Tawpie Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, novazeus said: do we know which battery version the s22 has? IF and only IF you bought from eWheels you got LG 40T high drain cells, S22 ships with LG M50LT cells for everyone else Edited February 21, 2023 by Tawpie oops, screwed that one up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, novazeus said: do we know which battery version the s22 has? eWheels / Samsung 40T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 i'm asking about the guy demonstrating that his s22 stock won't climb that hill but he says the new 4000 motor does it easily. which battery version does he have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, novazeus said: i'm asking about the guy demonstrating that his s22 stock won't climb that hill but he says the new 4000 motor does it easily. which battery version does he have? hard to tell, it depends on where he bought it AND on whether or not his firmware was updated past v2.25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, Tawpie said: hard to tell, it depends on where he bought it AND on whether or not his firmware was updated past v2.25. i went back and looked. said he was on latest firmware before changing motors. no mention about batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 6 hours ago, Crab said: Highest free spin I have logged is 58.5 Yea it was like 37 percent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 @Crab what firmware version did your pro ship with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Tawpie said: @Crab what firmware version did your pro ship with? V2.26, I was hoping to get a ride in this weekend but no joy with the rain. Instead I’ve been adding some little things to emulate a dash cam and additional lighting for night riding safety. Edited February 21, 2023 by Crab 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Crab said: V2.26 I wonder if KS has different firmware for different battery packs and can recognize the pack now. @novazeus's Moli S18 on 2.19 knew he has 40T capacity, but my retrofitted moli S18 on 2.19 still thinks it has 1110 Wh. Similarly, 2.26 isn't available in the KS app for my M50LT S22, only 2.27. My understanding of motor "wattage" is that it's a measure of how much heat the motor structure can dissipate, but am also under the impression that the actual current delivered to the motor is entirely under firmware control and is not necessarily directly coupled to the motor's wattage rating. It could be if the controller was aware of the attached motor... We do know from EcoDrift that the pro motor has slightly wider magnets which is expected to provide more torque than the amateur—I wonder if it's just the motor of if it's a combination of the motor and firmware? Who knows, and it probably doesn't really matter. At least until I have to walk up a hill... then it'll matter big time! Edited February 21, 2023 by Tawpie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Btw I noticed on my last ride I got close to 4000w logged as max watts, but it appears my normal average peak is more like 2500w. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uras Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 has anyone seen this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 idk what these numbers mean, but the s22 probably fares better than i do on my pasture rides. when ur in an open field, the wind can really gain momentum and about 2000' into my trek, i got hit by a gust, leaned into it, and fell over. starting to feel like a football player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 17 minutes ago, Uras said: has anyone seen this? Yea cool vid but I won’t be doing that… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Uras said: has anyone seen this? yeah, I like his stuff. He's, how shall we say... "quite good". Not that he practices a lot or anything. I think that's my problem. Well one of them anyway... I don't have the courage, and I don't like that much practice! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunTech4Real Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 8 hours ago, Tawpie said: I wonder if KS has different firmware for different battery packs and can recognize the pack now. @novazeus's Moli S18 on 2.19 knew he has 40T capacity, but my retrofitted moli S18 on 2.19 still thinks it has 1110 Wh. Similarly, 2.26 isn't available in the KS app for my M50LT S22, only 2.27. My understanding of motor "wattage" is that it's a measure of how much heat the motor structure can dissipate, but am also under the impression that the actual current delivered to the motor is entirely under firmware control and is not necessarily directly coupled to the motor's wattage rating. It could be if the controller was aware of the attached motor... We do know from EcoDrift that the pro motor has slightly wider magnets which is expected to provide more torque than the amateur—I wonder if it's just the motor of if it's a combination of the motor and firmware? Who knows, and it probably doesn't really matter. At least until I have to walk up a hill... then it'll matter big time! FYI my boyfriend and I share this account... he is the one who did the S22 motor test. Our S22 is from ewheels and has 40T cells and it was already on the latest firmware before the motor swap. The S22 firmware is aware of the the 40T cells and we have information from a reliable source that Kingsong has optimized the power output for the 40T cells. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFartRides Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 8 hours ago, Crab said: V2.26, I was hoping to get a ride in this weekend but no joy with the rain. Instead I’ve been adding some little things to emulate a dash cam and additional lighting for night riding safety. Vintage land yacht I see… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 hours ago, OldFartRides said: Vintage land yacht I see… Took it to Shelton last summer for autox. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFartRides Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Ooh, not a yacht. Sporty ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrP-MrF Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 9 hours ago, YourAubsome said: FYI my boyfriend and I share this account... he is the one who did the S22 motor test. Our S22 is from ewheels and has 40T cells and it was already on the latest firmware before the motor swap. The S22 firmware is aware of the the 40T cells and we have information from a reliable source that Kingsong has optimized the power output for the 40T cells. That's shit because EU customer can't order those version... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 24 minutes ago, MrP-MrF said: That's shit because EU customer can't order those version... If I’m not mistaken it’s an Ewheels exclusive deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunTech4Real Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 33 minutes ago, MrP-MrF said: That's shit because EU customer can't order those version... you can thank KingSong for that. Ewheels forced them to make a version with good battery cells... The LG cells that come in the S22 are garbage... they are extremely sensitive to temperature and their discharge rate becomes totally unacceptable unless they are operating in an ideal temperature range that is very small. Below is the ratings of the LG cells in the S22, along with the maximum output of the 120 cells combined in the S22 for each temperature range. 2.4 amps @ -20-10C (-4*F to 50*F) - 1,045 watts maximum discharge!!! 14.4 amps @ 10-25C (50*F to 77*F) - 6,338 watts maximum discharge. The cells will rarely stay in this temp range for long 7.2 amps @ 25-55C (77*F to 131*F) - 3,169 watts maximum discharge. This is the temp range the cells will be in after riding for a while in moderate temperatures Riding a S22 with LG cells when the battery is below 50*F is flat out dangerous. I doubt that they limit the power down to 1,045 watts, which means you are discharging the cells way beyond what they are rated for, which could lead to a battery fire happening at some point in the future (just like all the Begode wheels that have gone up in flames using nearly identical LG cells). The S22 with Samsung 50T cells is a different story. Those cells are rated for a combined power output of 15,120 watts at any temperature ( -4*F to 140*F). from LG M50T spec sheet: 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Just now, YourAubsome said: you can thank KingSong for that. Ewheels forced them to make a version with good battery cells... The LG cells that come in the S22 are garbage... they are extremely sensitive to temperature and their discharge rate becomes totally unacceptable unless they are operating in an ideal temperature range that is very small. Below is the ratings of the LG cells in the S22, along with the maximum output of the 120 cells combined in the S22 for each temperature range. 2.4 amps @ -20-10C (-4*F to 50*F) - 1,045 watts maximum discharge!!! During winter, we've seen many riders here experiencing the BMS reporting cell temps below 5℃ after less than an hour of riding. Initially, they opted for pretty strict speed limiting down to 30km/h when the cells were getting towards 5℃, to match what you saw here in the datasheet. It was relaxed however in v2.25 since it made the wheel barely usable for most riders in colder climates, so now you can see that it's not as strict. I'm not sure what really justify this 0.5C recommendation, aside from concerns on the voltage drop associated with higher internal resistance at lower temps. Cells should be fine being discharged at lower temperatures after all so there's something I might be missing here. What is definitely problematic is charging at low temps which will lead to accelerated degradation up to permanent damage if going low enough. And we tend to charge at significant current each time there's regen braking so.. I personally didn't ride much my S22 this winter because of that as the metallic battery boxes are a little too good at being heatsink, compared plastic casing of older shells. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 On 2/20/2023 at 10:20 PM, litewave said: Can you post links for the spoons and grease you use(d)? Sure thing! Here’s the grease (I went with a spray version, but will probably get the solid stuff in a jar next time): https://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/6000687/AT-Asennusvoiteluaine-suojakumeille-ja-renkaille-400-ml And here are the tire spoons: https://m.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/383860/Super-B-Classic-rengasraudat-3-kpl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunTech4Real Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) Comparison of the S22 sliders/suspension with 3rd party sliders to the T4, S18, and V11: https://www.facebook.com/75401032/videos/492029143135466/ Edited February 21, 2023 by YourAubsome 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan12345 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 On 2/10/2023 at 4:09 PM, fbhb said: @litewave there is seemingly some confusion around the slider channel width of the OG KS S22 and the upcoming KS S22 Pro and hopefully this information below will help to clarify. The slider channels have NOT been made any wider, it is ONLY the width of the slot that has been increased to allow for the wider middle section of the KS S22 Pro sliders themselves, due to the offset rollers being attached with 5mm screws and needing more meat to accommodate the 5mm threaded holes! Therefore, both versions of the New King Song sliders definitely use the very same 24mm roller, however King Song chose the wrong "tapered" instead of a round profile POM roller which unfortunately are prone to break/split very easily. The rollers they chose can ONLY make contact on the 2 very narrow outer edges/arc of the rollers, thus creating undue stress on each roller instead of spreading the load over the wider curved surface of the 24mm wide rollers ALL the CNC versions until now have been using. The drawings below show the difference between the 2 versions dimensions through the middle section, the OG version being 5mm press fit Pro version 5mm screw fit. Version 1.0 press fit rollers, 8mm body between slider slot Version 2.0 screw fixing for the rollers, with much wider 12mm body between the slider slot In the Ecodrift teardown the difference was pointed out in various photos. Kingsong S22 Pro. Disassembling — ECODRIFT OG KS S22 narrow slider slot. KS S22 Pro wider slot (channel is still approx. 26mm wide). KS S22 Por wider bodied slider to accommodate the 5mm screw mounting used. I have personally been holding off on ordering an S22 until the issues were sorted, which seems to be the case now with the KS S22 Pro, apart from this oversight with speccing the wrong rollers. However, this can easily be rectified by replacing the King Song 5mmx24mmx7mm tapered rollers with tried and tested round profile 6mmx24mmx7mm, sleeved down to accommodate the 5mm screw mounting that King Song have used. These stainless-steel tubes I found on Ali Express have the correct dimensions to allow for a light press fit into the 6mmx24mmx7mm roller bearing inner race, albeit just 1mm shorter in length (tube is 5mm deep and bearing is 6mm deep) This will be my solution to the KS S22 Pro's "tapered" failure prone POM rollers, if indeed King Song DO NOT rectify it themselves (WHICH IS DOUBTFUL!) https://tinyurl.com/20pcs-Stainless-Tube-Spacer 20 pack "6x5mm hole 4.8mm" is the description on Ali (5mm screw/bolt fits through the 4.8mm hole perfectly) 6mmx24mmx7mm round profile POM roller with a sleeve pressed flush with the inner race. 6mmx24mmx7mm round profile POM roller showing the sleeve 1mm shy of the other side of the inner race. (This will have NO impact in use/function/durability IMO, given the light press fit involved). One last point of note: King Song are using Philips screws to fix their rollers which I definitely do not like and will swap them out to either thin profile stainless-steel socket cap heads or button head socket caps. If using a 5mm countersunk cap screw inserted from the 1mm recess end, it actually works perfectly to accommodate the tapered head and also adding additional clearance at the same time. So I can see now in evees teardown there are hex screws and white round profile pom rollers. Just to clarify. Is this the latest batch direct from Kingong? As I have the option to wait for this next batch or take an old pro batch right now. I'd rather wait if I know I'm going to get these two upgrades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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