Fire History

[Rawnei]

15 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

@Mike Sacristan would you mind verifying whether or not the EUC fire that you mentioned in your video is the same incident that Markus Swärdenholt experienced?

We are trying to ensure that fire reports are not duplicated

 

Yes it's the same I can confirm not a new one.

[Asphalt]

4 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Yes it's the same I can confirm not a new one.

Thank-you for confirming.

[GoGeorgeGo]

Not sure where or when but looks recent considering the v12 in the picture. Kingsong s18 in flames 

 

[Asphalt]

@GoGeorgeGo can you provide some details and the source of this S18 fire?

[supercurio]

4 hours ago, Asphalt said:

Thanks for investigating @Paul A

Could this be the same incident as the Nov 1, 2021 MSP HT mentioned by isthereanyfood?
The last name suggests Scandinavian origin.

 

Yes I think it's the same (matches with the discussion in our Stockholm Cruiser group)

Edit: saw later than @Rawnei already confirmed also.

Edited March 13, 2022 by supercurio

[alcatraz]

Is it possible that the overcharge protection of these early Begode 900Wh packs doesn't work? Sounds plausible.

It could be easily tested. Charge one cell group a bit higher than the rest, and then put the wheel to charge. Does charging cut off when that group reaches 4.20-4.25v?

[GoGeorgeGo]

9 hours ago, Asphalt said:

@GoGeorgeGo can you provide some details and the source of this S18 fire?

Nope, just got the video from a telegram group. No deets

[Asphalt]

7 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Nope, just got the video from a telegram group. No deets

I'm hesitant to add this report without context.

From what can be discerned from the video, it's within the realm of possibility (although improbable) that the fire was set intentionally, or the wheel was struck by lightning, or a Gotway employee hammered a nail into its battery pack...etc.

Can you provide the name of the telegram group? If it's not private, can you provide a link for further investigation?

[Wolverine]

22 hours ago, Richardo said:

Video of an electric scooter blow

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZTdy29DNA/

It doesnt look like this guy ever had time to safely drag it out of his house, despite being directly next to a door. 

As we can clearly see from the video, he had no plan for such a situation. It's always a good idea to make a plan on how to get a fire under control for a moment and how to get the flaming device out of the house/apartment quickly.

Small lithium-ion batteries can be doused with water because they contain little lithium metal. Larger lithium-metal battery fires can be put out with a Class D fire extinguisher. A class D fire extinguisher is used on combustible metals, such as magnesium, titanium, sodium, etc., which require an extinguishing medium that does not react with the burning metal. Even larger battery fires are best handled with a foam extinguisher, CO2, ABC dry chemical, powder graphite, copper powder or sodium carbonate.

A large selection of fire blankets developed specifically for Lithium-ion batteries are also nowadays available.

Of course, we can get a fire-resistant bag specially made for a euc.

There are different options, please use them.

[Paul A]

Alkali metals in water - Chemical elements: properties and reactions (1/8)

 

 

[Rawnei]

33 minutes ago, Wolverine said:

As we can clearly see from the video, he had no plan for such a situation. It's always a good idea to make a plan on how to get a fire under control for a moment and how to get the flaming device out of the house/apartment quickly.

Not possible in all cases though, like my apartment if I have it near the door I wont be able to get out as there's only one exit a couple floors up, so I have to plan that in case of fire at least me and my gf have an escape route.

[GoGeorgeGo]

4 hours ago, Asphalt said:

I'm hesitant to add this report without context.

From what can be discerned from the video, it's within the realm of possibility (although improbable) that the fire was set intentionally, or the wheel was struck by lightning, or a Gotway employee hammered a nail into its battery pack...etc.

Can you provide the name of the telegram group? If it's not private, can you provide a link for further investigation?

Its the old boston telegram group. Its called euc discommunity now. Doubt you will find much context though, it was not posted with any extra info. My gut says it occured in china based on who posted it 

Although i do find it curious, would we be hesitant to add it if it was a gotway? Its not like a rumor that an s18 whent up. Its video evidence

Edited March 14, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[redsnapper]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Not possible in all cases though, like my apartment if I have it near the door I wont be able to get out as there's only one exit a couple floors up, so I have to plan that in case of fire at least me and my gf have an escape route.

Everyone who has PEV inside should absolutely have an escape plan if it catches fire; if the only exit is where the device is charged/stored you will be in big trouble if it goes up in flames (along with that area). Batt fires are common enough (hoverboards, power tool packs,euc,scooters, etc.) and imo a solid fire plan is a must or you are literally playing with fire...

[Wolverine]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Not possible in all cases though, like my apartment if I have it near the door I wont be able to get out as there's only one exit a couple floors up, so I have to plan that in case of fire at least me and my gf have an escape route.

You are right, it is not possible in every situation and in that case, we have to have a plan on how to get out of building quickly. If we cannot put out the fire or move the faulty device to safer place, we will have to leave the scene.

What I wanted to say in my post is that people need to have a plan for how to behave in dangerous and surprising situations. The number of battery-powered devices is growing in our lives, and we need to be prepared.

My perspective on fighting fire is perhaps different because I have been trained for it and have done it many times in my life. I hope no one feels offended.

[Funky]

3 hours ago, Wolverine said:

As we can clearly see from the video, he had no plan for such a situation. It's always a good idea to make a plan on how to get a fire under control for a moment and how to get the flaming device out of the house/apartment quickly.

Small lithium-ion batteries can be doused with water because they contain little lithium metal. Larger lithium-metal battery fires can be put out with a Class D fire extinguisher. A class D fire extinguisher is used on combustible metals, such as magnesium, titanium, sodium, etc., which require an extinguishing medium that does not react with the burning metal. Even larger battery fires are best handled with a foam extinguisher, CO2, ABC dry chemical, powder graphite, copper powder or sodium carbonate.

A large selection of fire blankets developed specifically for Lithium-ion batteries are also nowadays available.

Of course, we can get a fire-resistant bag specially made for a euc.

There are different options, please use them.

 

 

I got pretty big aquarium, under it i place the euc. If fire starts as saying goes: In case of fire "break glass". < jk.

I wonder if burning euc would be dropped in tub full of water. (As it gets merged under water) Would the batteries still burn/explode?

Closet with "rockwool" inside would be pretty great fire insulation.. That case only problem would be those black smokes.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59931896

10 January, 2022

 

New York fire: At least 19 killed in apartment block blaze

At least 19 people, including nine children, have died after a fire in a New York apartment building.

Another 32 people were sent to hospital, several of whom are in a critical condition, according to New York Mayor Eric Adams.

Fire department Commissioner Daniel Nigro said they had found victims on every floor of the 19-storey block, saying the smoke was "unprecedented".

He told NBC News the death toll was the worst seen in New York for 30 years.

 

Sunday's fire broke out in an apartment that spans the second and third floors of the Bronx apartment block at about 11:00 local time (16:00 GMT), officials said.

Some 200 firefighters were sent to tackle the blaze, which officials believe was sparked by a malfunctioning electric heater.

Commissioner Nigro said there were two floors of fire, but the smoke had spread everywhere.

 

The door to the apartment where the fire started was left open, and smoke then spread to every floor, Commissioner Nigro told reporters.

"Members found victims on every floor in stairwells and were taking them out in cardiac and respiratory arrest," he said.

In a virtual news conference on Monday, Andrew Ansbro, the president of the firefighters' union, said the building was "well-known in that area, for having difficult fires", noting that its fire protection rules with regard to sprinklers and self-closing doors may have been different from those of the city.

 

The local fire chief said the blaze was "unprecedented"

 

Victims were found on every floor of the building

[Paul A]

Lithium reacts violently in water.

Video above, time mark 1.00, lithium into water, producing highly flammable/explosive Hydrogen gas.

Smoke inhalation is common cause of death in house fires.

[Tawpie]

52 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

would we be hesitant to add it if it was a gotway?

I wouldn't think so, but I don't run the list. My understanding is that some verification of the circumstances is helpful because it lets us know what not to do. More detail always helps—but it sure looked like smoke and flame, and looked like it was well fueled (implication that the batteries were burning). Maybe it was only the control board, but it didn't look that way!

[Funky]

5 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Lithium reacts violently in water.

Video above, time mark 1.00, lithium into water, producing highly flammable/explosive Hydrogen gas.

Smoke inhalation is common cause of death in house fires.

So best bet would be to use special fire blankets or special enclosure made to contain the fire.. Fire is the most important in my case. Smoke can get aired out. Fire will burn whole house down.

[Chriull]

14 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Lithium reacts violently in water.

Video above, time mark 1.00, lithium into water, producing highly flammable/explosive Hydrogen gas.

Yes. But the venting cells already above thermal runaway already react very violently.

Water helps to cool down the rest of the cells so they do not start reacting, too. These intact cells are not only not "harmed" by water but saved by the cooling effect.

Although for the big EUC batteries dumping into big water containers could be needed for some effect.

Pouring some water from a hose in most cases won't be able to cool down the cells (often split on two sides) but just endangers oneself.

 

[conecones]

17 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Lithium reacts violently in water.

Video above, time mark 1.00, lithium into water, producing highly flammable/explosive Hydrogen gas.

Smoke inhalation is common cause of death in house fires.

That video brings back memories of high school chemistry class but it's not relevant for our EUC batteries, because they are lithium-ion, not lithium-metal. This is a common misconception about using water to put out lithium-ion batteries. If you google "water vs lithium battery" it defaults to showing reactions between water and lithium-metal batteries.

Battery University has a great article about lithium-ion safety and a bit of history: https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-304a-safety-concerns-with-li-ion

Water is an acceptable way to fight lithium-ion battery fires. Usually because it's the only thing you have left after the 10s spray from a typical ABC extinguisher.

[Paul A]

Fire blankets might be the most practical way to contain the spread of fire.

Might act as a shield to enable a person to get to the burning wheel, act as a shield for hands to grab the wheel, and extract to outside.

But again, should not underestimate smoke that can incapacitate and kill.

[Paul A]

Lithium Ion Batteries: Why They Explode

Oct 28, 2016

University of Michigan Engineering

41.4K subscribers

 

[Paul A]

Lithium batteries, non rechargeable.

Lithium ion batteries, rechargeable.

Thanks Conecones.

[Asphalt]

11 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Its the old boston telegram group. Its called euc discommunity now. Doubt you will find much context though, it was not posted with any extra info. My gut says it occured in china based on who posted it 

Although i do find it curious, would we be hesitant to add it if it was a gotway? Its not like a rumor that an s18 whent up. Its video evidence

Fair point. I’ll add it to the list. Hopefully more information will be made available.