Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[techyiam]

 

10 minutes ago, YourAubsome said:

much better thank stock is not impressive in any way... the suspension should be super smooth and absorb every tiny bump. It should fully rebound and do it very quickly. It should feel like the absolute ideal suspension that blows away everything you have encountered on an EUC and makes you think "holy shit this is amazing".

That is indeed high praise you are giving to your S22 suspension. 

13 minutes ago, YourAubsome said:

I have yet to try a Sherman S, but everyone says its the best, but no one who has tried a Sherman S has tried the S22 with good CNC roller sliders

I am curious too as to how they compare. 

You need to get yours hands on a Sherman-S and compare. 

Any chance you can bum off a Sherman-S test ride in a group ride in your area?

 

[chanman]

I was quite impressed with the performance on big drops and potholes, I do think tiny bumps aren't quite as mitigated as they could be, but again huge improvement over stock. I took a shot at a video, best I could do as I don't record video or bounce up and down semi-professionally, but hopefully can give some validation https://imgur.com/a/jyFUbIB This is a few clicks towards hard and a few clicks towards slow from fully soft/fast, which I think is more optimized for bigger drops.

Anyway yeah goalposts here I guess, not as good as third party but way better than stock meets my bar for "acceptable for having received for free", and is very far from "complete shit"

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by chanman

[FunTech4Real]

12 minutes ago, techyiam said:

 

That is indeed high praise you are giving to your S22 suspension. 

I am curious too as to how they compare. 

You need to get yours hands on a Sherman-S and compare. 

Any chance you can bum off a Sherman-S test ride in a group ride in your area?

 

I was going to get one from one of the dealers then some not so nice people in the EUC facebook group stirred up drama which has put it on hold

[techyiam]

16 minutes ago, YourAubsome said:

I was going to get one from one of the dealers then some not so nice people in the EUC facebook group stirred up drama which has put it on hold

Really sorry to hear about the hiccup.

It appears the Sherman-S is selling well. It won't be long before they are everywhere. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by techyiam

[redfoxdude]

39 minutes ago, chanman said:

I was quite impressed with the performance on big drops and potholes, I do think tiny bumps aren't quite as mitigated as they could be, but again huge improvement over stock. I took a shot at a video, best I could do as I don't record video or bounce up and down semi-professionally, but hopefully can give some validation https://imgur.com/a/jyFUbIB This is a few clicks towards hard and a few clicks towards slow from fully soft/fast, which I think is more optimized for bigger drops.

Looks like the sliders are stiff/with a lot of stiction, to me, just like mine. It should just settle to its sag point by merely stepping on, without you needing to push at all. For example, you should be able to get it to move a little bit just by pressing gently on the top with your hand, without some minimum force to overcome and initiate motion.
I remember how impressed people were with some poorly aligned S18s back when they came out, and compared to mine after I put in all that work to get it aligned, it wasn't even close. It does feel decent for big drops and stuff, but it is not to its full potential. It gets way better =)

[chanman]

Yeah it doesn't move much until you get on it and there is initial force to overcome, but it does sag when stepping on most of the way. I tried to capture once you're on it does respond to very slight changes with small movements, even when not on the softest and fastest settings.

I actually thought that behavior was more due to the stiff spring used more than the sliders themselves, but I could see how slider stiction would need more initial force.

 

quick fully soft step on/off sag video https://imgur.com/a/fzV2z4b

Edited February 2, 2023 by chanman
video

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, Robse said:

In my younger days (hmmnnn, back then when the internet was just invented ) we did a lot of rack server installations, and used these ball bearing sliders.  They where not to destroy, and the shelf that was carried by them could easily carry a fat electrician.  I wonder why does KingSong not use this type of slider?

https://www.rackmountmart.com/html/chAss.htm

 

Then we're back to where we started: the dust and grit will destroy the sliders. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Tawpie

[Roadpower]

Rack sliders are not built for outdoor conditions and they aren't built for the kind of duty cycle these EUC sliders are undergoing. They're a nice idea but not applicable.

[Paul A]

Could the sliders be afforded some protection from dust, dirt?

Dry lubricant to assist?

[Tawpie]

38 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Could the sliders be afforded some protection from dust, dirt?

Dry lubricant to assist?

They're meant to be in a very clean and low humidity server room and are unlikely to have any 'real' protection against corrosion. They might work, but not for long. And they're far too wide.

[kiitick]

I'm just gonna put this out there again. If you're unhappy with the suspension, go try an og Sherman. I can tell night and day difference between the stock sliders and no suspension. My king song sliders work nearly as well as my 3rd party cnc aluminum. Yes, the were a few bad wheels in the package, but I just didn't use those. 

For all of you who have better ideas, go create something better, and if it's good, I'm sure some manufacturer will copy your idea. But it's incredibly discouraging to people looking to move from a non suspension wheel to see people post how the suspension is "shit" it's for sure not. It's the best suspension I've ridden, (granted, I have not ridden the v13 or Sherman s). Every person who's ridden my stock s22, my upgraded s22, and my s22 with King song new sliders and a street tire that's WAY out of balance agree, it's a comfy ride. It's a safer ride. 

BTW, right now, I'd be more than happy to trade my og Sherman for another s22. If you're interested, send me a pm. I'll happily take your "shit"suspension over no suspension at all.

Edited February 2, 2023 by kiitick

[novazeus]

try nylon. something like this in the correct size.

https://www.amazon.com/VKOMGH-10x40x10mmBearing-Spherical-Wheel6000ZZNylon-Construction/dp/B09WDVSZ85/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=Nylon+Roller+Bearing+Wheel&qid=1675309140&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFOQ1FKTUNLRzVFS0YmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA3NjI2ODExQkNWVzlLVjhRNlQxJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5NDY1MjkxRUw5SzBUVFRCQ09FJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

[Rawnei]

7 hours ago, chanman said:

I thought they were shit until I actually wore them in after install and now they're definitely usable and an improvement over stock. I don't have any third party ones to compare. Getting them installed correctly and without issues with the tolerances kinda sucked though.

If you have to wear them in then something is wrong, they should be moving smoothly from the start.

[chanman]

Something wrong is maybe the wheels are a little big and very tight in the channels, or the sliders are metal on metal grinding. Either of which breaking in will improve.

[Robse]

5 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Then we're back to where we started: the dust and grit will destroy the sliders. 

ok, that's sad because these sliders are really strong and the travel is smooth and precise.  It looks like this problem has no durable solution, rather one with the least amont of maintenance versus acceptebal but never perfect performance. Bad for such a nice wheel..  😐

[Rollin-on-1]

15 hours ago, chanman said:

I actually thought that behavior was more due to the stiff spring used more than the sliders themselves, but I could see how slider stiction would need more initial force.

There could be residual friction from the bolts used in the suspension linkages.  Marty found them to be a little too short.  He made a video about it.  Properly sized bolts freed up the movement quite a bit.

[Meso]

To me, the solution from this slider mess that KS did was obvious from day 1...  Simply invert the slider channels and the slider (Put the slider on the batteries pack and the chanel in the inside so the opening is facing outward) This way, there will be verry litle dirt ingress in the suspension. And also keep the rooler slider solution obviously as its superior. 

[Rollin-on-1]

1 hour ago, Meso said:

To me, the solution from this slider mess that KS did was obvious from day 1...  Simply invert the slider channels and the slider (Put the slider on the batteries pack and the chanel in the inside so the opening is facing outward) This way, there will be verry litle dirt ingress in the suspension. And also keep the rooler slider solution obviously as its superior. 

That's an interesting idea.  I wonder how difficult it would be to retro fit?  I imagine there would be more cost associated with machining parts to fill the battery case channels, etc., with that approach.  Cost may explain why it hasn't been done.  Seems like it would be an easy change at the factory to redesign and manufacture new battery cases.

Hopefully someone will try it!

Edited February 2, 2023 by Rollin-on-1
Punctuation is important

[Tawpie]

So, how does a Macpherson strut's damper manage to work for over 100k miles, with zero maintenance? High end MTB dampers have recommended service (rebuild) intervals of 75 hours, and this is after almost 40 years of development? Maybe we don't need MTB shock designers, maybe we need to talk to the car people.

KS went way out of the box with the S22 design and if they hadn't made the mistake of adding 'lubricant', we might never have seen WW's goobered up mess and thrown the baby out with the bath water.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Tawpie

[Uras]

14 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Macpherson strut's damper manage to work for over 100k miles, with zero maintenance

shock absorbers usually need to be replaced before then; for those that don't, that's why what they're driving feels like it's wallowing around corners, pogoing up and down. The shocks are pretty heavy steel units and non adjustable / non servicable. In reality the springs probably need replacing too, along with bearings and bushes etc. These accumulated things are why an older car often feels like shit. An air can on a mtb weighs nothing and lives in adverse conditions. The oil is designed to leak out while lubricating; although that does take a long time.  The typical 50hr service is just a clean and replace the oil. I imagine any stiction felt on such a light weight high performance setup would be felt - I know there is a lot of whinging about a particular model fork that had a stiction problem. That sort of stiction would be nothing on a car.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Uras

[techyiam]

47 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

how does a Macpherson strut's damper manage to work for over 100k miles, with zero maintenance?

One word.

NEGLECT! 

But it is still drivable, so people do.

[Tawpie]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

NEGLECT

and cost. After my car went out of warranty the stealer decided that I must have one of the struts replaced (I had no clue anything was wrong). I think that set me back like 500USD or something stupid like that. Now I never ask "how do the struts look"?

[EDCampstore]

On 2/1/2023 at 5:31 AM, Rawnei said:

I think that once wheels starts to break down you will notice the system becoming more stiff regardless how many wheels you have unfortunately.

I’m at almost 400 miles in on the MyEwheels 4-wheel CNC sliders and the suspension is still “butter smooth”, as I believe @Rawnei also mentioned. When I first installed them it was a “wow” moment - That’s how much difference they made for my S22. It soaks everything up now. If the suspension ever starts to tighten up on me, I’ll just replace all the wheels for around $16. Here’s the link for replacement POM wheels for the MyEwheels CNC sliders (6mm x 26mm x 7.5mm):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950286374.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.11.20b11802tkiw7

 

[Rawnei]

4 hours ago, EDCampstore said:

I’m at almost 400 miles in on the MyEwheels 4-wheel CNC sliders and the suspension is still “butter smooth”, as I believe @Rawnei also mentioned. When I first installed them it was a “wow” moment - That’s how much difference they made for my S22. It soaks everything up now. If the suspension ever starts to tighten up on me, I’ll just replace all the wheels for around $16. Here’s the link for replacement POM wheels for the MyEwheels CNC sliders (6mm x 26mm x 7.5mm):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950286374.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.11.20b11802tkiw7

 

You want 6x24x7mm for MyEwheel sliders 😅😅

They have them on the page you linked also here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32893605677.html

[EDCampstore]

That’s weird - The rep at MyEwheels gave me the wrong size spec then. I noticed the last 3 sales on Ali were the size 6x24x7mm, which should have been a red flag. I’ll reach out to the seller and hopefully he can switch the size for me before they ship.