INMOTION V12 (pre-release)

[supercurio]

16 minutes ago, Nostris said:

I was just looking at Denis Hagov’s YouTube review of the V12. He is an Inmotion reseller in Europe, Lithuania  I think.  It was the best and most honest, informative review I have seen so far. He really explains the effects of the various configurations available, something that I think many reviewers have failed to do..They just rode it as they had been given it, and didn’t seem to think too much about the effects of pedal height or software settings.. the Vid is well worth a watch.IMO

 

I agree it's very informative, and it's great to have a more critical review of the production version.

However I think he misunderstood the pedal behaviour, which is highly configurable by assuming it's an "AI" as hyped by Inmotion's marketing some time ago, making the wrong decisions.

I very much doubt that there is any machine learning model running in realtime within the self-balancing loop.
It's not because it's impossible, but doing real-time inference based on riding and vehicle data on a micro-controller? Without really extensive testing, it's probably a bad idea compared to using well designed algorithms.
Also.. what could go wrong 

However, the fact that an experienced rider like him struggled to find settings he liked best shows that it will be fairly common.
Hopefully Inmotion will keep the advanced settings for people who want to tweak, but also provide 2 or 3 solid 1-button press presets.

[jimjam.nyc]

I think the unofficial labeling the V12 as a nikola killer is one of its biggest downfalls when it comes to reviews of this wheel. 

I honestly don't think the goal of this wheel is to win over gotway/begode customers in mass. 

I also just dont think inmotion will ever change its safety first mentality. Which is honestly totally fine.. There are Gotway/bgode wheels in every category for people who want to ride them.. So i dont see a need to put out a gotway clone with an inmotion sticker on the side of it.

If the negatives of the v12 right now are that it doesn't emulate the Nikola, I just dont see it as a negative. I am free to buy a Nikola or Nikola+ if that is what i am looking for, and trust me I did look at those wheels too.. 

I do however see some flaw in advertising this as a 70kmh wheel if it cant hit that speed.. I am a small guy, I am curious if at my weight and size if i will be able to get closer to that speed before tiltback kicks in. 

Also, if speed is your main selling point, i just think 16 inch wheels are not the right category in general. 

All of this being said, inmotion can and probably will be evolving the firmware on this wheel like it did the v11. So hopefully once its out there more they can unlock some more of its potential. 

Either way i am looking forward to getting this wheel. I am looking for a little more power but mainly just for the headroom. I have only pushed my wheel to its limits in very rare occasions. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kai Drange]

The weight of the V12 is what worries me the most. I'm not sure I have a good sense of what a 30kg wheel actually feels like. My V8F is half that weight. I often carry it up/down one floor or perhaps 100 meters and would like to do so if I get a new wheel. As a less than average strong male office-worker, is carrying the V12 like this very unpleasant? Hard to answer, probably.  Those of you with heavy wheels, do you carry them at all?

[The Brahan Seer]

My wheel is 25.6Kg and its manageable up stairs. For me personally  I would like to keep my limit to 30Kg or less if wanting to carry it but I think you get used to whatever weight over time though.

If you are really concerned go to a local gym if you have one nearby and try out lifting the 30Kg kettlebell or dumbell  a few times to give you an idea. 

[mrelwood]

57 minutes ago, Kai Drange said:

Those of you with heavy wheels, do you carry them at all?

Never. I don’t need to carry my wheel up any stairs, and other than that, it’s a vehicle with a tire on it. I don’t know why would I carry it anywhere. I didn’t carry my bicycle either, even when it weighed much less than my recent wheels.

[Rywokast]

2 hours ago, Kai Drange said:

The weight of the V12 is what worries me the most. I'm not sure I have a good sense of what a 30kg wheel actually feels like. My V8F is half that weight. I often carry it up/down one floor or perhaps 100 meters and would like to do so if I get a new wheel. As a less than average strong male office-worker, is carrying the V12 like this very unpleasant? Hard to answer, probably.  Those of you with heavy wheels, do you carry them at all?

fill up a couple water jugs and try it haha.... idk depends on the person, i carry 25 ish kg wheels up and down stairs almost every day.. my building has an elevator but i never use it, its no big deal at all... unless you have like 10 flights of stairs and you HAVE to take them, i wouldnt even consider the weight into the equation. idk about where youre from but i cant remember ever being in a multi story building without an elevator because it goes against our accessibility rules in the building code

Edited July 8, 2021 by Rywokast

[PLEASE_DELETE]

3 hours ago, Kai Drange said:

The weight of the V12 is what worries me the most. I'm not sure I have a good sense of what a 30kg wheel actually feels like. My V8F is half that weight. I often carry it up/down one floor or perhaps 100 meters and would like to do so if I get a new wheel. As a less than average strong male office-worker, is carrying the V12 like this very unpleasant? Hard to answer, probably.  Those of you with heavy wheels, do you carry them at all?

I'd imagine it would be quite unpleasant.  I have to pick up my Nik+ to put in a car, go up & down stairs sometimes such as at my parents house & it's terrible.  Not impossible by any means, but terrible.  I'm also an office worker (IT).  I really can't imagine dealing with something heavier than the Nik+.

[Rawnei]

My MSP with pads and honeycomb pedals is about 27.5kg, it feels ok to carry, my Sherman is 35kg but also feels ok with two handlebars, I carry them two sets of stairs every time no problem and I'm not exactly the hulk. More important is if the handle is comfortable to grip, my girlfriend has a bit of trouble carrying the MSP because of the for her uncomfortable handle (smaller hands).

[Zopper]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

my girlfriend has a bit of trouble carrying the MSP because of the for her uncomfortable handle

This. In my case, it’s the height of V11 that is the biggest issue, because I’m small - I almost don’t need to use the trolley handle to stroll it. So when I need to carry it up or down some stairs, I have to lift it a bit or use some convoluted pose just to avoid hitting the stairs or my legs with each step. Which makes it far worse than if I could just carry a dead weight in the hand.

 

[pkinpdx]

For those of us who are in the first 30 ewheels pre-orders of the V12.  The boat hauling them is scheduled to arrive in LA on the 20th.

[jimjam.nyc]

1 minute ago, pkinpdx said:

For those of us who are in the first 30 ewheels pre-orders of the V12.  The boat hauling them is scheduled to arrive in LA on the 20th.

I saw this as well.. hopefully they will be in our hands before august!

[Unventor]

49 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I saw this as well.. hopefully they will be in our hands before august!

Nahe. Not anymore you jinxed it. 

[jimjam.nyc]

1 minute ago, Unventor said:

Nahe. Not anymore you jinxed it. 

as long as the thing works when i get it, i can wait. :-)

[AtlasP]

On 7/7/2021 at 10:04 AM, jimjam.nyc said:

I think the unofficial labeling the V12 as a nikola killer is one of its biggest downfalls when it comes to reviews of this wheel. 

I honestly don't think the goal of this wheel is to win over gotway/begode customers in mass. 

This would be a fair argument if the Nikola was "just another Begode" wheel, but I think it loses the context of what the Nikola was.

The Nikola was in many ways Begode's attempt to make a wheel more appealing to the subset of the InMotion & King Song crowds seeking a bit more speed than the V10F or 18XL. And that's how it was received--the majority of die-hard Begode fans stuck with their MSP's and such for the larger tire and higher speeds, while dismissing the Nikola as a slower, "only 16in" wheel and absolutely hating the round aesthetic. Meanwhile I know a lot of InMotion & King Song owners for whom the Nik+ was their first Begode wheel (including myself)--many in this crowd were happy with their V10F's and 18XL's but wanted a bit more speed/headroom and maybe some increased cushion from the wider tire, and the Nik+ was it. And ultimately the Nik+ sold well to this demographic.

The V12 is best recognized as a response to the Nikola taken in this context--targeted at those riders still invested in InMotion or King Song as companies (versus the straight-up Begode fans) but who strayed due to wanting speeds in the 30s mph, and who represent the currently-largest market segment InMotion could easily win back.

Edited July 11, 2021 by AtlasP

[mike_bike_kite]

50 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

The Nikola was in many ways Begode's attempt to make a wheel more appealing to the subset of the InMotion & King Song crowds seeking a bit more speed than the V10F or 18XL. And that's how it was received--the majority of die-hard Begode fans stuck with their MSP's and such for the larger tire and higher speeds, while dismissing the Nikola as a slower, "only 16in" wheel and absolutely hating the round aesthetic. Meanwhile I know a lot of InMotion & King Song owners for whom the Nik+ was their first Begode wheel (including myself)--many in this crowd were happy with their V10F's and 18XL's but wanted a bit more speed/headroom and maybe some increased cushion from the wider tire, and the Nik+ was it. And ultimately the Nik+ sold well to this demographic.

I'm squarely in that demographic and for those very reasons  

[jimjam.nyc]

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

This would be a fair argument if the Nikola was "just another Begode" wheel, but I think it loses the context of what the Nikola was.

The Nikola was in many ways Begode's attempt to make a wheel more appealing to the subset of the InMotion & King Song crowds seeking a bit more speed than the V10F or 18XL. And that's how it was received--the majority of die-hard Begode fans stuck with their MSP's and such for the larger tire and higher speeds, while dismissing the Nikola as a slower, "only 16in" wheel and absolutely hating the round aesthetic. Meanwhile I know a lot of InMotion & King Song owners for whom the Nik+ was their first Begode wheel (including myself)--many in this crowd were happy with their V10F's and 18XL's but wanted a bit more speed/headroom and maybe some increased cushion from the wider tire, and the Nik+ was it. And ultimately the Nik+ sold well to this demographic.

The V12 is best recognized first and foremost as a response to the Nikola taken in this context--targeted at those riders still invested in InMotion or King Song as companies (versus the straight-up Begode fans) but who strayed due to wanting speeds in the 30s mph, and who represent the currently-largest market segment InMotion could easily win back.

I get what you are saying! Funny enough i was going to pick up a Nik+ then V12 got announced.. So I held off. I did a lot of back and forth in my head. I usually go with the tride and true proven wheel, but this time i jumped on a 1st run.. Mainly due to the waterproofing and some of the amenities the V12 has. I am well aware that this may turn out to be a mistake lol. 

[mike_bike_kite]

1 minute ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I get what you are saying! Funny enough i was going to pick up a Nik+ then V12 got announced.. So I held off. I did a lot of back and forth in my head. I usually go with the tride and true proven wheel, but this time i jumped on a 1st run.. Mainly due to the waterproofing and some of the amenities the V12 has. I am well aware that this may turn out to be a mistake lol. 

The waterproofing on the Nikola is excellent, there doesn't appear to be anywhere water can get in, though the amenities are probably better on the V12. 

[eucVibes]

 

[Daytonalott]

On 7/8/2021 at 1:46 PM, pkinpdx said:

For those of us who are in the first 30 ewheels pre-orders of the V12.  The boat hauling them is scheduled to arrive in LA on the 20th.

Where did you hear this date? I ordered June 13th so I'm not sure if I was a first 30 or not?

[pkinpdx]

2 hours ago, Daytonalott said:

Where did you hear this date? I ordered June 13th so I'm not sure if I was a first 30 or not?

You would have to ask them.  One of the crew here in Portland ordered within 1 hour of the pre-order link going live and was number 20.

[Kurtosis]

I ordered in early April and haven't heard anything since May 19.

[jimjam.nyc]

8 hours ago, Kurtosis said:

I ordered in early April and haven't heard anything since May 19.

you can probably email them to see where you are in the pre-order queue. 

At any rate if the shipment is coming into port on or around the 20th i am sure we will hear some news soon. 

 

 

[omuretsu]

Looks like the bulk order for these is delayed a bit. Just got the following in an email from eWheels:

Quote

Good morning, 

 

We wanted to reach out & give you V12 depositors a quick update: back in early May, when placing the order with Inmotion, they had advised that there was a targeted production of 2,000 Wheels (globally), scheduled this month. However, due to recent component & battery cell shortages, we've just been informed that this schedule has slipped to August, with an expected arrival/shipping out date in September. 

 

With this release, we've placed a substantial initial order & are confident there will be enough to cover all depositors who have placed an order from early May to present in this round. Furthermore, the wholesale price has increased by a couple hundred dollars since the announcement, but you're locked in at the original quoted $2,199 price. 

 

Will try to keep you informed on developments as progress is made. There is no need to respond to this email, we're all in the same boat.

 

Thank you & have a great rest of your day.

 

The eWheels Team 

Based on previous info, it sounds like this would apply to everyone not in the first 30 orders (based on a previous post, it sounds like those are already on a ship scheduled to arrive on the 20th).

Also looks like the price for the wheel is going up a bit (for those who did not preorder).

[AtlasP]

2 hours ago, omuretsu said:

Looks like the bulk order for these is delayed a bit. Just got the following in an email from eWheels:

...

I feel like we're going to keep getting variations of this message over and over again over the next couple months, each time referring to different makes and models, and every time people are going to get re-riled up about it, when in fact this has been expected since the original reports about the battery shortage. This is just confirmation that "yep, it's all playing out like expected, and this is life now until the battery shortage ends (hopefully sometime over the next few months)".

Edited July 15, 2021 by AtlasP

[AtlasP]

Looks like ewheels hasn't updated the price on the website quite yet. Anyone who was still considering pre-ordering might want to get it in now quick before the price goes up.

Edited July 15, 2021 by AtlasP