Fire History

[Simonm]

Good on them for trying to be as proactive as possible.  

[mike_bike_kite]

If we asked manufacturers to have a blackbox functionality then could it be done entirely in software? I mostly ride my Nik+ but I've no idea how I'd check to see if the batteries are equal voltage. If the data was downloaded to your phone then that stops the information going up in flames along with the wheel. It would be nice if the wheel reported when the batteries have been charged and to what voltage and how long the balancing took place for if at all. I assume the wheel could also monitor large impacts plus what speed the wheel was going at when the rider crashed. Can the wheel detect if the batteries are about to explode, particularly if the wheel is turned off,  and trigger an alarm - it's the battery fires while I'm sleeping that bother me the most.

[360rumors]

11 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

If we asked manufacturers to have a blackbox functionality then could it be done entirely in software? I mostly ride my Nik+ but I've no idea how I'd check to see if the batteries are equal voltage.

I agree that this would make EUCs much safer to do this.  I fly FPV drones and I would not imagine parallel charging my batteries without analyzing the voltage of every one of them first.  And if any cell is bad, I would know by checking the voltage.  It's weird to me that EUCs are a bit lackadaisical about balancing and charging the batteries.

FWIW, one thing i like about the v11 and the new firmware is how it monitors the voltage of its two main batteries and if there is too much difference in voltage between them, it will warn the user.

Edited June 18, 2022 by 360rumors

[Paul A]

https://www.electronicsb2b.com/eb-specials/manufacturing-equipment/battery-management-systems-enhance-reliability-and-safety-in-electric-vehicles/

 

Advantages of battery management systems in EVs

• A BMS enhances the life span of the battery cells in EVs.
• This is an effective system to measure and control the cell’s voltage.
• It provides stability and reliability.
• It ensures the safety of the battery pack, especially large format lithium-ion batteries.
• It optimises the performance of the electric car battery.
• It monitors the battery cells constantly to avoid the occurrence of failure or explosion.
• A BMS helps to track any problems such as excessive heat, smoke, fire, etc, that can ruin the cells.
• It controls the temperature, maintaining it at the ideal or optimum 45 degrees Celsius for EV batteries.
• It gives an indication of how long the battery’s charge will last before it needs recharging.
• It forecasts the battery pack’s capabilities in the near future.

 

That is why BMSs are critical in EVs for the safe operation of the high-voltage battery.

 

They effectively monitor the state of the batteries, preventing overcharging and discharging that may reduce the battery’s life span, capacity and even cause explosions.

 

A BMS checks the power voltage, and when the required voltage is reached, it stops the charging process.

 

In case any irregular pattern in the power flow is traced, BMSs shut down and send out an alarm.

 

The best part about BMSs is that they can relay the information about the battery’s condition to the energy and power management systems.

 

In addition, they regulate the temperatures of the battery cells, and also the battery’s health, making it safe and reliable under all conditions.

[goatman]

the best line from above:

they effectively monitor the state of the battery and even cause explosions

[TantasStarke]

On 6/17/2022 at 6:56 AM, Wolverine said:

As we know, there have been some V11 unicycles on fire recently. The manufacturer has completed the investigation and made a decent report of it. As it turns out, people have ignored the warnings given by the device, and unfortunately at some point the device has caught fire. In view of the above, it is perfectly understandable why the manufacturer forced us to update the firmware to 1.4.15.

The report is available here, please take a look at it:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b4sLAKincR0dr6TnWbMKPjE152Cqn5Ti/view?usp=sharing

 

Weren't 2 of the 3 recent V11 fires from brand new wheels? On the 5/20/22 fire the original poster says "thing went up in flames during its first charge" and the 1/27/22 fire the amazon review said it went up during first charge as well. Saying people ignored warnings when it was the very first charge is disingenuous, unless there are more V11 fires I'm unaware of.
The reddit post about the 1/27/22 fire was deleted for some reason, but the amazon review is still up https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2CZ2Q99VE17B0?ref=pf_vv_at_pdctrvw_srp

Edited June 19, 2022 by TantasStarke
posted correct amazon review link

[360rumors]

2 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

Weren't 2 of the 3 recent V11 fires from brand new wheels? On the 5/20/22 fire the original poster says "thing went up in flames during its first charge" and the 1/27/22 fire the amazon review said it went up during first charge as well. Saying people ignored warnings when it was the very first charge is disingenuous, unless there are more V11 fires I'm unaware of.
The reddit post about the 1/27/22 fire was deleted for some reason, but the amazon review is still up https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B09FL6524R/ref=acr_dp_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar

The fact that it was the first charge does not preclude the possibility that they were ridden and severely crashed, which might have damaged one or more cells, leading to the condition described in Inmotion's analysis.

[TantasStarke]

4 hours ago, 360rumors said:

The fact that it was the first charge does not preclude the possibility that they were ridden and severely crashed, which might have damaged one or more cells, leading to the condition described in Inmotion's analysis.

They said in the document that the voltage differences "happened before 4 weeks of the incidents", and the 5/20/22 fire happened on the same day he got the wheel. The amazon review doesn't say how long he had the wheel though. I don't buy this "We investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong" stuff. Unless they studied wheel fires I don't know about I'm not buying this. Inmotion would have a reason to lie.

Also I accidentally linked the wrong amazon review, this is the one about the fire https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2CZ2Q99VE17B0?ref=pf_vv_at_pdctrvw_srp

[Bizra6ot]

@Asphalt  It was shared on pv discord with no other information than the date and country

[360rumors]

6 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

They said in the document that the voltage differences "happened before 4 weeks of the incidents", and the 5/20/22 fire happened on the same day he got the wheel. The amazon review doesn't say how long he had the wheel though. I don't buy this "We investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong" stuff.

Again, even if it is new it may have had a defect that began weeks before it was sold. If that is the case, then the new firmware is designed to avoid that. I’m curious to see if there have been any fires since the new firmware. 

[Wolverine]

15 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

Weren't 2 of the 3 recent V11 fires from brand new wheels? On the 5/20/22 fire the original poster says "thing went up in flames during its first charge" and the 1/27/22 fire the amazon review said it went up during first charge as well. Saying people ignored warnings when it was the very first charge is disingenuous, unless there are more V11 fires I'm unaware of.
The reddit post about the 1/27/22 fire was deleted for some reason, but the amazon review is still up

8 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

Inmotion would have a reason to lie.

The information you read on the internet should always be checked, and same goes with the sources. Have you checked the sources? Are these sources reliable? Even when reading a newspaper, you should always be critical of the source. Not everything may be true.

I recently saw two negative Facebook posts about V11 and decided to investigate if there is any basis for it. I contacted the dealers listed in the posts and they said they didn't know anything about it. I wrote to both authors and for some reason they decided to delete the Facebook posts. Some simply enjoy spreading false information.

What comes to burned V11´s, Inmotion officially announced that it wants to get the burned V11 models back and paid the shipping costs itself. Inmotion also officially announced that in one case the owner refused to send a unicycle for investigation. Everyone can make their own conclusions from such behavior.

[mike_bike_kite]

1 hour ago, Wolverine said:

Inmotion also officially announced that in one case the owner refused to send a unicycle for investigation. Everyone can make their own conclusions from such behavior.

Was Inmotion paying for the delivery or was the user expected to pay? If the later then I'd refuse to send it too. I'm also not sure how long I'd keep a wheel after it had caught fire. If it happened on the road then you'd probably find the nearest bin but, even if you were "lucky" enough for it to happen at home how long would you keep it? If you were the manufacturer then would you state this or would you just say the owner refused to send it in for investigation and cast doubt on the owner? 

[TantasStarke]

11 hours ago, Wolverine said:

The information you read on the internet should always be checked, and same goes with the sources. Have you checked the sources? Are these sources reliable? Even when reading a newspaper, you should always be critical of the source. Not everything may be true.

It goes both ways. If a police officer kills an unarmed man, the people speak up, and then the same police department says "we investigated ourselves and found we did no wrong doings" you don't buy that. I'm not saying Inmotion is lying but the "facts" in their document don't add up to the recent fires posted on here. Who is more likely to lie? A rider who will never get compensation (good luck suing a chinese company), or a company trying to save face and protect their brand image?
If one of the fires they investigated is the 5/20/22 V11 fire, and Inmotion is saying the damage happened due to rider error 4 weeks prior, either
1.) Inmotion is pulling these numbers out of their ass and are trying to save face
2.) The guy who's V11 burned down lied about how long he's had the wheel/didn't buy new
3.) Inmotion shipped a wheel with bad batteries in it
4.) The dealer he bought from sold a used wheel instead of a new one

I'm not blindly believing the words of a company that have so much to gain from lying 🤷
 

[360rumors]

2 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

not blindly believing the words of a company that have so much to gain from lying 🤷
 

Whether you believe inmotion or not, these facts are indisputable:
- prior to these incidents, inmotion had the best record for lowest number of fires. I think they might still have that distinction. 
- their designs seem to take more precautions than Begode for example. 
- inmotion is one of the oldest if not the oldest EUC manufacturer.

- EUCs were invented by Shane Chen who created the Solowheel. Inmotion is the only EUC company that entered into a license agreement with the inventor. The others infringe on chen’s patent but they don’t care.

no one is asking you to blindly trust a fly by night operator. But if a company with a long and respected history in its industry posts an analysis, I’m willing to give it more weight than normal. I just bought an inmotion v11 (even after these reports). So far it seems to be working great but I’m monitoring it carefully while charging and checking the battery condition regularly.   I’m thankful that their app makes it possible to check the battery condition and independent voltage.

[Wolverine]

Consumer Product Safety Comission (CPSC) Warns Consumers to Immediately Stop Using King Song Electric Unicycles Due to Fire Hazard - Fire and Injuries Reported
CPSC urges consumers to stop using the unicycles with model number KS-16S immediately and dispose of them at a recycling facility or household hazardous waste collection point. 
CPSC is aware of one fire associated with the electric unicycles that resulted in smoke inhalation injuries to two consumers and caused substantial property damage to a commercial building

https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2022/CPSC-Warns-Consumers-to-Immediately-Stop-Using-King-Song-Electric-Unicycles-Due-to-Fire-Hazard-Fire-and-Injuries-Reported?fbclid=IwAR1cubq61WmLl1_I1wbna2_HB8yypoQ5xIjxILNwlLtKXNcQzXNs-m7BEMY

 

[RagingGrandpa]

On 7/12/2022 at 12:11 PM, Wolverine said:

KS-16S 
CPSC is aware of one fire associated with the electric unicycles that resulted in smoke inhalation injuries to two consumers and caused substantial property damage to a commercial building

Followup discussion regarding US CPSC split to another thread: 
https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/29137-us-federal-agency-wants-a-recall-of-kingsong-16s-due-to-fire-hazard/ 

No further detail about this specific incident has been uncovered yet.

[Kutvis]

2.8.2022 MSP HT 900wh packs.

Stopped charging, was opening cover to see wassup and it burn thru sidepanel.

ONLY bms was combusted, but was propper fire. Not sure if it fits here.

No water, etc. Clean inside. E: No hard falls, nothing I can point out for reason. Well over 1000km since opened and checked last time.

E: Wheel is pretty wrecked, had to call firedepartment and they opened shells with crowbar and ripped out the batteries. Never seen wheel opened so fast! Better picture!

Edited August 4, 2022 by Kutvelo

[360rumors]

GotWay MSP fire https://www.instagram.com/p/ChAV7z9u4V6/?igshid=YzAyZWRlMzg=

 

[360rumors]

Gotway Msx pro exploded after riding on the beach. Suspected cause was water.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/5351086294989290/?fs=e&s=cl

[Asphalt]

16 minutes ago, 360rumors said:

Gotway Msx pro exploded after riding on the beach. Suspected cause was water.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/5351086294989290/?fs=e&s=cl

Thanks for the submission, it has been added to the list as a usage-related fire.

[Asphalt]

25 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

Thanks for the submission, it has been added to the list as a usage-related fire.

Actually, I'm going to remove it from the list because it is just a burnt controller and not a full fire. This would fall under the "smoke" category which is no longer included under the fire listing.
It's still a valuable lesson to those who enjoy beach riding.

[360rumors]

22 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

Actually, I'm going to remove it from the list because it is just a burnt controller and not a full fire. This would fall under the "smoke" category which is no longer included under the fire listing.
It's still a valuable lesson to those who enjoy beach riding.

So you only count fires where most of the battery was on fire? If so maybe your stats should be renamed battery fires. The photo seems to show it is more than smoke and the user claimed it “exploded”. Also, there are some users who say the failure is not due to water but because of faulty soldering.

[360rumors]

34 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

Actually, I'm going to remove it from the list because it is just a burnt controller and not a full fire. This would fall under the "smoke" category which is no longer included under the fire listing.
It's still a valuable lesson to those who enjoy beach riding.

User said the explosion was from the battery. He thinks the wheel got wet.

[Asphalt]

1 hour ago, 360rumors said:

User said the explosion was from the battery. He thinks the wheel got wet.

From the photos, it is apparent that the batteries did not explode - there would be burn marks through the plastic wrapping and likely signs of thermal runaway. The only burned area is on the controller. My guess is that a capacitor blew or something shorted on the board because of all the debris.

While burned controllers are a bummer, they rarely result in catastrophic damage e.g. burning homes down.

There was a time when this list was called "Smoke and Fire History" and included burned controllers, but after some community discussion, it was decided that burned controllers are relatively common and are of lower consequence than full fires. Including burned controllers was muddying the data from what we were all most worried about - fires that destroy lives and property, which are usually the result of battery fires.

[360rumors]

19 hours ago, Asphalt said:

From the photos, it is apparent that the batteries did not explode - there would be burn marks through the plastic wrapping and likely signs of thermal runaway. The only burned area is on the controller. My guess is that a capacitor blew or something shorted on the board because of all the debris.

While burned controllers are a bummer, they rarely result in catastrophic damage e.g. burning homes down.

There was a time when this list was called "Smoke and Fire History" and included burned controllers, but after some community discussion, it was decided that burned controllers are relatively common and are of lower consequence than full fires. Including burned controllers was muddying the data from what we were all most worried about - fires that destroy lives and property, which are usually the result of battery fires.

I see. As a relative noob, I didn’t know burned controllers are common. Are some brands or models more susceptible than others? How to tell?