New Future Fan

[meepmeepmayer]

8 minutes ago, PY ⠀ said:

But im scared of buying this kind of equipment used and get bad surprises..

EUCs are very simple machines and there is essentially no space for bad surprises, mostly they're either 100% or 0%. As long as

a) it works perfectly when you buy it

b) there's no obvious/serious mechanical damage (huge crash that did God knows what to the wheel internals) and

c) the battery hasn't been extremely abused (you can't see it but it is very hard to abuse a battery unless you do it on purpose),

a used wheel is a great way to save money. You get the same as a new wheel (minus some cosmetic scratches) for a significantly lower price. No worries about used wheels, it's the ideal low-price wheel or training wheel for a beginner as long as it is good when you buy it.

13 minutes ago, PY ⠀ said:

I’m a speed demon (used to ride my motorcycle > 260 km/h) and i feel like i will be limited by the 16s. Maybe Im wrong.. what are your thought?

Yes you will. Do yourself a favor and get a Nikola 100V right away, for you I'd definitely take it over a 16X.

[mike_bike_kite]

1 hour ago, PY ⠀ said:

I’m a speed demon (used to ride my motorcycle > 260 km/h) and i feel like i will be limited by the 16s. Maybe Im wrong.. what are your thought?

Didn’t think this decision would be so tough.

Considering I don't have any more experience than you, I'm not sure whether I should be offering advice but hey ho  I used to be a bit foolish on motorcycles and have crashed and written off so many it's getting difficult to remember all the accidents now. I still have 4 in the garage but I've made a conscious effort to go for slower bikes now. My favourite at the moment is actually a Royal Enfield Classic. It's slow but I enjoy every moment on it. The problem with riding fast on an EUC is that it can be quickly followed by sliding fast on your face. Speed demon + fastest EUC available + no experience doesn't sound like a winning combination to me.

I know exactly what you mean about how tough it is to decide on a wheel though. I spent ages deciding what wheel to get 1st and now I'm already reading all the reviews on this forum and watching endless youtube videos to decide what will be my next wheel. 

[Alex Gruzglin]

When I started out, I bought KingSong 18XL, which was a high end wheel at a high end price back then. I then realized that I really didnt want to damage it while learning. What I ended up doing was finding a new refurbished Ninebot One E+ on eBay, buying it for around $260, learning on it, beating the living hell out of it, then selling it for $100. I'd totally say that those weeks of learning on a solid wheel that you are not afraid to beat up is totally worth $160. If you go that route, you might be able to sell yours almost what you paid for it. Or keep it as a beater wheel for friends and family.

[PY ⠀]

@Alex Gruzglin Thats an option, but I cant find anything under 1000$ in my area, they’re so rare. You trust ebay for those things?

@mike_bike_kite I take it you kite as well? Kite surf?

Edited October 12, 2019 by PY ⠀

[The Fat Unicyclist]

16 hours ago, PY ⠀ said:

Looks like heavy protection will be a must...

Depending on the model you select, there may be the option of purchasing an EUC Bodyguard (full disclosure: made by my company).

It allows you to buy a higher end wheel, without guaranteeing you will trash it while learning. And you can customise them to add some personalised style too!

Edited October 12, 2019 by The Fat Unicyclist

[mike_bike_kite]

On 10/12/2019 at 8:31 AM, PY ⠀ said:

 

@mike_bike_kite I take it you kite as well? Kite surf?

I've done kite surfing but I just wasn't any good at it - it felt like you're were being waterboarded and beaten up at the same time. I mostly fly kites on my local park though I did run the kite show the year before last and we ended up with 10,000 people coming along!

[EDIT]Also forgot to mention I also flew paramotors and they're just like a large 30m traction kite.

Edited October 14, 2019 by mike_bike_kite
Forgot to mention

[PY ⠀]

@mike_bike_kite Woah thats nice! I got a 5m I fly for fun (jumpin in sand pits and on the beach) and took a 1 day lesson of kite surfing. It is hard indeed

@The Fat Unicyclist it’s actually a great product you got there. Will look it up when I get my wheel.

[RockyTop]

I remember being in your position. I don’t regret buying a KS16s as a learner wheel. In my case I have used it to train 5 people and counting. I also see why others have just bought their ultimate wheel to learn on. 

I have 4 wheels now. I use the MSX for everything. ( Wife and family use the others). I know my wheel well and rather have it even when it is not the best wheel for the job. 

 

[Alex Gruzglin]

On 10/12/2019 at 3:31 AM, PY ⠀ said:

Thats an option, but I cant find anything under 1000$ in my area, they’re so rare. You trust ebay for those things?

Yes, I do. I recommended this to several other people.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Refurbished-Segway-Ninebot-One-E-E-Plus-Electric-Unicycle-One-Wheel-Scooter/283624398182?hash=item420954dd66:g:1PwAAOSwaP5cah6h

[Declan acoustic-unicyclist]

On 10/10/2019 at 6:35 PM, PY ⠀ said:

Ive thought about buying a ks16s, as it seemed a reasonable first wheel with decent power, and a used one woukd’ve been fairly cheap. But im scared of buying this kind of equipment used and get bad surprises.. after that I looked at a brand new 16s and they are 1800 CA$. Now I could get a new 16x for 700$ more and thats a small price to pay to avoid regretting the 16s after a few weeks of riding.

I’m a speed demon (used to ride my motorcycle > 260 km/h) and i feel like i will be limited by the 16s. Maybe Im wrong.. what are your thought?

Didn’t think this decision would be so tough.

 

If you say you like speed, get gotway

MSX is super reliable and you're gonna want the performance

KS wheels are really just for commuters, and the 16X has tons of issues still (especially above 25mph, you'd get speed wobbles)

I say Nikola+ or MSX

[Phong Vu]

Well, I'm doing my long term research to my next level wheel (for next summer).

Run the around the forum, I see Gotway is mostly out vote other wheels whenever comparison come up.

But is it just me or anyone also think that they cannot trust Gotway just by looking at the inside of the wheel?

The internal module design and arrangement, cables management, mainboard position, mounting, etc... all of them looks like a prototype product, not the actual in market one.
From the inside, even the cheaper wheel from Inmotion (V8), KingSong (16s) show the better looks and feels than the top end Monster/MSX from Gotway.

That lead to my thinking: if they don't really think about refine the wheel before go to market, how much they were thinking about all the safety, reliability, maintenance of the wheel after user pay for it?

My thinking might affected by phone/laptop (or any high-tech) products, where everything looks awesome from the outside.

But from the inside, the high-end phone/laptop always show the refinement of module arrangement and design, while the cheap one always like an afterthought, everything just glued together, as long as it works.

[RockyTop]

1 hour ago, Phong Vu said:

Well, I'm doing my long term research to my next level wheel (for next summer).

Run the around the forum, I see Gotway is mostly out vote other wheels whenever comparison come up.

But is it just me or anyone also think that they cannot trust Gotway just by looking at the inside of the wheel?

The internal module design and arrangement, cables management, mainboard position, mounting, etc... all of them looks like a prototype product, not the actual in market one.
From the inside, even the cheaper wheel from Inmotion (V8), KingSong (16s) show the better looks and feels than the top end Monster/MSX from Gotway.

That lead to my thinking: if they don't really think about refine the wheel before go to market, how much they were thinking about all the safety, reliability, maintenance of the wheel after user pay for it?

My thinking might affected by phone/laptop (or any high-tech) products, where everything looks awesome from the outside.

But from the inside, the high-end phone/laptop always show the refinement of module arrangement and design, while the cheap one always like an afterthought, everything just glued together, as long as it works.

I see your point and I wish Gotway was cleaner. The way I look at it is that they are more into over sizing and testing than engineering the  least expensive components necessary to get the job done. 

I was sure that the case on my MSX would fail as many times as I have crashed it yet it is my wife’s gently used 18XL that has the damage now I have to through bolt the side panels on. 

That said I am a Kingsong fan boy, I just like Gotway better for myself. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by RockyTop

[AtlasP]

Just casting some personal votes:

-I vote in favor of a cheap beater/learner wheel if you can find one under a couple hundred bucks. If not then this is a bit trickier decision.

-If you want to regularly push speeds approaching 30 mph or more (whether sooner or later/just maybe eventually), unfortunately Gotway (with all their quirks and questionable assembly) are your only option (or possibly the KS18XL, although that's been having firmware issues the past year after being solid up to that point, but I definitely wouldn't trust a KS16X yet). If not and someone thinks they'll be happy with low 20s mph, either the V10F or KS16S are great slower wheels with better build quality than Gotway (particularly the KS matte cases & trolley handles and the V10F internals, software, & especially ride quality).

Edited October 16, 2019 by AtlasP

[mrelwood]

 

5 hours ago, Phong Vu said:

But is it just me or anyone also think that they cannot trust Gotway just by looking at the inside of the wheel?

I completely agree on the prototype-style assembly. I rode the 16S a lot for a year, and the MSX since for 15 months now. While the 16S is clearly much more thought out package, during the 9000km it received I've had to replace a snapped pedal hanger bolt and dead cells on both battery packs, as well as fix four cracks on the outer shell. During the 8000km's on the MSX I've had zero maintenance related to wheel reliability, although two screw posts have cracked off from the shell as well. I've of course modded the MSX quite a bit, and replaced the main board, hall sensors and all motor wiring, but all those were solely because I tried to make it carry my 210lbs down and up a 300 ft hill so steep no EUC should ever face for longer than 20 ft or so.

Added with the plethora of issues we've seen during the 18L and 16X launches, the tractor-like robustness of especially the MSX may be a better approach for building EUCs after all. A Nikola with the 2nd gen mainboard seems to be achieving a similiar reputation.

[PY ⠀]

@mrelwood Thanks man for your input. I wasnt aware the ks16x had issues, Ill do more research.

Purely in terms of ride quality, is the msx on par with the Nikola?

Would it make sense if I got an MSX as a second hand “practice” wheel which I could keep for a long time?

Edited October 16, 2019 by PY ⠀

[Chili D]

On 10/10/2019 at 8:31 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

. Also, because it's your first wheel, remember you're going to crash it a lot. It just seems a shame to spend $2000 on something and then turn it into $1000 by just going through the standard learning process. Wouldn't it be better just getting any 2nd hand model you can find and then get all those early crashes out the way on that? You'd probably find you know exactly what you want after you've had more time on one.

 

1. crash meaning and body falls to the ground and you have to get up or,

2. losing balance and having to step or run off the wheel and the wheel itself falls to the ground?

i didn’t fall to the ground once during my learning experience, but I did step off the wheel many times and grabbed hold of the wheel most of the time.  It did scrape the ground and get a little beat up. 

if you’re learning experience consisted of going up curbs, bike tracks with moguls, bumps and jumps, then yeah... you’re going to fall. I did all that stuff with my second wheel. 

KS16x here with none of the teething issues 

chili

Edited October 16, 2019 by Chili D

[Alex Gruzglin]

51 minutes ago, Chili D said:

2. losing balance and having to step or run off the wheel and the wheel itself falls to the ground?

This is inevitable when learning, and while this does not damage the wheel internal components, I'd hate to see my $2000+ wheel get scratched up...

[mrelwood]

 

5 hours ago, PY ⠀ said:

Purely in terms of ride quality, is the msx on par with the Nikola?

I have only tried the Nikola twice for a very short time, and only up to about 20mph. The programming felt exactly like the MSX, but the pedals and the shape of the shell against my leg were much nicer than on the MSX. Although, I have seen MSXs being offered with Nikola pedals and the sensible Nikola dihedral angle. Perhaps the revised version has those by default, which does make it a much more appealing in my book.

5 hours ago, PY ⠀ said:

Would it make sense if I got an MSX as a second hand “practice” wheel which I could keep for a long time?

MSX seems to be the most trustworthy EUC ever made, so it might be the safest 2nd hand purchase as well in that sense. But if you get the first version, you might want to prepare yourself to do a bit of filing to get the pedal angle down to a reasonable range. The black sidepads might work as is, but the original grey ones were single use only...

The MSX is big, heavy, and a beast of a machine, so the learning phase might be a bit different than with smaller wheels. But that shouldn’t be much of an issue for an adult. Once you get the hang of it, you will soon appreciate the MSX’s behaviour and power.

[PY ⠀]

11 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The MSX is big, heavy

The 18” size is kinda making me hesitate. Im going to use it for commuting and not sure how much of a pain it’ll be compared to a 16”. Will need to test them all

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, PY ⠀ said:

The 18” size is kinda making me hesitate. Im going to use it for commuting and not sure how much of a pain it’ll be compared to a 16”. Will need to test them all

While the physical size or even the weight of the MSX is not necessary bigger than the large 16” ones (V10, 16X, Nikola), the trolley handle at the back of the MSX is uncomfortable and unstable, requiring much more concentration not to let the wheel tilt and go crazy. Also the lack of a lift button doesn’t make it a very good contender for public transport.

[PY ⠀]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Also the lack of a lift button

Wait so what do you do when you do need to lift up a curb for just s second? Power off - power back on?

[mrelwood]

40 minutes ago, PY ⠀ said:

Wait so what do you do when you do need to lift up a curb for just s second? Power off - power back on?

Personally I ride up the curbs, but if that wouldn’t work, either roll the EUC over the obstacle, turn off for lifting, or lift it as is and try to balance the thing so that the tire doesn’t spin to max speed.

The MSX mainboard actually has the function and a connector for a kill switch, but the physical button just isn’t there. A few people have installed their own though.

Edited October 17, 2019 by mrelwood

[PY ⠀]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

. A few people have installed their own though.

Thanks for the tip, will do that if I end up with the MSX. Is turning power off-on a big hassle in this wheel?

[mrelwood]

26 minutes ago, PY ⠀ said:

Thanks for the tip, will do that if I end up with the MSX. Is turning power off-on a big hassle in this wheel?

Not at all. Press button for 1 sec = off, press button for 1 sec = on.

[stephen]

2 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Not at all. Press button for 1 sec = off, press button for 1 sec = on.

So that means before my 40 Mile ride i have to waste 1 second and then 1 second when i get back home