Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Tawpie]

12 hours ago, Crab said:

If I’m understanding this correctly I should be able to go as low as 90v safely?

I'm pretty sure KS goes into "no more riding" mode (extreme tiltback) at about 3.15V/cell. 94 V is the end of the line, and mind the sharp drop-off—the end comes very quickly!

I get conservative with my speed at 35% indicated, I interpret that as "less than 10, probably more like 5 more miles until I revert to one of the feet people"

[novazeus]

like i've been saying, this has been happening to quite a few others. a guy posted the same problem on this forum feb 7. 

so maybe king song and freemotion know what is happening now. doesn't seem to be any correlation with use because i've been riding the last two charge cycles exclusively on my road, and operating just fine. running the batteries down to 70% and recharging to 97% because of the 97/100% pack imbalance. but nbd, batteries looked fine. then this today. complete weirdness after trolleying it inside 50 yards away, and no problems. only after charging it did it do error 27 and full tiltback. had to manually push and carry it back outside. and now it thinks it's fine. 

like if king song or freemotion just said oh yeah, we know what that is, nbd, it won't burn down ur house or cut off on u while riding, whether true or not, but hopefully some logical reason behind their guarantee.

particularly disconcerting this new weird behavior happens coming off fully charging, which seems like a theme in some of these latest news stories. i just hope there isn't some overcharging type safety thing going on. idk, but like i said, happened right after fully charging the wheel.

Edited March 8, 2023 by novazeus

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Crab said:

Whelp, those are the 'pro' rails, so that's probably a good thing. Did they perchance have installation instructions? When I put mine in, I probably have them facing the wrong way (it was the right way back then, but now I think it's backwards but have no idea and haven't had any issues).

Be sure to candle the wheels. Large bubbles are a definite do-not-bother, I don't know how large or how deep is ok but I put my 'perfect' wheels at the top and bottom in the forward facing locations since pictures of wear on the 4 roller systems indicate they wear much more quickly on the ends of the forward edge.

[Crab]

No instructions, hopefully it’s obvious how they go…if I have issues I’ll just ask Hou, he is active on FB. Apparently bottom wheel faces fwd.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Crab

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, Crab said:

Apparently bottom wheel faces fwd

Thx. Yeah, mine are backwards then! I'm at about 300 miles and the system doesn't feel to have changed so I'll leave them as is until my replacement motor happens (still waiting) and then see how they're holding up. When I candled my wheels I couldn't see much when the entire thing was lit so I pointed a small (very bright) flashlight into the bottom of the 'tire' in the same plane as the wheel, then rotated the wheel. It was kind of nice because bubbles showed clearly as they moved from the very light to the not-so-light area. Otherwise (lighting the entire thing from the side) everything was so bright I couldn't see anything at all.

I had to use my "old bad eyes" magnifying hat too. But I was likely being way too picky!

You can almost see a smallish longish bubble in this picture, it's the grayish streak centered and just to the left of the demarcation line between very light and not-so-light. Shows up better IRL. It was probably ok, but it ended up in my reject pile (I have lots in that pile, now I have to find something to use them for!)

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Tawpie

[Crab]

I found 8 of the 33 sent looked good, same with my old eyes.👀

[NErider]

I didn't check any of my wheels. I just bolted the rails down with a dab of blue lock tight, wiped out the rails and put it all back together. I'll run it for a while, then pull it apart again when I get around to ordering proper length suspension pivot hardware. 

[FunTech4Real]

On 2/26/2023 at 10:51 PM, litewave said:

Are the sliders you refer to:

1. the KS v.1 set that had defects and required 4 of the 8 wheels per rail to be removed?

2. the aftermarket sliders from the EUC company in Romania or other nearby country?

3. the eWheels Hon Hou custom sliders?

a few companies make aftermarket ones that are good... I've tried #1 (I'm the one who found out that they work alright with 4 wheels) and the ones from ewheels and #3 you mentioned above. 

[Flygonial]

Pinned motor from Eevees arrived, ordered 6-roller sliders from Ningning, though there is a bit of a lead time as he needs to manufacture more of them. I would infer that either he keeps less of them in stock or they're more popular thanks to a combination of aftermarket support (like printed dust guards) and losing less suspension travel than using 8 rollers. The printed sliders have still served me well for probably about 500+ miles by now, and if anything I've felt as though they're as good or better than when I first installed them. I suspect it might be since I couldn't thoroughly clear out the channels of the old grease and I've been wiping down the exposed section of the sliders every time it rained, will make sure I'm able to fully clear it out when I open the wheel up again.

[anutheroneup]

On 3/15/2023 at 6:10 PM, Flygonial said:

ordered 6-roller sliders from Ningning

Where did you find 6-roller sliders from Hou Ningning?  The only ones I can find that match what you described (like printed dust guards) are from an Etsy seller EVVHEELER whose name is Tharnnatee Nitinandana and lives in Bangkok, Thailand - but the EVVHEELER Etsy seller does use Hou Ningning's name on their posting.  I just contacted Hou Ningning on Facebook who confirmed he sells 8-roller sliders with black rails (not silver) that have circlips and Hou lives in Dongguan, China and not Bangkok, Thailand.  Maybe the sliders on Etsy are good (I don't know) but I want to make sure we are not getting confused when people refer to Hou sliders (or Ningning sliders).  Where did you order the 6-roller Ningning sliders from?

 

[Rawnei]

3 hours ago, anutheroneup said:

Where did you find 6-roller sliders from Hou Ningning?  The only ones I can find that match what you described (like printed dust guards) are from an Etsy seller EVVHEELER whose name is Tharnnatee Nitinandana and lives in Bangkok, Thailand - but the EVVHEELER Etsy seller does use Hou Ningning's name on their posting.  I just contacted Hou Ningning on Facebook who confirmed he sells 8-roller sliders with black rails (not silver) that have circlips and Hou lives in Dongguan, China and not Bangkok, Thailand.  Maybe the sliders on Etsy are good (I don't know) but I want to make sure we are not getting confused when people refer to Hou sliders (or Ningning sliders).  Where did you order the 6-roller Ningning sliders from?

 

Ningning used to sell 6-wheel variant but not anymore, I think he sells the 8-wheeled ones exclusively now.

They are the best one you can get top notch quality and the circlips are super nice for maintenance.

[Flygonial]

23 hours ago, anutheroneup said:

Where did you find 6-roller sliders from Hou Ningning?  The only ones I can find that match what you described (like printed dust guards) are from an Etsy seller EVVHEELER whose name is Tharnnatee Nitinandana and lives in Bangkok, Thailand - but the EVVHEELER Etsy seller does use Hou Ningning's name on their posting.  I just contacted Hou Ningning on Facebook who confirmed he sells 8-roller sliders with black rails (not silver) that have circlips and Hou lives in Dongguan, China and not Bangkok, Thailand.  Maybe the sliders on Etsy are good (I don't know) but I want to make sure we are not getting confused when people refer to Hou sliders (or Ningning sliders).  Where did you order the 6-roller Ningning sliders from?

 

He didn’t have them in stock when I ordered but it seemed like I wasn’t willing to buy 8 rollers and he offered to mill out a six wheel set for me (albeit with about a week of lead time). 

When asked he also stated that he would be restocking the 6-wheel version given some time. I could imagine them being popular given you don’t really sacrifice suspension travel 

[redfoxdude]

I've also spoken with him about the 8-wheel design, which is currently only sacrificing about 10mm of travel (with the 8-wheel bottomed out, there is about 10mm left before the fender hits the linkage bracket/frame). He is planning on moving to a shorter 8-wheel design to address this in coming batches.

Edited March 22, 2023 by redfoxdude

[Elliott Reitz]

Best tire EVER!  Of course it takes skill to ride it this way.  But yea its worth it! 

 

[Dubardo]

Anyone knows if the s22 PRO still makes the grinding noise when accelerating?

 

 

[NErider]

I think that grind noise was narrowed down to the fender or other accessory vibrating? 

My "updated" Batch 1 S22 does it now. I don't think it did when new. But after taking it apart and reassembling so many times, something is slightly loose or misaligned. 

I'm not sure if the S22 Pro would prove to be any different over time. 

[spitfire1337]

Here's a new one I haven't seen yet. A friend/customer brought me their wheel to install the CNC sliders on. He waited until he rode the crap out the stock suspension and it just wouldn't work anymore. So ok, no biggy I can do the install. Well... When we say his suspension was seized, it was like a rock and not budging. I get the linkages apart and free the motor, still no budging. Spray some lube into the channels and let it soak through... Nothing.. So wtf...finally I set the wheel up right and push down and it moves! Ok we're getting somewhere, give the motor a pull from the bottom and it moves to be greeted by a THUD and stops... Hmm, try it again... Same thing, so I break out the flashlight and start checking the sliders. Nothing obvious is sticking out until... Bam, looked at the motor cable channel and find that a motor bolt came loose and ate it's way into the battery box. Well damn, ok let's try removing the pack and see if I can somehow get in there... Nope, the pack is also hitting that bolt 🤦Gonna reach out to AR tomorrow to see how they want to proceed.

Edited March 29, 2023 by spitfire1337

[chanman]

Yikes, that looks like a millimeter away from a disaster by wearing into a cell and shorting it out. I saw a couple posts on facebook where the bolts had gotten loose and started wearing into the box, but that's a decent bit of aluminum to get through and the terrible noises gave the problem away. Very important to have those bolts properly torqued and thread locked, especially if you swapped motors or something. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by chanman

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, spitfire1337 said:

Here's a new one I haven't seen yet. A friend/customer brought me their wheel to install the CNC sliders on. He waited until he rode the crap out the stock suspension and it just wouldn't work anymore. So ok, no biggy I can do the install. Well... When we say his suspension was seized, it was like a rock and not budging. I get the linkages apart and free the motor, still no budging. Spray some lube into the channels and let it soak through... Nothing.. So wtf...finally I set the wheel up right and push down and it moves! Ok we're getting somewhere, give the motor a pull from the bottom and it moves to be greeted by a THUD and stops... Hmm, try it again... Same thing, so I break out the flashlight and start checking the sliders. Nothing obvious is sticking out until... Bam, looked at the motor cable channel and find that a motor bolt came loose and ate it's way into the battery box. Well damn, ok let's try removing the pack and see if I can somehow get in there... Nope, the pack is also hitting that bolt 🤦Gonna reach out to AR tomorrow to see how they want to proceed.

I've seen the same thing once before, don't remember where (telegram maybe?) it's very curious as usually those screws are a pain to get out in the first place due to screws having slightly different countersunk angle than the hole so they get stuck in there.

[Paul A]

Instead of rollers...

Would machining parts to slide work?

 

 

[Rawnei]

36 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Instead of rollers...

Would machining parts to slide work?

 

 

Depends on how it works in dirty environments, but POM wheels work great and no doubt King Song is not going to put down more R&D and change this system now and 3rd party POM solutions works well and sells well already.

[mrelwood]

36 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Instead of rollers...

Would machining parts to slide work?

Like… the originals? No, it didn’t work.

 If you’re thinking about metal to metal like in the video, no matter how tight the tolerances are, there is a specific amount of friction to each material. And friction causes wear. Besides, we already know that KS and tolerances don’t belong even in the same paragraph.

The main problem with the original system was friction. On S18 it was tolerances. You can’t do better frictionwise than rollers with bearings.

[Paul A]

18 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

the tolerances

 

Seems to be zero tolerances, such that it is airtight.

Not sure how it addresses friction, thermal expansion/contraction, possiblity of misalignment over time, etc.

Not sure what the applications are.

 

Would probably be fine in dirty environments as no gap for anything to penetrate.

 

Seemed possibly interesting for S22 sliders.

 

Yes, the current CNC sliders and wheels seem to be working fine now.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Paul A

[spitfire1337]

9 hours ago, chanman said:

Yikes, that looks like a millimeter away from a disaster by wearing into a cell and shorting it out. I saw a couple posts on facebook where the bolts had gotten loose and started wearing into the box, but that's a decent bit of aluminum to get through and the terrible noises gave the problem away. Very important to have those bolts properly torqued and thread locked, especially if you swapped motors or something. 

Yes it's definitely close to a disaster, I had tried to remove that battery pack from the case and it moves just a bit and then hits the bolt too. All his bolts on that side of the motor have backed out a bit but that one is a bit scary. We're probably going to have to get a hack saw blade in there and cut the bolt head. That's the only way I can see getting it out, but I'm going to call AR today and see what they want to do. The wheel is 100% stock and this was the first upgrade he was doing.

[spitfire1337]

Little update, since all the bolts on that side were loose I was able to pry up the battery box just enough to get the bolt off of the pack and then slide that pack out. There's damage to the pack, thankfully the cell wasn't punctured or 2 cells bridged and shorted but the side of one cell was definitely ground down some. Now I'm fighting with the bolt to try and either tighten it some or get it out to be a le to pull the motor out while I wait for word back from alienrides.

Edited March 29, 2023 by spitfire1337