Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Rollin-on-1]

I'd like to see a poll of how rider will actually use their S20.  Primarily off-road trails, ~75% off-road & ~ 25% street, 50/50 off-road & street, ~25% off-road & ~75 % street, ~100% street.  I think this type of poll would be very informative.

[Paul A]

Designing the S20 to make it easier to disassemble, extracting the wheel might be another approach.

Make future tyre/tube repairs/replacements less of a hassle.

[conecones]

An off-road wheel deserves an off-road tire! My vote goes to K262. Why would anyone spec 5” suspension and then slap a street tire on it…keep this wheel off-road focused! Plenty of street specific wheels to choose from…

[RockyTop]

3 minutes ago, conecones said:

An off-road wheel deserves an off-road tire! My vote goes to K262. Why would anyone spec 5” suspension and then slap a street tire on it…keep this wheel off-road focused! Plenty of street specific wheels to choose from…

Yeah!!!…….. I Definitely couldn’t say it better myself  

[.....]

 I would surmise that the bulk of buyers are road riders with a tiny bit of 'off-road'.  Whatever KS feels is the bulk of their riders, is what this wheel should cater too. Sell to the masses but alow it upgradeable for the fringes.

Edited September 2, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[RockyTop]

12 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 I would surmise that the bulk of buyers are road riders with a tiny bit of 'off-road'.  Whatever KS feels is the bulk of their riders, is what this wheel should cater too. Sell to the masses but alow it upgradeable for the fringes.

Why did you have to go and make scene? 
It reminds me of the three US car companies. Chevy gets you excited about a Corvette and sell you a Camaro. Ford says this is the Mustang you will like it. And Chrysler asks you what you want and gives it to you. The problem is no matter how much you may want a 6 wheel drive mini truck with a 440 Hemi that goes 0-60 in 3.4 seconds. You would never actually buy one. 
My take is that the knobby tire works just fine for me on the pavement. The street tire is almost useless on wet grass. 

[Paul A]

Maybe data from EUC world tour would be more objective and less subjective.

[Tasku]

I hope they go for hybrid tyre as stock.

Street and pure off-road tyres have problems. Street does not hold that well outside paved road and knobby might be wrong to start practicing with. Offroad knobby tyre has noice and some control issues, so there is that. 

A hybrid  tyre between these 2 is obvious choice for stock tyre. Best of both worlds. Just my 2 cents. 

[Paul A]

With specs of:

126V, 70kph top speed, large 20" wheel, approx 200km range,

seems more suited to road.

 

Riders planning on using as predominantly off road might find S18 more than adequate and cheaper.

[mike_bike_kite]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

Why would anyone spec 5” suspension and then slap a street tire on it

That 5" suspension might actually cope with some of the pot holes on the road over here. Personally I'd prefer a street tyre as I rarely, if ever, go off road.

[meepmeepmayer]

55 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 I would surmise that the bulk of buyers are road riders with a tiny bit of 'off-road'.  Whatever KS feels is the bulk of their riders, is what this wheel should cater too. Sell to the masses but alow it upgradeable for the fringes.

The S20 is the first wheel with serious clearance for all potential tires. No few mm like so many other wheels!

4 minutes ago, Paul A said:

approx 200km range

We all know that's not happening

[RockyTop]

2 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Riders planning on using as predominantly off road might find S18 more than adequate and cheaper.

Not enough power for me. 5 minutes of action and the batteries are sagging. Good point though. My concern is that once we get enough power, is it going to be too heavy? I keep an eye on the high performers like Mike Leahy. What will it take for him to switch to a suspension wheel?

[RockyTop]

1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said:

We all know that's not happening

You have obviously never used a paraglider motor with your EUC. 

[Unventor]

44 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Why did you have to go and make scene? 
It reminds me of the three US car companies. Chevy gets you excited about a Corvette and sell you a Camaro. Ford says this is the Mustang you will like it. And Chrysler asks you what you want and gives it to you. The problem is no matter how much you may want a 6 wheel drive mini truck with a 440 Hemi that goes 0-60 in 3.4 seconds. You would never actually buy one. 
My take is that the knobby tire works just fine for me on the pavement. The street tire is almost useless on wet grass. 

Have a look at Heidenau K66 80/90-14 tire, then you don't miss out on anything and it is all season too or optional slightly better at winter time too if you use Snowtex variant.I think it is German made. I have tested this on my V11. Surprisingly good. 

[RockyTop]

5 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Have a look at Heidenau K66 80/90-14 tire, then you don't miss out on anything and it is all season too or optional slightly better at winter time too if you use Snowtex variant.I think it is German made. I have tested this on my V11. Surprisingly good. 

Thanks, I will look into this

[supercurio]

39 minutes ago, Paul A said:

With specs of:

126V, 70kph top speed, large 20" wheel, approx 200km range,

seems more suited to road.

 

Riders planning on using as predominantly off road might find S18 more than adequate and cheaper.

Same idea here, I would have voted K262 or C186 knobby if the expected weight wasn't 35kg with many of critical components exposed.

I see it being fantastic for off-road as long as it doesn't get too technical.
You know, the kind with a series of obstacles which requires 3+ attempts to overcome, with the wheel falling heavily at least twice before succeeding. In these scenarios the knobby is most helpful.

Otherwise the C6004 already does really well on most off-road.
Context: I swapped the K262 for C6004 on Sherman despite riding 40%+ off-road.

Edited September 2, 2021 by supercurio

[RagingGrandpa]

26 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I keep an eye on the high performers like Mike Leahy. What will it take for him to switch to a suspension wheel?

For jumping dirt-

The benefits of suspension are:

• Landings get softer

The drawbacks of suspension are:

1. Poor crash durability (expensive stuff gets bent and broken)
2. More mass

I don't think we'll see Shibby Mike or Phantom Nick going big using suspension wheels any time soon
 

2 hours ago, conecones said:

keep this wheel off-road focused!

Grass, gravel, dirt roads? Sure!

Narrow trails, jumps, skate parks? Dream on...

[That Guy]

8 hours ago, Ádám Szitás said:

... I'm not surprised the K262 wins there [Facebook], it's the most common tire people talk about...

I am afraid voting for K262 often related to some kind of emotional general appreciation of Veteran Sherman rather than deeper analysis of which tyre is actually the best for most situations...

[Curt8892]

Is it possible to tune the suspension so that Leahy jumpers can benefit. I do not see many MTB without suspension anymore and I do not see F1 cars without suspension. Even some road bikes have suspension (via give in the frame)

 

 

 

[Paul A]

 

Click on above graphic to redirect to forum thread 'POLL -S20 Eagle Tire Options', Jack King Song's poll for choice of tyre.

Click to vote.  Click to see current results.

 

Currently, more members (85) are following this KingSong S20 confirmed post, than number of votes (48) in the poll.

[conecones]

3 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 I would surmise that the bulk of buyers are road riders with a tiny bit of 'off-road'.  Whatever KS feels is the bulk of their riders, is what this wheel should cater too. Sell to the masses but alow it upgradeable for the fringes.

I challenge KingSong to stick with the design philosophy and not dumb it down to appeal to the masses. Look at that monster sized shock, this bad boy is meant for the dirt!

High end sports cars design their suspension around track use and yet most owners drive it to work or golf course. If they appealed to the masses then they’d put on minivan style shocks, but they don’t. That’s called sticking to their design!

Same with Jeep Wrangler or Ford Bronco, you ever see one with street tires? 😂 Doesn’t matter most of these owners never hit the dirt with it.

Also the K262 is already a dual sport tire, not off-road specific. It does well on the road as many Sherman riders can attest to, certainly the tire doesn’t hold the rider back from doing what they want on the street whereas a street tire on off-road trail would severely limit capabilities once a tiny bit of mud is involved.

Edited September 2, 2021 by conecones

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, RockyTop said:

Thanks, I will look into this

If you look for more torque you could go for K66 80/80-14 at the expense of top speed. 

This shows them side by side  unmounted. The size difference is much bigger than I anticipated.

One thing that might be obvious at first glance is that most other tires have a solid centerline that acts as a slick tire. This have the benefit to make the tire easier to twist turn at slow speeds (walking or slower). The downside is it makes it slippery.

On knobby tire, making twist turn is much harder so you tend to force you to tilt turn instead. But in loose sand or mud or gras that makes sideways slide out a higher risk happening. 

The K66 don't have either of these drawbacks. It is hard for me to explain. I managed to make it kinda slide sideways by making a hard L at a roundabout crossing car lane turning into the bike lane on the epoxy painted markings on the road despite it was dry. It felt like abs kicking in braking hard in a car. It was fighting for grib. Any other tire I have had would mean a hard crash. 

I found I could push harder to cross the car lane brake hard with a semi twist and lean turn. I push hard on inside heal bending the outside leg slightly. Just don't over do this in wets or on markings on the street.

I have done similar on other wheels but in wet I have had sideways slide of up to 30ish cm which feels like a car aquaplaning. It is not a safe feeling at all. Since you rely on traction for balance to stay upright.

For people that do both street and off road rides I think this is one of the best tires we seen for EUCs. 

Just to add a 10cents despite the S20 do not hold high interest for me at least yet 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Unventor

[Dylan Weidman]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

With specs of:

126V, 70kph top speed, large 20" wheel, approx 200km range,

seems more suited to road.

 

Riders planning on using as predominantly off road might find S18 more than adequate and cheaper.

Think you got that backwards. S18 has no power, is crap off-road, good for posers. I’m excited kingsong is attempting a dirt bike level wheel. 

[r_713]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

 

Click on above graphic to redirect to forum thread 'POLL -S20 Eagle Tire Options', Jack King Song's poll for choice of tyre.

Click to vote.  Click to see current results.

 

Currently, more members (85) are following this KingSong S20 confirmed post, than number of votes (48) in the poll.

I'm voting for the C6004. I already have the K262 (which I like) and would like to try something different. The C6004 tread is quite similar to what I'm running on my R1200GSA. It's a 80/20 (road vs trail) tread and, for my use case, spot on. So let me try that on an EUC.

Edited September 3, 2021 by r_713
adding that I like the K262

[Curt8892]

19 hours ago, itsmark said:

I would like for it to come with a more off-road focused tire (I voted for the 262), but it looks like I'm in the minority on that one.

I am with you.