New Future Fan

[PY ⠀]

Hi all, started reading a couple of posts here and thought Id join in the fun. 34 yr old dude from Montreal, enjoy sports and music  .So this summer I tried a OneWheel and a InMotion V8. Its clear at this point that EUCs won me over the OW.

Looking at purchasing either a 16x, Nikola, or MSX. I’m really not a bells and whistle guy and could care less about the look of a wheel or its speakers. I want a fast, stable, practical, nimble, and reliable wheel.

How is the ride on the MSX vs Nikola?

Is the 18” MSX really less practical in the city than a 16” Nikola?

[The Fat Unicyclist]

Hi @PY ⠀ and welcome.

You mention all these wheels, but your profile shows, "EUC: KS16X". Is that a hint of which way you're leaning?

Edited October 9, 2019 by The Fat Unicyclist

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, PY ⠀ said:

Is the 18” MSX really less practical in the city than a 16” Nikola?

Trolley handle: yes. Acceleration and braking: slightly. Manoeuvrebility: a bit. Riding comfort: for me, a lot. Unpaved grip when wet: a lot. (Not much difference on pavement though.)

[PY ⠀]

9 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Hi @PY ⠀ and welcome.

You mention all these wheels, but your profile shows, "EUC: KS16X". Is that a hint of which way you're leaning?

That field was required so I put one of the options. Just changed it to “Still shopping around”.?😉

[PY ⠀]

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Trolley handle: yes. Acceleration and braking: slightly. Manoeuvrebility: a bit. Riding comfort: for me, a lot. Unpaved grip when wet: a lot. (Not much difference on pavement though.)

Just to be clear, in your opinion comfort and grip on wet is a lot better on a Nikola?

[meepmeepmayer]

20 minutes ago, PY ⠀ said:

Just to be clear, in your opinion comfort and grip on wet is a lot better on a Nikola?

To be fair, that depends entirely on the tire. You can always switch to a knobby tire on either wheel and than you can go slip-free through slippery mud, wet grass, etc. So it doesn't have too much to do with the wheel itself.

As for MSX vs. Nikola, both are undoubtedly great. But a lot of people fawn over how nice the Nikola rides (especially the 100V Nikola) and say it's like a better MSX. The MSX has its advantages, too, though - bigger tire for more comfort, actually smaller and lighter than the Nikola, maybe better price. If you can't choose, go by looks and just which one appeals to you more.

[Mark Lee]

35 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

To be fair, that depends entirely on the tire. You can always switch to a knobby tire on either wheel and than you can go slip-free through slippery mud, wet grass, etc. So it doesn't have too much to do with the wheel itself.

As for MSX vs. Nikola, both are undoubtedly great. But a lot of people fawn over how nice the Nikola rides (especially the 100V Nikola) and say it's like a better MSX. The MSX has its advantages, too, though - bigger tire for more comfort, actually smaller and lighter than the Nikola, maybe better price. If you can't choose, go by looks and just which one appeals to you more.

I've been riding KS16X exclusively last few days getting use to new wheel.  Yesterday took out the MSX to my surprise it took much more effort than I remember.  My body must of been more tense on MSX took much more out of me lol.  They are both great wheels.

[mike_bike_kite]

18 hours ago, PY ⠀ said:

Looking at purchasing either a 16x, Nikola, or MSX. I’m really not a bells and whistle guy and could care less about the look of a wheel or its speakers. I want a fast, stable, practical, nimble, and reliable wheel.

I'm a complete beginner so take this with a pinch of salt. Fast and stable suggests an 18" wheel but fast and stable wheels won't be nimble. If you have to carry any of the machines you've mentioned up stairs then an 18" wheel won't be practical either. There seems to be various issues on the 16x and a couple on the Nikola while the MSX doesn't appear to have any issues. If you want reliable and nimble then it might be worth looking at the KS16S but it isn't as fast as the other wheels you mention.  At the end of the day you have to ask yourself whether you're the type of guy that wants to do 30mph on a unicycle.

Would it be worth giving us your weight and what you intend to use it for? Will you ever need to carry it up stairs? Is budget an issue?

[LanghamP]

Many if not most riders end up buying a 14 and an 18 incher, as that covers almost all use cases.

[Ben Kim]

don’t buy the 16X. Being arbitrarily limited in the name of “safety” is asinine, and would much prefer one that lets me dictate my own limits with audible suggestions. 

I own a Nikola and Monster, I would go with a 100V Nikola. ticks all the boxes, only negative is the weight and somewhat unbalanced nature of the design, both of which you’ll adjust to. 

[LanghamP]

52 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

don’t buy the 16X. Being arbitrarily limited in the name of “safety” is asinine, and would much prefer one that lets me dictate my own limits with audible suggestions. 

I own a Nikola and Monster, I would go with a 100V Nikola. ticks all the boxes, only negative is the weight and somewhat unbalanced nature of the design, both of which you’ll adjust to. 

Gotways are hospital patient's favorite owners.

I remember riding those tiny jetskiis except instead of jetskiis they had outboard motors. Fuuun!

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Gotways are hospital patient's favorite owners.

What a generalisation... Unfortunately a bit too 2017. I take it you haven’t been reading the 16X issues very closely.

Too many faceplants, so KS lowered the low battery speed limits for firmware 1.06. (Currently at 1.07, the seventh bugfix attempt.) @chrisjunlee was able to locate severe pedal dipping issue when riding into an incline at above 25mph. The same behaviour made also him crash later on. Now KS is providing an updated mainboard to test if it fixes the issue.

How many have overleaned or otherwise crashed on a Nikola? Btw, it has only received one bugfix so far, despite being sold for longer than the 16X.

[LanghamP]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

What a generalisation... Unfortunately a bit too 2017. I take it you haven’t been reading the 16X issues very closely.

I haven't been reading the 16x's woes, under the assumption that any new wheel model has a high failure rate. Evidently the 16x has pages of problems (far too many to actually read).

If it's a new wheel model, then don't buy it until it has gone through a few iterations. Have often have we heard this?

[PY ⠀]

12 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Many if not most riders end up buying a 14 and an 18 incher, as that covers almost all use cases.

Yeah its a good idea, but for now nice itll be my first wheel I think a 16” wheel is a good option for now.

[mrelwood]

5 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

I haven't been reading the 16x's woes,

Well, there are still many. But it doesn’t seem to be an issue with a failure rate as much, but a design issue. And since it has caused several high speed crashes, I’d say it’s more on the severe side.

 

5 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

If it's a new wheel model, then don't buy it until it has gone through a few iterations. Have often have we heard this?

Absolutely, many times. But someone has to buy the first ones for the issues to be located, reported and (hopefully) fixed.

Perhaps it’s time to update your consensus of GW being a hospitalising brand though.

[PY ⠀]

18 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Would it be worth giving us your weight and what you intend to use it for? Will you ever need to carry it up stairs? Is budget an issue?

- 180 lbs

- I will use it for long rides in suburbs bike path but also downtown when transiting from train to the office. I also plan on  trying light off road trails.. so really lots of different use cases.

- ill have to carry it up a few case very occasionnaly. Im in good shape so i really dont mine the extra pounds one wheel would have (I wouldnt go for the Monster anyway)

- No budget issues. But I also dont wanna pay for bells and whistle I wont use. Like led strips and speakers are useless imo.

This is why i looked into the MSX, as I thought it would be cheaper being an older generation.. but looks like a 84v MSX 1600wh is 2000usd, while the Nikola 84v 1600wh is the same price... thats strange.

Also, if get the Nikola, I know that 100v 1800wh is better, but is it really worth 550$ more?

i feel like the 84v 1600wh would be plenty sufficient... no need for ranges above 50 miles / 80 km

[stephen]

34 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

I haven't been reading the 16x's woes, under the assumption that any new wheel model has a high failure rate. Evidently the 16x has pages of problems (far too many to actually read

I wouldn't say the 16x has pages of problems I'd say people rant about problems they think are there and some are down to user error and don't give it chance , there's been a couple if teething problems which are now sorted with firmware updates and a one off problem so far with chrisjunlees 16x  other than that it's been fine

[Rafal]

22 minutes ago, PY ⠀ said:

(I wouldnt go for the Monster anyway)

If you go for a Monster than Nikola is a better choice. 100v is faster and safer, have bigger battery. It is much better to have some speed margin, than riding on the edge.

 

KS wheels are less reliable than Gotway those days. And are not safer for sure. I have seen ks14s cut off, 18xl cut off and 16x cut off and KS tilltback is very aggressive.

[Alex Gruzglin]

47 minutes ago, PY ⠀ said:

Like led strips and speakers are useless imo.

This will come quite handy if you do any riding during the darker hours of the day. The more visible you are at night, the better. Trust me.

48 minutes ago, PY ⠀ said:

Also, if get the Nikola, I know that 100v 1800wh is better, but is it really worth 550$ more?

The consensus is that 100V Nikola accelerates faster then 84V. Think of acceleration as major safety feature. It also has higher top end speed, which maybe not in a beginning, but after a few months of riding you will want to have. Think of it as a buffer, you might not need it all the time, but there will be a time you wish you had it. Buffer speed is good.

48 minutes ago, PY ⠀ said:

feel like the 84v 1600wh would be plenty sufficient... no need for ranges above 50 miles / 80 km

100V wheels are more efficient then 84V. You can get longer mileage out of every charge. I don't do 50 mile rides, but I also don't have to think about charging my wheel quite as often, and I always have a bigger buffer to get me home.

Another thing to consider is the  quality of the shell. One day sooner or later, you will drop your wheel, and Nikola has a lot better built shell then MSX.

This is such an addictive hobby that whether you realize it or not, you will end up getting more then one wheel. 

 

[Declan acoustic-unicyclist]

44 minutes ago, Rafal said:

If you go for a Monster than Nikola is a better choice. 100v is faster and safer, have bigger battery. It is much better to have some speed margin, than riding on the edge.

 

KS wheels are less reliable than Gotway those days. And are not safer for sure. I have seen ks14s cut off, 18xl cut off and 16x cut off and KS tilltback is very aggressive.

Yes, yes, yes

I have ridden KS and Gotway and have had the same experience. Literally never been able to cut off my mten3, yet my KS14S and 16B cut out on small potholes all the time

 

 

Gotway makes a better ride

KS is a better commuting package

[Dzlchef]

1 hour ago, PY ⠀ said:

- 180 lbs

- I will use it for long rides in suburbs bike path but also downtown when transiting from train to the office. I also plan on  trying light off road trails.. so really lots of different use cases.

- ill have to carry it up a few case very occasionnaly. Im in good shape so i really dont mine the extra pounds one wheel would have (I wouldnt go for the Monster anyway)

- No budget issues. But I also dont wanna pay for bells and whistle I wont use. Like led strips and speakers are useless imo.

This is why i looked into the MSX, as I thought it would be cheaper being an older generation.. but looks like a 84v MSX 1600wh is 2000usd, while the Nikola 84v 1600wh is the same price... thats strange.

Also, if get the Nikola, I know that 100v 1800wh is better, but is it really worth 550$ more?

i feel like the 84v 1600wh would be plenty sufficient... no need for ranges above 50 miles / 80 km

If money isn’t an issue, definitely go with the Nikola 100V, otherwise the 84V. I wouldn’t buy a MSX now as the Nikola is much more versatile, newer, and user friendly with a better trolley and lift/kill switch. 

[LanghamP]

35 minutes ago, Alex Gruzglin said:

This is such an addictive hobby that whether you realize it or not, you will end up getting more then one wheel. 

This is the only hobby that I know of that, assuming you have a car OR access to public transportation, has you spend less money the more often you participate in it.

That is, the more you ride the less your expenses are.

For example, let's assume you buy a wheel while getting rid of your car. You've then spent $6000 less in the first year.

Perhaps instead you ride your wheel half the time instead of your car; about half of car trips are 3 miles or less, and so you've saved a pile of money if you use your wheel instead.

Or perhaps you need to catch a bus or tram; you're probably about four times faster than walking, and EUCs are far handier than bicycles are.

You might stick a wheel in your car at all times; this means you become parking agnostic, and it might even save your life if you find your car stuck (ie a fire in a car tunnel).

The one drawback, and it's a major one, is the likelihood of injury is effectively 100%. Now given enough time every mood of transportation is a statistical certainty, but riding an EUC that likelihood is measured in months (weeks?) and not years.

[mike_bike_kite]

I know you said you're happy to carry these things up stairs but the larger models you're looking at do weigh almost the same as a maxed out suitcase for airlines. Having to carry that up and down stairs would quickly get on my nerves. Also, because it's your first wheel, remember you're going to crash it a lot. It just seems a shame to spend $2000 on something and then turn it into $1000 by just going through the standard learning process. Wouldn't it be better just getting any 2nd hand model you can find and then get all those early crashes out the way on that? You'd probably find you know exactly what you want after you've had more time on one. You might actually find a used KS18L that would do everything you need rather than everything you want.

[Gustesta]

If you're a tall and heavy guy, likes street riding, likes speed etc., go for the Nikola 100v 1230wh.  It has less range than the 1830wh, but it's lighter and very nimble.  It's an absolute beast on streets.   So much faster than the 16x.

If you like trail riding, you're not heavy and neither a tall guy, don't want to push speed limits etc., go to the 16x.

Trust me.  I owned both.  It's all a matter of what you're looking for and your body type.

 

[PY ⠀]

6 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I know you said you're happy to carry these things up stairs but the larger models you're looking at do weigh almost the same as a maxed out suitcase for airlines. Having to carry that up and down stairs would quickly get on my nerves. Also, because it's your first wheel, remember you're going to crash it a lot. It just seems a shame to spend $2000 on something and then turn it into $1000 by just going through the standard learning process. Wouldn't it be better just getting any 2nd hand model you can find and then get all those early crashes out the way on that? You'd probably find you know exactly what you want after you've had more time on one. You might actually find a used KS18L that would do everything you need rather than everything you want.

Ive thought about buying a ks16s, as it seemed a reasonable first wheel with decent power, and a used one woukd’ve been fairly cheap. But im scared of buying this kind of equipment used and get bad surprises.. after that I looked at a brand new 16s and they are 1800 CA$. Now I could get a new 16x for 700$ more and thats a small price to pay to avoid regretting the 16s after a few weeks of riding.

I’m a speed demon (used to ride my motorcycle > 260 km/h) and i feel like i will be limited by the 16s. Maybe Im wrong.. what are your thought?

Didn’t think this decision would be so tough.