes.  Wheel Riders Store is asking Begode details for me, they said they are just getting info and it's preorder right now of course.

[meepmeepmayer]

Guys, if the form factor and weight is the same, it's either 2040Wh LFP or 3600Wh with the standard Li Ion chemistry.

You'd need a ton of extra battery space for 3600Wh LFP, which does not seem to be there. The wheel would weigh like 10kg more, but both versions are listed as 47kg. The 100V vs. 116.8V also hints at that - why have different voltages if both are LFP? It's most likely just 3600Wh of the old non-LFP chemistry.

I'm afraid your hopes for 3600Wh LFP are futile.

[PharmaCyclist]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Guys, if the form factor and weight is the same, it's either 2040Wh LFP or 3600Wh with the standard Li Ion chemistry.

You'd need a ton of extra battery space for 3600Wh LFP, which does not seem to be there. The wheel would weigh like 10kg more, but both versions are listed as 47kg. The 100V vs. 116.8V also hints at that - why have different voltages if both are LFP? It's most likely just 3600Wh of the old non-LFP chemistry.

I'm afraid your hopes for 3600Wh LFP are futile.

I think this is most likely correct but I still want confirmation on all details from the manufacturer.  I'm not sure anyone is hoping for the EX2S to be LiFePO4 since it seems unlikely, just wanting to confirm either way.  Wheel Riders Store wasn't even sure if the EX2 model itself is LiFePO4 yet.  

 

Maybe the "S" suffix means standard/Li-ion cells.  That seems very possible.

Edited December 20, 2021 by PharmaCyclist

[Greg X]

it seems, there are 2 different versions Ex2: 100v/3600wh, 116v/2040wh

https://ibb.co/hCWRpjb

3600wh looks better, but also much more expensive (almost 1200usd).

Edited December 20, 2021 by Greg X

[PharmaCyclist]

7 hours ago, Greg X said:

it seems, there are 2 different versions Ex2: 100v/3600wh, 116v/2040wh

https://ibb.co/hCWRpjb

3600wh looks better, but also much more expensive (almost 1200usd).

Yes, we've been discussing this above.  The 3600wh version is called the EX2S.