Fire History

[Asphalt]

4 hours ago, 360rumors said:

I see. As a relative noob, I didn’t know burned controllers are common. Are some brands or models more susceptible than others? How to tell?

Some of the more common causes of burned controllers include:

• Requesting more power than the control board can handle
• Debris or moisture shorting control board components.
• Overheating the control board
• Poor manufacturing

Some control boards will have a fuse to prevent the control board from damage.

Examples of situations resulting in burned control boards:

• Overheat Hill - slowly riding up a steep incline for a long period of time
• Mud stuck in the wheel well - causing the wheel to get stuck while the rider tries to accelerate
• Kickstand grabs wheel and prevents it from spinning (V12 with knobby tire)
• Repeatedly riding up very steep inclines without allow the control board to cool down
• Poorly manufactured/assembled control boards where poorly insulated power cables run across capacitors.
• Riding an EUC with poor ingress protection through water, rain, sand, dirt, snow, etc.

All manufacturers have dealt with blown control boards. The more recently released wheels tend to have better ingress protection, as well as, fuses to prevent burning control boards.

 

[360rumors]

Begode RS19 

“RST owners my RST batteries caught on fire while sitting turned off.  Haven't ridden in 2 weeks. Around 2 weeks ago had problem charging to 100V would not charge above 92V.  My reseller recommended checking the voltage from each pack.  Just received S22 so just parked RST.  Luckily I heard it pop and the Fire.  1st batch, 1400 miles.  I ride casual not hard.”

https://www.facebook.com/100046721797392/posts/pfbid031UC44R1LRmfH1tFdeb1NHd3dvUCcuXgtp2SVZKuXvGPd29tXKcwB4yWatRcmcBJxl/?d=n

 

 

[Asphalt]

Thanks for notifying us of the RS HT fire. It has been added to the list of fires.

[360rumors]

4 hours ago, Asphalt said:

Thanks for notifying us of the RS HT fire. It has been added to the list of fires.

Honestly, with 2 other Begode/Gotway wheels, I'm having second thoughts about my T4 preorder.

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, 360rumors said:

Honestly, with 2 other Begode/Gotway wheels, I'm having second thoughts about my T4 preorder.

Bah. Nothing to worry about... BG's recent batteries have been fine! Really, I wouldn't be any more worried about these packs than any other. 

[360rumors]

51 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Bah. Nothing to worry about... BG's recent batteries have been fine! Really, I wouldn't be any more worried about these packs than any other. 

Isn’t rs19 ht fairly recent?

[Mayhem]

40 minutes ago, 360rumors said:

Isn’t rs19 ht fairly recent?

Late 2020/ early 2021 iirc… but the fact that the wheel was only charging to 92v was a clear sign their was already an issue with the battery. How long was the decline in voltage being ignored??? (Unknown) 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Mayhem

[Asphalt]

5 hours ago, 360rumors said:

Isn’t rs19 ht fairly recent?

The RS HT originally shipped with the Begode 900Wh battery packs made with the problematic LG M50T cells.

After many fires, Begode switched to Samsung 50E cells, which haven’t had any reported fires so far.

Begode also offered fire-resistant LiFePo cells, but no one bought them because of the 40% loss of battery capacity for the same number of cells.

eWheels is offering the RS HT with  Molicell p42a batteries, which can charge/discharge at much higher rates without being stressed.

Begode has been taking steps to reduce fires, so the T4 has a lower probability of being a fire hazard compared to early RS and MSP batches.

If you’re worried about it, consider getting the Molicell version of the T4.

[360rumors]

9 hours ago, Asphalt said:

The RS HT originally shipped with the Begode 900Wh battery packs made with the problematic LG M50T cells.

After many fires, Begode switched to Samsung 50E cells, which haven’t had any reported fires so far.

Begode also offered fire-resistant LiFePo cells, but no one bought them because of the 40% loss of battery capacity for the same number of cells.

eWheels is offering the RS HT with  Molicell p42a batteries, which can charge/discharge at much higher rates without being stressed.

Begode has been taking steps to reduce fires, so the T4 has a lower probability of being a fire hazard compared to early RS and MSP batches.

If you’re worried about it, consider getting the Molicell version of the T4.

Thanks yes I was actually interested in the RS resolute but it was sadly discontinued. As for t4, I ordered from ewheels which will only carry the Samsung 40t version. I do hope that it is safe enough.

Edited August 20, 2022 by 360rumors

[Asphalt]

4 hours ago, 360rumors said:

Thanks yes I was actually interested in the RS resolute but it was sadly discontinued. As for t4, I ordered from ewheels which will only carry the Samsung 40t version. I do hope that it is safe enough.

40t should be able to discharge/charge quick enough to handle power demands without overly stressing the cells.

Keep in mind that battery cells are only one part of the fire management equation. There’s firmware, control board, BMS, capacitors, mosfets, hall sensors, fuses, nickel strips, vibration, impact, puncture, heat, moisture, dust, wire gauge, assembly, riding style, riding environment, maintenance, mileage, charging rates, charging limits, charging frequency, storage environment - a lot of factors to consider.

That said, EUCs are one of the simplest and low maintenance PEVs, with most of these considerations applying to other PEVs as well.

As long as you’re aware of how things work and their limitations, then you can make informed decisions to manage your risk profile.

[Asphalt]

Gotway Nikola fire 1800Wh with LG M50T

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/5369189486512304/

Edited August 20, 2022 by Asphalt
Changed to Facebook link, which has more detail about the incident.

[Mayhem]

Ewheels customers who own a msp, nikola + & RS models 

Check your inboxes for a battery recall Email from ewheels.

There is currently an email making it’s away around the telegram chats stating a battery recall for ewheels customers with instructions (remove packs, discard them and fill out form for free replacement packs.) 

Check for email or contact ewheels for more info. Just passing along info I’ve seen floating around. 
 

dedicated thread can be found here 

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/29708-immediate-gotwaybegode-msp-nikola-rs-battery-pack-fire-hazard-disposal-notice-ewheels-customers/

 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Mayhem

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Mayhem said:

discard them

You MUST (all caps, I am yelling!) get a receipt or photo of you turning them into a recycling center. Throwing them in the trash is neither the right thing to do, nor will it get you a replacement!

And the recall by eWheels and for eWheels customers only. Begode is not involved. Begode already advises replacing your batteries every year so if you've followed their counsel, you've replaced your potentially bad batteries long ago.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Tawpie

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

You MUST (all caps, I am yelling!) get a receipt or photo of you turning them into a recycling center. Throwing them in the trash is neither the right thing to do, nor will it get you a replacement!

And the recall by eWheels and for eWheels customers only. Begode is not involved. Begode already advises replacing your batteries every year so if you've followed their counsel, you've replaced your potentially bad batteries long ago.

Is this for the litech batteries aswell or is this different batteries ? I was riding today and my wheel locked up and then would not shut off ..it finally shutoff and I opened it up and seen that the capacitors blew and melted the right wires that go to the board and scorched the board aswell thankfully nothing burst into flames but it’s really disappointing .I’ve had the wheel only 4 months it’s pretty sad major components like this can’t even last that long 😭😩😩 .I’m am glad this didn’t happen at high speed or it would have been really bad 

[Tawpie]

8 minutes ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

Is this for the litech batteries aswell or is this different batteries ?

Different batteries, several years old. BG stopped using the troublesome cells some time ago.

If you're an affected eWheels customer, I'm certain you'll get notified.

Bummer about the board (eWheels will take care of you on that too, but expect them to be slammed—they still owe me an entire wheel so no cuts in line ok?)... I hope you weren't hurt?

Edited August 21, 2022 by Tawpie

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

Just now, Tawpie said:

Different batteries, several years old. BG stopped using the troublesome cells some time ago.

If you're an affected eWheels customer, I'm certain you'll get notified.

Bummer about the board (eWheels will take care of you on that too, but expect them to be slammed—they still owe me an entire wheel so no cuts in line ok?)... I hope you weren't hurt?

The wheel just locked up and flopped over right onto the headlight .I went down right on my chest  and it knocked the wind outta me .I was fully geared up armored coat helmet shin,knee and wrist guards so I faired pretty well .

[enaon]

16 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Different batteries, several years old. BG stopped using the troublesome cells some time ago.

 

 There is no real evidence that cell model have anything to do with fires, else  kingsong's s18 should be self igniting too, among other wheels.

I think that the "blame the LG mt50t" is just another way of saying "we love gotway too much". 

ewhells knows that many wheels come with lgm50t installed, they sell them, if the cells are to blame, why is there not a recall for all of them, why only gotways?

Edited August 21, 2022 by enaon

[techyiam]

3 minutes ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

The wheel just locked up and flopped over right onto the headlight .I went down right on my chest  and it knocked the wind outta me .I was fully geared up armored coat helmet shin,knee and wrist guards so I faired pretty well .

Good on ya to wear all the gear all the time. Landed on the chest. That full face helmet must have smacked on the ground too. Glad you are OK.

[Tawpie]

21 minutes ago, enaon said:

There is no real evidence that cell model have anything to do with fires, else  kingsong's s18 should be self igniting too, among other wheels.

This is true. Nobody really knows why the old 900 wH GW packs seem to be more self-combustable than other packs.

My spidey sense says it's a combination of the M50T cells and how they're allowed to operate. KS is routinely pilloried for limiting their wheels up to the point of dumping the rider to save the hardware. BG's approach as been to give much more responsibility to the rider… if you want to push super hard, you're allowed to do so. I'm guessing that BG's system allows a larger window for cell damage to occur and this is why eWheels isn't recalling S18 batteries. Could be totally wrong, a guess is a guess.

 

21 minutes ago, enaon said:

just another way of saying "we love gotway too much". 

Also true, I do love my GW wheel (note the model under my avatar thingi). As long as it's not in the house. When it's too cold outside, it's in the fireplace even though it doesn't have an unusual history of fire… but I'm rolling the dice and ignoring GWs recommendation—I don't replace its battery every year. FWIW, wheels outside not a brand thing—the KSs live outside too. As reliable as Li-ion is, it isn't perfect.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Tawpie

[enaon]

19 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Nobody really knows why the old 900 wH GW packs seem to be more self-combustable than other packs.

My spidey sense says it's a combination of the M50T cells and how they're allowed to operate.

I read their email a bit more carefull, they provide a reasonable explanation, the same thing you explain, and that I agree with. The cells are being driven out of limits with no failsafes, gotway style. 

I call this begode being "who cares",  ewheels calls it "inferior lgm50lt cells",  it was LG's fault for not refusing to sell to begode I guess, like it was Infineon's fault that it was on the inmotion V12. 

anyway I am in a galaxy far far away from USA, but I think something is really strange in this story. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by enaon

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, enaon said:

I think something is really strange in this story. 

And don't forget... eWheels refused to sell any BG products until they could get their own batteries installed. They are starting to make exceptions, but for over a year you couldn't get BG from eWheels.

And they held their ground with KS after the S20 fire—so I'm still waiting for my wheel. It'll come with more expensive batteries without added cost to me, but somebody paid for them...

As much as I hate the delay (and being an optimist), I'm thinking that eWheels—specifically @Jason McNeil is putting a lot of money where their "customer safety" mouth is. I'm also guessing that as a US business, they know full well the risk they take selling product that may harbor danger to consumers and are doing what they feel is necessary to reduce the risk to their business.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Tawpie

[360rumors]

56 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

And don't forget... eWheels refused to sell any BG products until they could get their own batteries installed. They are starting to make exceptions, but for over a year you couldn't get BG from eWheels.

And they held their ground with KS after the S20 fire—so I'm still waiting for my wheel. It'll come with more expensive batteries without added cost to me, but somebody paid for them...

As much as I hate the delay (and being an optimist), I'm thinking that eWheels—specifically @Jason McNeil is putting a lot of money where their "customer safety" mouth is. I'm also guessing that as a US business, they know full well the risk they take selling product that may harbor danger to consumers and are doing what they feel is necessary to reduce the risk to their business.

The part that I'm wondering about is why should Begode be allowed to do business this way?  It's profiting at the expense of its distributors and customers are unknowingly playing Russian roulette...!

[Planemo]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

My spidey sense says it's a combination of the M50T cells

ewheels' email states LG50LT. Which cell is in the packs causing the problem?

[alcatraz]

4 hours ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

Is this for the litech batteries aswell or is this different batteries ? I was riding today and my wheel locked up and then would not shut off ..it finally shutoff and I opened it up and seen that the capacitors blew and melted the right wires that go to the board and scorched the board aswell thankfully nothing burst into flames but it’s really disappointing .I’ve had the wheel only 4 months it’s pretty sad major components like this can’t even last that long 😭😩😩 .I’m am glad this didn’t happen at high speed or it would have been really bad 

A cap getting disconnected like this will not shut off the wheel. It will become more sluggish (I think). 

Unless this is just a result of a different failure somewhere else. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by alcatraz

[Planemo]

15 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

A cap getting disconnected like this will not shut off the wheel. It will become more sluggish (I think). 

It can, and does. A friend had a cap (only one) burst on his MSX. The wheel seemed find below around 10mph but over that it dumped him, twice, before we realised what it was. It seems without caps (or even one) the slightest amount of power draw will overpower the wheel.

Edit: but you make a point, it MAY not actually shut off the wheel. We can't remember what happened with my friends one - whether the wheel was still on or had switched off after we picked it up and treated injuries.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Planemo