Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Rollin-on-1]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:32 PM, anutheroneup said:

Will someone help me understand the real difference of the 4000W motor vs the 3300W motor with the S22 Pro version?  I noticed that those are the nominal wattages and that the peak voltage is 7500W for both models.  I have the S22 from eWheels that has the Samsung 40T battery pack, a pinned motor, and the new official Kingsong sliders on it, so it seems to me that everything on it is the same as the Pro version coming soon, minus the 4000W motor.  When it comes to specs, the top speed is the same, the 40 degree climbing ability is the same, peak voltage of 7500W is the same, so what real difference would I see with the 4000W motor?  

What Tawpie said, but the 4k watt HH motor also has magnets that are wider.  Whether that actually results in greater torque remains to be seen.

*after catching up on the thread, I realize this was already pointed out.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Rollin-on-1
Added note

[Rollin-on-1]

On 1/25/2023 at 11:11 AM, techyiam said:

It doesn't sound like eWheels are shipping out S22 Pro's.

It sounds more like they are shipping out S22's retrofitted with the roller slider kit, and the new motor.

In the Ecodrift-Life S22 Pro video, the roller sliders, as well as the battery case channels for the slider rollers are wider.

You can get an upgradedS22 with the 4k w motor and sliders now, or wait 3 more weeks and get the "pro" in their next shipment.  

[Rollin-on-1]

On 1/25/2023 at 8:55 PM, litewave said:

According to @EcoDrift's excellent unboxing and first impressions, their new Pro model has the following differences:

Ecodrift also identified a hard, crumbly "sealant" instead of a flexible sealant where the phase wires enter the motor as well as where the hall sensors and temp sensors are secured to the stator.  Rust was present inside the motor.

This could indicate future issues with the HH motors that will need to be addressed.  Which means that all the pinned 3300w ZX motors may be the better option.  We need to see more 4000w HH motor teardowns to know if the issue Ecodrift found is pervasive. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Rollin-on-1

[litewave]

3 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

You can get an upgradedS22 with the 4k w motor and sliders now, or wait 3 more weeks and get the "pro" in their next shipment.  

You apparently have some inside knowledge from eWheels that the rest of us aren't privy to.

Can you post the original info here? No one has heard of the timeline for "real" S22 Pros shipping from eWheels.

Edited January 27, 2023 by litewave

[MetricUSA]

I don't give two shits about the 'new' motor... I just want the fucking slides!!! WTF still waiting... 

[novazeus]

is king song sending out new slider kits to vendors so they can send them out to their customers?

i see jason is doing it and i don't believe jason procured after market slider kits for his customers, they must be from king song.

[novazeus]

i copied this from euco, kinda answers my question:

The KingSong KS-S22 ships with plastic suspension sliders. These sliders require frequent cleaning and maintenance to keep the suspension running in optimal condition. KingSong has manufactured a new version of these sliders that result in less friction and maintenance. 

EUCO will be purchasing these sliders and offering them to customers as an optional upgrade. Customers will be responsible for shipping cost, but the hardware will be provided under warranty for DIY self-install. Customer who prefer for to have these professionally installed may ship their units into our repair center at their own expense and we can install the sliders for a $100 installation fee. 

We expect to receive the sliders by late February or early March. Ahead of receiving them, we will contact eligible customers and provide the choice of self-install or professional install. 

Classic Version - installed on all production S22

Version 1.0 - can be retrofitted onto all production S22

Version 2.0 - installed on all production S22 Pro

[techyiam]

Kingsong doesn't own up to their mistakes. It is up to the dealers/distributors or the customers to absorb the cost. Kingsong supplies no parts, no labor, no shipping, no nothing, to rectify the situation. Again, too little, too late.

The true colors of Kingsong. Is Kingsong the new Gotway?

Now, come to think of it, it was the Russians, or Europeans--anyway, a third party--that came up with the ideas or actual parts for the proper fixes: roller sliders, and the pinning of the motor. 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Is Kingsong the new Gotway?

I'd say Gotway are actually rather superior in that regard ! Sure they might make similar errors, but at least they admit them, quickly iterate a solution, and then supply parts to distributors for people with older versions. If we can get over the fact that these things should have been sorted out before any of them went on sale in the first place, Gotway are pretty good at fixing their earlier mistakes, or at least giving us the parts to do it for them.

[Tawpie]

If we step back, all of the manufacturers are equally guilty...

[novazeus]

28 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

If we step back, all of the manufacturers are equally guilty...

typical no communication.

i asked another vendor if i bought one of their s22's would i get a free slider kit?
they said yes as soon as they received them. 

so that tells me that all previous s22 buyers sb getting a "free" (what a joke!) slider kit to fix their screwup. no apology, no nothing. 

but the vendors and or king song sb letting their buyers know this.

[Uras]

6 hours ago, techyiam said:

Kingsong doesn't own up to their mistakes. It is up to the dealers/distributors or the customers to absorb the cost. Kingsong supplies no parts, no labor, no shipping, no nothing, to rectify the situation. Again, too little, too late.

The true colors of Kingsong. Is Kingsong the new Gotway?

Now, come to think of it, it was the Russians, or Europeans--anyway, a third party--that came up with the ideas or actual parts for the proper fixes: roller sliders, and the pinning of the motor. 

Aren't all brands like this? When any of these companies release a new model there seem to be issues. Perhaps you're talking about a scale, with gotway at the top, kingsong 2nd, inmotion 3rd, leaper kim 4th etc - in order of worst to best.

[chanman]

Stock sliders were servicable for me, plenty of cushion going off of a big drop. Roller sliders I just installed and am enjoying more, more response and movement for smaller things, but imo the motor defect aside the wheel was delivered as promised.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, chanman said:

imo the motor defect aside the wheel was delivered as promised.

There you go, we have a happy S22 customer. 

It is hard to tell whether it is the wheel itself, or the customer who is the outlier. 

I guess EEVEES, Alien Rides and other dealers / distributors unnecessarily discounted their S22 then.

[Crab]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

There you go, we have a happy S22 customer. 

It is hard to tell whether it is the wheel itself, or the customer who is the outlier. 

I guess EEVEES, Alien Rides and other dealers / distributors unnecessarily discounted their S22 then.

I’m guessing unrepaired units with promise of a motor fix when available.

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

If we step back, all of the manufacturers are equally guilty...

 

1 hour ago, Uras said:

Aren't all brands like this? When any of these companies release a new model there seem to be issues. Perhaps you're talking about a scale, with gotway at the top, kingsong 2nd, inmotion 3rd, leaper kim 4th etc - in order of worst to best.

I wonder why Inmotion even bothered with replacing ALL affected drivers boards, (new board design, shipping and labor cost) on their own dime on the V12.

 

6 minutes ago, Crab said:

I’m guessing unrepaired units with promise of a motor fix when available.

I believe this was true only at the beginning of the sale. You need to ask @Tawpie whether she received a new motor. She was in this early part of the sale. But the remaining units had the motor already replaced.

[Tawpie]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

I wonder why Inmotion even bothered with replacing ALL affected drivers boards, (new board design, shipping and labor cost) on their own dime on the V12.

Because the evidence of a design error is printed on the part manufacturer's data sheets, it's unmistakable and would probably hold up in court.

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

You need to ask @Tawpie whether she received a new motor.

My replacement motor is still "on the way". But I did confirm that I'm getting one a couple weeks ago so somebody that's not me is picking up that tab.

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, chanman said:

Stock sliders were servicable for me, plenty of cushion going off of a big drop. Roller sliders I just installed and am enjoying more, more response and movement for smaller things, but imo the motor defect aside the wheel was delivered as promised.

u know, i think the stock sliders in my situation might be better than the retrofit with the rollers and ball bearings. the ranch is extremely sandy, like orange grove dirt, terrible for raising cows. i think the retrofit might get gummed up quicker, plus my hobbyist days are over, i have more expensive stuff that i have to keep running, and it would cost me several hundred dollars to drag a tractor or backhoe loader to a shop.

i just think if u buy something, u shouldn't have to repair it right out of the box. yeah i know i'm weird.

[techyiam]

4 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Because the evidence of a design error is printed on the part manufacturer's data sheets, it's unmistakable and would probably hold up in court.

You must be kidding. Has anyone won a case in court with any of these Chinese electric wheel manufacturers? Even with battery fires, only eWheels got their cage rattled by the feds.

9 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

My replacement motor is still "on the way". But I did confirm that I'm getting one a couple weeks ago so somebody that's not me is picking up that tab.

Given what you said here, I surmised "when available" means EEVEES will make a warranty claim against Kingsong, and Kingsong will then ship one over when they can. Three months sounds about right.

[novazeus]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

You must be kidding. Has anyone won a case in court with any of these Chinese electric wheel manufacturers? Even with battery fires, only eWheels got their cage rattled by the feds.

Given what you said here, I surmised "when available" means EEVEES will make a warranty claim against Kingsong, and Kingsong will then ship one over when they can. Three months sounds about right.

u know that is interesting. speaking of the germans, when i was lemon lawing my vw toareg in 2020, because it wasn't waterproof. water got in everywhere. engine and the interior. 

vw is naturally making excuses and at the same time, they are doing a massive recall in china. the attorneys in the states were just getting their ducks in a row for a class action lawsuit.

i lemoned the vw and got all my money back.

[Tawpie]

KS has earned its detractors, as has GW and LK and IM. I just think it's a little fanboi to propose that IM is any better or less opaque than any of the others about how they've handled their issues—the last official word was that the V12 drive board failures were due to parts that weren't stored properly, evidently that applied to all of the parts? Good on IM for replacing the boards because that was a mistake of epic proportions. Most riders were scared to ride their wheels for hmmmm, less than 9 months?

It's pretty clear that all of the wheel manufacturers have problems and will continue to have problems. Honestly I'm not at all surprised—these things seem simple but they're not. None of the 4 acknowledge the problems, they just go about releasing fixes—sometimes you get the fix for free but for the most part you're on your own. LK didn't ship me a V2 or V3 rim, or new side panels, or a new LCD, or 30A fuses, or a motherboard that doesn't blow up if the wheel gets caked with mud. Did LK ship new motors to all of their early Abrams buyers? eevee's replaced all the motors in their last batch. GW sent exactly nobody replacement 900 Wh battery packs, I have no idea what batch 1 Master owners are getting but they should be getting parallel batteries and a full suite of electronics and its still a glass cannon. Will IM replace a batch 1 V11 bearing 2 years on or did you have to ride it in the rain and ruin it in the first year? Did IM replace the batteries on the V11s that were bricked by the new safety firmware?

Sorry, I get irritated by fanblindness, particularly when it's used to point fingers at the other guys. They are all guilty.

I'm happy I'm getting my S22 fixed at no cost to me, but that assurance was part and parcel to making the purchase. If it had not been committed, I'd be on the waitlist for a spring 2023 wheel.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Even with battery fires, only eWheels got their cage rattled by the feds.

 

https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2022/CPSC-Warns-Consumers-to-Immediately-Stop-Using-King-Song-Electric-Unicycles-Due-to-Fire-Hazard-Fire-and-Injuries-Reported

Release Date: July 12, 2022

 

CPSC Warns Consumers to Immediately Stop Using King Song Electric Unicycles Due to Fire Hazard; Fire and Injuries Reported

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. – The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) is warning consumers about the risk of battery fires with King Song electric unicycles. CPSC urges consumers to stop using the unicycles with model number KS-16S immediately and dispose of them at a recycling facility or household hazardous waste collection point. 

CPSC is aware of one fire associated with the electric unicycles that resulted in smoke inhalation injuries to two consumers and caused substantial property damage to a commercial building. CPSC tested the product and determined the battery pack can overheat and presents a risk of fire.

The electric unicycles are made by King Song Intell Co. Ltd., of China, and are imported and sold by EWheels LLC, of Miami Beach, Florida, and other firms. 

King Song and EWheels have refused to recall the product.

[chanman]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

There you go, we have a happy S22 customer. 

It is hard to tell whether it is the wheel itself, or the customer who is the outlier. 

I guess EEVEES, Alien Rides and other dealers / distributors unnecessarily discounted their S22 then.

I think the discount is likely to clear out old inventory since the revised "pro" is now being delivered. I think most people in my situation, who received a wheel with a fixed motor and slider kit at no additional cost should be quite happy with the S22, and I don't think there's anything particularly of an "outlier" about it.

[techyiam]

23 minutes ago, chanman said:

slider kit at no additional cost

So, we know that you did not buy your S22 from Alien Rides nor Euco. Did you buy your your S22 from eWheels? 

What if you were one of many who did not get the sliders kit for free? Would you still be equally happy?

Bottom line is Kingsong didn't step up.

Edited January 29, 2023 by techyiam

[Tawpie]

12 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Alien Rides nor Euco

or eevees... pretty sure they're going to charge something for the kits.