Fire History

[Asphalt]

1 hour ago, FlyboyEUC said:

It was a KS 14s and it happened early 2021. It was submerged for a couple minutes in fresh water. The wheel wouldn't turn off but the motor never engaged. I disassembled it when I got home and removed the batteries. I dried everything best I could but brown water gushed out of the battery packs when I squeezed them. Shortly thereafter I heard the sizzle and saw smoke so I submerged it in a bucket of water and took it out to the parking lot so it could explode in a safe area.

Thank-you for the additional information.

The incident has been added to the list with the caveat of having been submerged in water.

I think you dealt with the batteries in the best way possible at the time. I'd have tried to do the same.

I wish there was a better way to handle submerged batteries, other than explosively venting chemicals into the environment.

[Paul A]

Posted on another thread by member Goatman.

 

An Electric Bus Caught Fire After Battery Explosion in Paris

94,040 views

Apr 30, 2022

 

 

A video recording shows the start of the fire which completely consumed an electric RATP bus on Friday 29 April.

The incident caused no injuries.

The bus burst into flames within seconds.

 

This is what can be seen on the video that captured the very beginning of the fire of an electric vehicle of the RATP in Paris , this Friday, April 29.

In the images, we can see a small explosion occur on the roof of the bus, where the batteries are located, followed by huge flames that spread to the entire body, at breakneck speed.

 

This line 71 bus caught fire in the 13th arrondissement of Paris in the morning, mobilizing around thirty workers, according to the firefighters contacted by Le Parisien.

 

It is a 100% electric vehicle, from the Bolloré brand Bluebus 5SE series, like the bus that burned down at the beginning of April .

This afternoon, the RATP decided to temporarily withdraw from circulation the 149 Bolloré electric bluebuses that circulate on its network.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Paul A

[AtlasP]

12 hours ago, Paul A said:

Posted on another thread by member Goatman.

An Electric Bus Caught Fire After Battery Explosion in Paris

94,040 views

Apr 30, 2022

 

 

A video recording shows the start of the fire which completely consumed an electric RATP bus on Friday 29 April.

The incident caused no injuries.

The bus burst into flames within seconds.

 

This is what can be seen on the video that captured the very beginning of the fire of an electric vehicle of the RATP in Paris , this Friday, April 29.

In the images, we can see a small explosion occur on the roof of the bus, where the batteries are located, followed by huge flames that spread to the entire body, at breakneck speed.

 

This line 71 bus caught fire in the 13th arrondissement of Paris in the morning, mobilizing around thirty workers, according to the firefighters contacted by Le Parisien.

 

It is a 100% electric vehicle, from the Bolloré brand Bluebus 5SE series, like the bus that burned down at the beginning of April .

This afternoon, the RATP decided to temporarily withdraw from circulation the 149 Bolloré electric bluebuses that circulate on its network.

 

 

Interesting that when it's a traditional automobile/bus/etc, the response isn't to ban all automobiles/busses/etc, but when it's one PLEV then immediately there are calls to ban all scooters/ebikes/esk8/EUC/etc.

[Wolverine]

According to a Facebook post, Inmotion V11 caught fire.

 

This is the text from a post:

A friend of mine his Gotway monster Mobo died from the 4K Off road trail riding,

so he bought a inmotion V11 brand spanking new from the shop this for commuting to and from work.

It arrived today at his place and the only ride he had was to hospital because the thing went up in flames during its first charge!

He sustained burns to both hands and he has to stay in hospital for now.  Every brand clearly has Q issues! 🔥💥💥🔥 Batch  09/21

 

Source:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/5111795705585018/

 

[redsnapper]

On 4/18/2022 at 9:47 PM, VikB said:

If my wheel went in the water and was submerged I'd dispose of the battery packs safely and then keep the damaged wheel for spare parts as assuming I liked it enough to get another one of the same brand/model. Lots of stuff would be damaged by the water, but at the same time lots of parts would be just fine like the plastics, tire, rubber parts and non-corroding metal parts.

Ebike hubs get water in them all the time - the mainboard and the batts would be toast - everything else can be cleaned/restored with 99% isoprop (including motor windings, hall sensors, microboards,terminal sockets,etc). Buy new batts and board (so everything to do with charging, storage & high current power distribution is new) and you have same risk of issue as before submersion... @RagingGrandpaIs this right?

[Wolverine]

I didn't expect it, well done Inmotion!

[Mike Sacristan]

Here is a fire that almost was on my Begode EXN.
Early batch with old BMS and LGM50T packs.

Leaned my EXN against a lamp post. It tipped. After that it would not charge to full.
At least two cell group reached a very high value.. one at 4.47V and the other at 4.48V.
After a couple of days the plastic on the BMS started to melt.
 

 

[Mango]

Kingsong 18XL caught fire in Sao Paulo, Brazil May 22, 2022

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd5ssWyLZS7/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[Paul A]

KS18XL fire in Sao Paulo, Brazil.

A lot of white smoke at the start.

Then the white smoke ceased when the flames appeared.

No exploding, ejecting cells, no flame thrower effect.

Why the sharp change between smoke and no smoke?

Is it steam?

White colored smoke....

Edited May 23, 2022 by Paul A

[Asphalt]

S18 fire in Germany

https://www-krone-at.translate.goog/2714985?fbclid=IwAR1dw8oe3EA-W4q1A2bgBvhCIJ7B_gU6c65c0l_RdL3sYDvtMEt-PF4GgNU&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[Robse]

i'm getting depressed reading about these fires ☹️ There goes another one, and the owner can watch his beloved wheel go up into flames, and the main reason for this? The use of these damn lithium batteries! 😡

[.....]

54 minutes ago, Robse said:

i'm getting depressed reading about these fires ☹️ There goes another one, and the owner can watch his beloved wheel go up into flames, and the main reason for this? The use of these damn lithium batteries! 😡

I think the MAIN reason is shoddy quality, lack of financial responsibility and just plain old greed. Lithium is finicky, but it seems like there are ways to make them safer. Of course, these methods cost money and have to be implemented correctly. I for one, am just about fed up with patronizing an industry that is doing everything it can to take advantage of cutomers while not bothering to ensure quality or safety. Is it no surprise that there's no euc companies around that are selling from a nation with actual liability laws and consumer protection requirements? New wheels being produced every month, but nobody has yet to bother making one recently with any semblance of quality control or attention to detail. Its like watching a bunch of 5 year old glue together a fleet of space shuttles, and then buyers wonder why they keep failing. Prices keep going up and quality keeps going down. But hell, its the idea we are buying, not the reality of execution, right? Why buy something that is proven to work, when you can impress the Jones' and spend good money on false promises and high failure rates. Perhaps Im a little bitter. Why, because its my fault as well. I have also been taken advantage of with a crap wheel in the past and I've also helped support an unproven wheel. A lot of my bitterness is from looking in the mirror.

Edited May 23, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[AtlasP]

Aside from the longer-term fundamental issues that prompted ewheels to stop selling all new Begode wheels for an entire year until they secured the LiTech arrangement, I have to wonder if the broader range of fires more recently across a wide range of wheels (including historically reliable models that traditionally didn't see such issues) are perhaps partially the result of the pandemic's impact on the global supply chain, and how it seems like everyone is cutting corners these days due to either supply shortages of better materials and/or rushing production trying to catch up.

I.e. to what degree (if at all) is your average lithium-ion cell today simply inferior or statistically likely to be inferior than a cell manufactured prior to the pandemic as a result of issues affecting the global supply chain? And/or is there some attribute of inferiority that would make these cells still 'fine' for traditional use (like a flashlight) but less resilient to the kinds of stresses produced by using large sets of such cells in series as in EUC packs?

(This is just a hypothesis carried over from observations in other industries. I have no direct knowledge about the quality of individual lithium-ion cells.)

Edited May 24, 2022 by AtlasP

[JamesG]

Hi All! Is there a correlation to battery size and the pronation to fires? Is there a historical chart of sorts available somewhere, listing all EUC fires between 18650 battery packs & the 21700s? It seems that the vast majority of fires..are of the 21700s, regardless of brand. I am so concerned of all these sad news, since I’m about to order my 1st EUC.

Edited May 25, 2022 by JamesG

[goatman]

14 minutes ago, JamesG said:

Is there a correlation to battery size and the pronation to fires? Is there a chart somewhere available, between EUC fires with 18650 battery packs & the 21700s? It seems that the vast majority of fires..are of the 21700s, regardless of brand. I am so concerned of all these fires, since I’m about to order my 1st EUC.

just dont get a wheel that has LG M50 batteries in it.

[Heyzeus]

53 minutes ago, JamesG said:

Hi All! Is there a correlation to battery size and the pronation to fires? Is there a historical chart of sorts available somewhere, listing all EUC fires between 18650 battery packs & the 21700s? It seems that the vast majority of fires..are of the 21700s, regardless of brand. I am so concerned of all these sad news, since I’m about to order my 1st EUC.

Well, as someone who has no idea what they're talking about, I would assume it's not inherently about battery size but a combination of factors.

I imagine that statistically, The more batteries you have in a pack the more likely you are to have a bad battery slip through especially if they aren't doing due diligence in thoroughly testing every battery and given manufacturers history here doing due diligence isn't always their strong point (hot glue).

I imagine that, the more batteries you have in a pack soldered together the more likely you are to have a mistake or bad connection that could result in poor charging or discharging that eventually results in a fire.

I imagine that, as you increase the number of batteries in the pack you increase the weight of the pack which increases the amount of forces/flexing exerted on those connections during riding and or crashes.

On top of all that, the largest battery packs are often in the largest/heaviest, fastest electric unicycles, ones that are more likely to be taken off road, ridden hard, and crash at a higher speed and when they do crash even if at a lower speed due to the weight of the wheel and the pack you have even more likelihood of flexing and damage to the pack during a crash

 

So if you combine all that along with poor quality control, potentially, depending on manufacturer or an insufficient BMS you get a potentially higher likelihood of fire.  

However there are instances of smaller wheels like the mten having fires so it's not just down to battery size. Poor Waterproofing (inmotion v10) can cause fires too.

That said a fire in a large 3200 watt hour battery has a lot more potential to be worse and get out of control than say a fire in a 500 watt hour battery that might burn out faster or be smaller and easier to contain

 

I'm sure there are factors I am omitting but that is my rather uneducated assumption on it

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Heyzeus

[Robse]

Regarding number of cells:  Tesla model S uses 7104  18650 cells,   newer models uses 2170 (M50T)

https://evannex.com/blogs/news/understanding-teslas-lithium-ion-batteries

(old article;  2017, but pretty relevant )

Anybody remember this; the neverending story of hoverboards on fire:

https://eridehero.com/hoverboard-recalls/

I think i buy my a second KS 16X 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Robse

[alcatraz]

13 minutes ago, Robse said:

newer models uses 2170 (M50T)

Are you sure?

They have used Sanyo/Panasonic 21700 cells, but LG I'm unaware of.

[Robse]

15 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

Are you sure?

They have used Sanyo/Panasonic 21700 cells, but LG I'm unaware of.

No - not more than the almighty internet can tell me ... and the internet is not always right

[GoGeorgeGo]

On 5/24/2022 at 10:39 PM, JamesG said:

Hi All! Is there a correlation to battery size and the pronation to fires? Is there a historical chart of sorts available somewhere, listing all EUC fires between 18650 battery packs & the 21700s? It seems that the vast majority of fires..are of the 21700s, regardless of brand. I am so concerned of all these sad news, since I’m about to order my 1st EUC.

I think one of the main correlations is with pack size. In terms of how many parallel cells you have. Most fires have been wheels with 4 or less parallel groups or wheels with shoddy wiring issues. 

Having more parallel cells reduces the stress on the packs, since each group is responsible for less output and less input. Just my theory though im not an electrical engineer

[TantasStarke]

6 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

I think one of the main correlations is with pack size. In terms of how many parallel cells you have. Most fires have been wheels with 4 or less parallel groups or wheels with shoddy wiring issues. 

Having more parallel cells reduces the stress on the packs, since each group is responsible for less output and less input. Just my theory though im not an electrical engineer

Considering no 2700 or 3600wh gotway wheels have gone up in flames (besides a custom battery pack), while using the same 900wh packs as the exploding 1800wh wheels, it's a fair assumption to make.

 

On 5/24/2022 at 10:39 PM, JamesG said:

Hi All! Is there a correlation to battery size and the pronation to fires? Is there a historical chart of sorts available somewhere, listing all EUC fires between 18650 battery packs & the 21700s? It seems that the vast majority of fires..are of the 21700s, regardless of brand. I am so concerned of all these sad news, since I’m about to order my 1st EUC.

As others said having larger batteries seems to decrease the chance of a fire, but if it does ignite it is much more dangerous the larger it is. Remember the Samsung phones exploding a few years ago? 2700wh wheels like the EXN have essentially 144 phone batteries in there, that's a big boom if it were to go up in flames

[techyiam]

15 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

Considering no 2700 or 3600wh gotway wheels have gone up in flames (besides a custom battery pack), while using the same 900wh packs as the exploding 1800wh wheels, it's a fair assumption to make.

What doesn't add up is that @Mike Sacristan EX.N battery pack, which was imminently about to reach thermal runaway was attributed to a malfunctioning BMS. And this malfunction could have been caused by physical trauma. Doesn't the EX.N has three of those 900Wh packs?

[TantasStarke]

23 minutes ago, techyiam said:

What doesn't add up is that @Mike Sacristan EX.N battery pack, which was imminently about to reach thermal runaway was attributed to a malfunctioning BMS. And this malfunction could have been caused by physical trauma. Doesn't the EX.N has three of those 900Wh packs?

Yes the EXN has 3x gotway 900wh packs inside. Wheels like the RS have 2x, and the MPro has 4x

[supercurio]

39 minutes ago, techyiam said:

What doesn't add up is that @Mike Sacristan EX.N battery pack, which was imminently about to reach thermal runaway was attributed to a malfunctioning BMS. And this malfunction could have been caused by physical trauma. Doesn't the EX.N has three of those 900Wh packs?

Yes, without Mike's vigilance since the beginning, this wheel might have burned his home, given that the BMS most critical safety feature (preventing over-charging cells) failed.

Since we get 0 data from these packs, we can't know if it's that's the failure at the center of most fires or not. A BMS specialist might be able to determine if this safety system is inoperant because of a physical trauma or not tho. I wish someone would look at it, including Begode engineers.
Was the over-voltage trigger (> 4.25V) reset after a time-out? Was it because the voltage delta between cell groups was too high?

@Mike Sacristan, do you think you could get the BMS sent to either Begode or one of the expert in the forums for forensic analysis which might benefit everybody?

Edited May 27, 2022 by supercurio

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Since we get 0 data from these packs, we can't know if it's that's the failure at the center of most fires or not. A BMS specialist might be able to determine if this safety system is inoperant because of a physical trauma or not tho. I wish someone would look at it, including Begode engineers.

But who would be interested enough to pay for this to happen?

 

13 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Was the over-voltage trigger (> 4.25V) reset after a time-out? Was it because the voltage delta between cell groups was too high?

Neither of these scenarios should've resulted in over-voltage of any cell. So the BMS was at fault. The only question is whether the BMS was defective. However, Mike said that the symptom of not being able to fully charged only occurred after the EX.N fell from leaning against something. Also, he said that his wheel was subjected to a lot of physical abuse prior.

 

But if somebody is willing to put out the money and effort to determine whether the said BMS was defective, we can then know whether the BMS's used in those 900Wh battery packs are one of the possible causes for the fires. Right now, the fingers seem to be pointing at cell abuse, since most the euc fires have the 4P or less battery packs configurations.