Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Paul A]

Is the S22 suspension better than the Sherman S, now with the CNC rollers?

No more constant maintenance?

 

Lighter weight and very adequate battery of S22, seems comparatively better choice than SS.

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

Is the S22 suspension better than the Sherman S, now with the CNC rollers?

No more constant maintenance?

 

Lighter weight and very adequate battery of S22, seems comparatively better choice than SS.

Depends on use case and what you need, for range SS is a great choice because more batteries of course, for me personally I don't need that much range 2200Wh is enough for my rides and weight being a big factor for me I prefer having a lighter more agile wheel to do fun stuff on (not to mention carrying it up to my apartment, 40kg Shermax was already heavy).

I'll try to compare the two suspension systems when local riders get their SS but one place where S22 suspension shines is jumping and drops where it just soaks up the impact like nothing, not sure I wanna go all in and do that on someone else's wheel. 😅 Just riding on uneven surface is not great for comparison as just having any suspension there makes a big difference. Then it also comes down to tuning, you can change spring on the S22 to something much lighter and make it super cushy on uneven terrain but then it won't be as great for bigger things, I have 600lb spring on mine currently and it's feels good in all scenarios.

[onkeldanuel]

4 hours ago, Paul A said:

Is the S22 suspension better than the Sherman S, now with the CNC rollers?

No more constant maintenance?

 

Lighter weight and very adequate battery of S22, seems comparatively better choice than SS.

I think for Trails, offroad, dirt, and all allround you want the S22 if your satisfied with the range and so you can save nearly 10Kg also,

Suspension wise they should be pretty the same (very good to perfect)

Edited January 18, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[Crab]

Anyone able to verify battery type on the s22 pro? In chooch’s latest videos he talks about them having high discharge 40t packs now. Also, apparently there is no new controller as some claim according to Jason. 🍺

[Rawnei]

1 minute ago, Crab said:

Anyone able to verify battery type on the s22 pro? In chooch’s latest videos he talks about them having high discharge 40t packs now. Also, apparently there is no new controller as some claim according to Jason. 🍺

40T packs is an ewheels exclusive thing, I heard from several sources that controller is exactly the same, they planned on downgrading to underspecced mosfets first (similar to V12) but @supercurio put a stop to that.

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

they planned on downgrading to underspecced mosfets first (similar to V12) but @supercurio put a stop to that.

Wouldn't putting in the proper spec'd mosfets a low hanging fruit for the team of engineers at Kingsong. Why would they need @supercurio to tell them not to put in under spec'd mosfets?

[Rawnei]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Wouldn't putting in the proper spec'd mosfets a low hanging fruit for the team of engineers at Kingsong. Why would they need @supercurio to tell them not to put in under spec'd mosfets?

You seem to have a personal vendetta with me for some reason? What is your problem state it clearly.

[techyiam]

7 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

You seem to have a personal vendetta with me for some reason? What is your problem state it clearly.

Ad hominem fallacy. 

Not at all. Just to illustrate your logical fallacy of "Argument from Incredulity" in your first assertion using the low hanging fruit example. What you stated there failed to show why adding capacitors would not work, or is a bad thing, from a logical standpoint.

 

[Rawnei]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Ad hominem fallacy. 

Not at all. Just to illustrate your logical fallacy of "Argument from Incredulity" in your first assertion using the low hanging fruit example. What you stated there failed to show why adding capacitors would not work, or is a bad thing, from a logical standpoint.

 

You're really unbelievable. 🙄

[Crab]

44 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

40T packs is an ewheels exclusive thing, I heard from several sources that controller is exactly the same, they planned on downgrading to underspecced mosfets first (similar to V12) but @supercurio put a stop to that.

Apparently that’s my source of confusion here, I havnt been able to determine if they switched to the 40t or it’s an option now. Seems to me it would be the better choice for safety, but I know little about batteries and electronics.☹️

[onkeldanuel]

5 minutes ago, Crab said:

Apparently that’s my source of confusion here, I havnt been able to determine if they switched to the 40t or it’s an option now. Seems to me it would be the better choice for safety, but I know little about batteries and electronics.☹️

If they had have switched to 40T then it wouldnt be a 2200Wh Wheel anymore, so of course they did not and its an exclusive thing from his dealer (which makes not that much sense because the S22 has the really good LG50MT cells in it and have pretty no voltage sag, at least thats my opinion to that)

Edited January 18, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[Rawnei]

2 minutes ago, Crab said:

Apparently that’s my source of confusion here, I havnt been able to determine if they switched to the 40t or it’s an option now. Seems to me it would be the better choice for safety, but I know little about batteries and electronics.☹️

40T have good specs but I think that people would also react negatively towards lower capacity even if the end result might be marginal so I don't think it's something KS would do, not sure if ewheels just orders the BMS and build the packs themselves or have it sourced or something like that, shoot a mail to ewheels and check. 🙂

[Crab]

I did email but it was still unclear, I have a deposit on the pro and will probably just stop worrying about battery type as it sounds like they have good ones currently.

[novazeus]

12 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I mostly use EUCWorld to log rides, but I use the KS app to check the batteries. I'm on v2.25 mainboard, 2.15 BMS.

You do need to update your BMS firmware, you're quite a ways behind. 2.15 or 2.16 is where you need to be... they changed something so that it actually performs top balancing of the pack now whereas before it kinda didn't balance for the most part. Mine still doesn't "need" balancing, but I keep a close eye on the individual cell voltages and their differences.

thank you so much!

i'm about to file a grievance with the fcc and go to albitration with at&t over their unnacceptable wireless service.

as i recall, king song was always suspect with their firmware, seeing how i had to reflash my bms on my ks 18s under the guidance of tina wong and an engineer using their developer software. 

i've gone outside and have 4 bars, but my upload speed varies from zero to max 2.8mps. 

their app claims i'm up to date, but living offgrid means no wifi.

as long as it doesn't burst into flames, not perfectly charging to the max is fine with me. my ks 18s only went to 92% before the fix. 

i was exceptionally paranoid last night, reliving what i witnessed when my 3 old wheels caught on fire. and i'm sleeping on a mattress next to the two i have, and Bob next to them on his crate mat he likes. 

i'm extra careful with my wheels, especially now after seeing their explosive power. not that i expect them to burst into flames, but it is like sleeping next to two 55gal drums of gasoline, or worse. 

if one started making noises, Bob would be first to alert me and Star my cat, and we'd all run out, then i might go back in and try to grab the firestarter and toss it out of here(probably should dig a fire hole, i have the backhoe and never play with it).

i had frost here i think sunday or monday morning so i had to sell some cattle, and yesterday while loading my crazies a 500 pound heifer tried to kill me but only f'd up my thumb. so i won't be doing any wheel practice, other than my boards because it's pretty fragile now. 

it is fascinating camping out in ur own woods, especially in the morning, anytime really, it's like the animals all know u and lose any fear, ur just another animal now, not an evil human, although i am getting dirty looks from mamas because i shipped their children off yesterday. that part i really, really hate.

my main reason for a wheel is to exercise Bob safely. i can't run fast enough to get him up to speed. we use to do it just fine, i just chose the wrong wheel when the tire collapse under me. i'll begin with whichever wheel i believe is the safest for me and Bob. i'll have baby bear, mama bear and the papa bear v13(i really wish they would do a big relaunch, since they are including a seat and kickstand, and call it v14)and one of them will be the winner.

the three most important things for me about a wheel are

fire safety, fire safety, fire safety. 

everything else i can work around. the bonus with the v14, i hope, is the tidyness of their wiring. i know nothing about wheels, same as my home customers knew nothing about homes, their were no teardown videos of high end custom homes. i'd just tell the prospects when they looked at other homes, go look at a door casing and how it's painted. if it looks like it was painted with a masonry brush, that's what kind of work u can expect under it's skin. 

my painter was an artist and could lay down paint better than anyone i had ever seen. looked like a car finish, except no orange peel. sold lots of houses at the highest price in tampa bay. to this day, customers wishing to sell their homes will advertise it as , "a beautiful arthur rutenberg home" . u will see no other listings naming their homes contractor. 

so, everyone talking about the v14 being so expensive, the quote by ben frankiln comes to mind: 

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten” a quote frequently attributed to Benjamin Franklin, 

and here's my thumb.

[Uras]

21 hours ago, novazeus said:

i'll try again. 

is nobody using king song software? 

i asked what anybody else was running, and for a week now, crickets!

it's not hard to look and see.

 yeah, we hang around here with nothing else to do. 

I tried using ks software but it kept disconnecting. Then it told me there was an update. I downloaded the update thinking it might resolve the connection issue - the update won't install. The software now has this continuous update notice and it disconnects every 5 or 10 secs! I also do not like that you have to be online and with location enabled to use it - talk about intrusive! I use euc world with no issues; also off line and no location going. KS should pay euc world for their software - get them to modify it for their use - what a bunch of dumbarses they are. Just shit quality control and very poor business decisions; same for all wheel manufacturers by the looks of it.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Uras

[Uras]

8 hours ago, novazeus said:

so, everyone talking about the v14 being so expensive, the quote by ben frankiln comes to mind: 

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten” a quote frequently attributed to Benjamin Franklin, 

and here's my thumb.

 

inmotion seems to have the reputation for quality of build - that is one thing. They obviously still have their fare share of faults like the rest of them. The industry as a whole looks pretty lame. The obvious best answer seems to be don't buy till something has been out for a while and faults appear to be resolved. I bought bought a 16x for me and a 14d for my partner (she is 4'11" and 50kg); no issues with either after 3 months of regular use.

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Uras

[novazeus]

47 minutes ago, Uras said:

 yeah, we hang around here with nothing else to do. 

I tried using ks software but it kept disconnecting. Then it told me there was an update. I downloaded the update thinking it might resolve the connection issue - the update won't install. The software now has this continuous update notice and it disconnects every 5 or 10 secs! I also do not like that you have to be online and with location enabled to use it - talk about intrusive! I use euc world with no issues; also off line and no location going. KS should pay euc world for their software - get them to modify it for their use - what a bunch of dumbarses they are. Just shit quality control and very poor business decisions; same for all wheel manufacturers by the looks of it.

i was trying to find out what version firmware the s22 wheel owners were running.

i don't think the 14d or 16x run the same firmware. 

@Tawpiewas kind enough to look. and that solved my concern.

thanks for ur attention to this problem. might help u if u ever own a s22.

the s22 is very different from the other ks products as far as i know. 

[Uras]

Just now, novazeus said:

i was trying to find out what version firmware the s22 wheel owners were running.

i don't think the 14d or 16x run the same firmware. 

@Tawpiewas kind enough to look. and that solved my concern.

thanks for ur attention to this problem. might help u if u ever own a s22.

the s22 is very different from the other ks products as far as i know. 

oh; you did say software, which is generic. I imagine that's why you have a few here answering euc?

[novazeus]

btw, on my s22 only charging to 95%, with all the barrery/fire shit happening, i think kingsong, inmotion, begode, etc, should have some kind of hotline communication for suspicions of battery problems. 

i tried to contact tina wong thru fb, crickets, tried to contact freemotion, crickets, 

and king song isn't without guilt fire wise, none of them are. 

this is why, if u screw around with these beta products, u had better stay abreast of potential problems. 

could save ur life.

[Tawpie]

11 minutes ago, novazeus said:

btw, on my s22 only charging to 95%, with all the barrery/fire shit happening, i think kingsong, inmotion, begode, etc, should have some kind of hotline communication for suspicions of battery problems. 

i tried to contact tina wong thru fb, crickets, tried to contact freemotion, crickets, 

and king song isn't without guilt fire wise, none of them are. 

this is why, if u screw around with these beta products, u had better stay abreast of potential problems. 

could save ur life.

You bought from eWheels, correct? If you did, they're absolutely the very best at helping... email them about anything, they answer sometimes within the hour.

[novazeus]

there's a lot of monitoring built into the s22 sorfware. i have no experience with euc world. 

i'm gonna figure green means ok. even if it only charges to 95%. i'm perfectly fine with that.

i don't need range, but if i did, i'd just drive slower and make sure my tire was inflated to max pressure as stated on the sidewall. same with motorcycles, cars, trucks, etc. boats get better mpg going slower too.

there was a guy that hit all 48 states in a diesel rabbit averaging 80mpg. he was going for maximum range. not hotrodding around.

[novazeus]

1 minute ago, Tawpie said:

You bought from eWheels, correct? If you did, they're absolutely the very best at helping... email them about anything, they answer sometimes within the hour.

no, i bought from freemotion a pinned motor but $2599 instead of jason's price. might have bought from jason, but he didn't have any in stock, and he never made me aware, or on his website that he had different batteries put in his s22's. 

i don't think u ever answered, does ur s22 charge to 100%? if it does, that must be what ur bms firmware is telling it to do.

i seriously doubt jason could help me, even if i bought from him. i don't think charging to 95% is a problem, like the engineer told marty about the v14, they are doing it for a reason, to keep hades out of ur house.

when u witness three wheels on fire, u will be paranoid, i guarantee it. 

[Tawpie]

31 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i don't think u ever answered, does ur s22 charge to 100%? if it does, that must be what ur bms firmware is telling it to do.

Sorry! Yes, with BMS v2.15 it charges to just short of 126 V when set to 100%. The battery colors change to blue for batteries that were subjected to top balancing, but that only seems to happen on pack 1... there's a discrepancy in the voltage readings between the two packs that's likely firmware related so perhaps they fixed that in 2.16?

v2.08 of the BMS does not get high enough to balance the cells, that's the big change going to 2.15. You need to try softtuner, the app that Tina pointed you to before. Get the mainboard to 2.25, then bring the BMS to either 2.15 or 2.16.

BUT. Since I can see the cell voltages on S22, I am willing to charge to something below 126 because I can see how imbalanced the cells are. I am happy if the max-min voltage across all cells in both packs is under 50 mV. You are at 4.120 - 4.162 so you're close to where I'd want to run a balance operation (charge to 100%).

Jason won't help for a wheel he didn't sell, but when you do buy from him he's gold. He insisted that KS put Samsung 40T high drain batteries in his S22s because he felt the M50LT cells that everyone else gets are not sufficient for the application. He's 100% on board with the no-fires mantra, and is the only entity on the planet that is replacing the fire-prone GW 900 Wh packs (he recalled them, BG/GW did not acknowledge any issues with them and did not recall them... Jason reportedly spent a million of his money on the recall)

Edited January 19, 2023 by Tawpie

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Sorry! Yes, with BMS v2.15 it charges to just short of 126 V when set to 100%. The battery colors change to blue for batteries that were subjected to top balancing, but that only seems to happen on pack 1... there's a discrepancy in the voltage readings between the two packs that's likely firmware related so perhaps they fixed that in 2.16?

v2.08 of the BMS does not get high enough to balance the cells, that's the big change going to 2.15. You need to try softtuner, the app that Tina pointed you to before. Get the mainboard to 2.25, then bring the BMS to either 2.15 or 2.16.

BUT. Since I can see the cell voltages on S22, I am willing to charge to something below 126 because I can see how imbalanced the cells are. I am happy if the max-min voltage across all cells in both packs is under 50 mV. You are at 4.120 - 4.162 so you're close to where I'd want to run a balance operation (charge to 100%).

Jason won't help for a wheel he didn't sell, but when you do buy from him he's gold. He insisted that KS put Samsung 40T high drain batteries in his S22s because he felt the M50LT cells that everyone else gets are not sufficient for the application. He's 100% on board with the no-fires mantra, and is the only entity on the planet that is replacing the fire-prone GW 900 Wh packs (he recalled them, BG/GW did not acknowledge any issues with them and did not recall them... Jason reportedly spent a million of his money on the recall)

my vehicle firmware is 2.25, and tina wong did not point me to softtuner in 2018, she gave me some chinese software that unless u read chinese u could not use it. it was for reflashing the bms entirely.  

ok, finally got softtuner to work(wish the chinese would hire a good interpreter), 

but during the process finally got a 24 yo female phillipino mgt from at&t and after yelling at her for an hour, i was able to walk her thru how to fix my problem. unbelievable that u have to threaten reporting them to the fcc and going to albitration to get them to listen.

so, it kept saying all versions weren't compatible, so i went with 2.15 like u have, and plug in the charger again, and the voltage did go up a little. pack two says 100% soc but still less than 126 volts. 

good ol king song, "got too much time on ur hands, need a hobby, buy a king song wheel and u will be working on it constantly!

i get it, i was a hobbyist, i enjoyed building helicopters from scratch, pisses me off to rebuild china junk, been doing all my life.

 

maybe after a discharge/charge cycle or two, it will balance better, but with ur info, about different bms firmware, as i suspected, nothing wrong with the batteries, i can sleep better tn.

yeah, haha, softtuner did not exist in 2018. i think i posted a pic of me fixing my 18s with their developer program. maybe only dealers had it back then, not the public, and if u weren't chinese, u wouldn't understand it anyway.

[Rawnei]

5 hours ago, novazeus said:

no, i bought from freemotion a pinned motor but $2599 instead of jason's price. might have bought from jason, but he didn't have any in stock, and he never made me aware, or on his website that he had different batteries put in his s22's. 

i don't think u ever answered, does ur s22 charge to 100%? if it does, that must be what ur bms firmware is telling it to do.

i seriously doubt jason could help me, even if i bought from him. i don't think charging to 95% is a problem, like the engineer told marty about the v14, they are doing it for a reason, to keep hades out of ur house.

when u witness three wheels on fire, u will be paranoid, i guarantee it. 

Mine used to charge to 100% but now it charges less and less, last it was 125.2V, from what I understand the BMS and charger balancing settings might be poorly adjusted from factory, me and @supercurio will take an extra look at mine soon.

And I'm gonna be honest with you, you have many questions and if want people to see them and reply to them it's better to keep your posts short and simple.