Riding techniques: Fight! (Split from Kingsong 16X: pedal dipping thread)

[Matthieu Thegrey]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Jeez that MCM brakes so fast. Sounds like you’re killing the wheels lol

They are all fine despite regular trainings  The Gt16 may have more than 17 000 km

Edited October 8, 2019 by Matthieu Thegrey

[Mono]

20 minutes ago, 3euc said:

Anyone who can't master the basics shouldn't be riding at the higher speeds, or getting wild and edgy.

I would be interested to be pointed to your basic skill videos then, like showing how to

• brake hard,
• go curbs up and down and over speed bumps,
• change foot positioning while riding,
• turn shoulders and hips while riding straight,
• ride tight 360 turns,
• ride on one leg,
• ride backwards,

to name a few.

[chrisjunlee]

23 hours ago, 3euc said:

I strive to make EUC riders better and safer, so the sport perpetuates. Otherwise, EUCs will fizzle out. Riders who want to do nothing but push the limits until they crash will I guess naturally thin the herd.

Point 8: Oh the irony. 

"My goal is to perpetuate EUCs to the masses! Wild riders have no value in this!"

 

Looks like the herd thinners are doing more towards that goal by a long shot. I guess keep it up? 👍

23 hours ago, 3euc said:

In the old days, that wasn't such a risk, because EUCs went 12-15 MPH. Different today, with them at 30-40 MPH. Now, pushing the limits is incredibly risky.

Point 9: Everyone has different risk models and different ways to mitigate those risks. Whether it's training, gear, protocol, etc. You are conceding to the fact that your style is not suitable for the higher speeds which our modern wheels are capable of. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is rather arrogant for you to insist your way is 'correct' when you don't have any experience actually nearing these limits. At least acknowledge that for humility points.

23 hours ago, 3euc said:

Proof that my Kung Fu is stronger is that I have been riding more than 15 times longer than you, but have had no major falls or injuries, no wrecked wheels. And I've never had a wheel cut out on me while riding, having ridden most models from all major makers. 

Point 10: I've been driving 15x longer than some NASCAR drivers, but have never had any crashes - does that make me a better driver than a professional NASCAR driver? Your argument is irrelevant towards proving your Kung Fu is stronger.

I'll ask again: show us your wheelog numbers. Have the courage to look at the cold hard data. 

23 hours ago, 3euc said:

In your short three months of riding, you have apparently experienced a host of issues, faulting your wheel.

Point 11: You're misunderstanding my intent, and understandably so. I'm not 'faulting' things - I am here to provide and document data. The pedal dipping clip is specifically meant to show what can happen at 25mph vs the advertised 31mph cruising speed. 

23 hours ago, 3euc said:

If you really think there is something wrong with yours, then send it in immediately for service, don't continue riding it.

Point 12: There is nothing wrong with my wheels. I actually make it a point that my wheels aren't defective in order for my data to be representative of the wheel model.

23 hours ago, 3euc said:

If you are following numbers on a third party app, trying to prove you can draw more power, it's another indicator that we're not on the same riding field at the moment.

Point 13: Yup, we're not at the same level at all. Nor do you have the technical inclination to appreciate that. Nothing wrong with that, but do understand you're talking to a Physicist turned software engineer for a data firm, so I am a quantitative data person.

@Sebalooks like we have another person thinks your app is the devil¯\_(ツ)_/¯

23 hours ago, 3euc said:

If you want to impress me, achieve top speed by having the lowest power draws, not the highest. You are doing the opposite of safe.

Request 1: Sure! But you first, show us your wheelogs. I will give you an e-cookie.

Edited October 9, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Darrell Wesh]

14 minutes ago, 3euc said:

 You may not even own an EUC! You could be the one trolling us!

Are there no videos of you because you're not shooting any or have you just chosen not to share any? Admittedly, it's a pain, so I understand if you haven't bothered.

I'm thankful for all the riders who take the time to shoot and edit for us, so I've tried to give something back with my own videos.

I do ride EUC’s! 

I am usually recording my friends on their different e-vehicles. They are not yet adept enough to keep up with me AND record me at the same time so I have no one to record me

[3euc]

1 minute ago, Mono said:

I would be interested to be pointed to your basic skill videos then, like showing how to

• brake hard,
• go curbs up and down and over speed bumps,
• change foot positioning while riding,
• turn shoulders and hips while riding straight,
• ride tight 360 turns,
• ride on one leg,
• ride backwards,

to name a few.

Are you interested in how-to videos or just wondering which of these things I do?

My YouTube channel link is in my signature, as are other links of mine. Existing videos have examples of some of these things. Let me know if you've got any videos of your own online.

Nothing further on your location, beyond Western Europe?

[Mono]

10 minutes ago, 3euc said:

Are you interested in how-to videos or just wondering which of these things I do?

I was just wondering to see such videos. I can't really say I would be particular interested though (judging from what I have seen so far) and I certainly won't go through your 100 videos to find the examples. Never mind, I had to do my trolling part as well.

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

That's a video of braking tests with different wheels that I made with friends ( MCM5, RW GT16, GW MSX). Need to lower center of mass to be effective enough.

Wow 😲.

That is a very well done video. Love how you also included the wheelog. 

I did not know you can crouch brake like that. That is something of value to me, now I can try and explore it. Thank you! Here is your cookie 🍪.

I don't understand a word you're saying, but if you're giving professional lessons, I'm buying your entire stock.

Edited October 9, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Declan acoustic-unicyclist]

Just gonna jump in and say that @3euc, merely being able to reach the top speed of the 18XL, doesn't mean you are utilizing its capabilities. With the firmware update 1.13, came massive increases to acceleration and braking. If you are not exerting able to utilize a majority of the power of the wheel (with a safe margin), then you just happen to putt putt your way up to top speed while staying locked upright. 

 

An upright posture is ideal for casual and upright riding. But tight turns and slaloms require changes to your stance more than you let on. Your center of gravity does not need to be perfectly over the middle of the wheel's axis, for the ride to be stable, enjoyable, and within the parameters of the wheel. 

 

I personally utilize custom sidepads to achieve greater acceleration by placing added force on the front of the wheel, which allows for a more upright posture, while accelerating. This is generally more preferred. However, in using full the acceleration of the wheel (without any beeps/tiltback) and while riding through long, sweeping turns, the C.O.G. isn't as rigid as you're making it out to be.

[Darrell Wesh]

6 minutes ago, Declan acoustic-unicyclist said:

Just gonna jump in and say 

It’s .... it’s...it’s hideous! 😱😨

Edited October 9, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Wow 😲.

That is a very well done video. Love how you also included the wheelog. 

I did not know you can crouch brake like that. That is something of value to me, now I can try and explore it. Thank you! Here is your cookie 🍪.

I don't understand a word you're saying, but if you're giving professional lessons, I'm buying your entire stock.

You do know that you can turn on CC and YouTube's auto-translate to English? Works pretty good 

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

You do know that you can turn on CC and YouTube's auto-translate to English? Works pretty good 

I didn’t have English as an option for some reason, only French. Did you use English for that specific video, or just mentioned as a generic tip?

[Mark Lee]

12 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I didn’t have English as an option for some reason, only French. Did you use English for that specific video, or just mentioned as a generic tip?

Just watched the braking video with English subtitles just fine here.

[Marty Backe]

17 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I didn’t have English as an option for some reason, only French. Did you use English for that specific video, or just mentioned as a generic tip?

When you first select auto-translate it'll show the native language. Then select the settings menu again for auto-translate and you'll get a long list of languages. I watched it with the English translation.

[3euc]

5 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I do ride EUC’s!

I am usually recording my friends on their different e-vehicles. They are not yet adept enough to keep up with me AND record me at the same time so I have no one to record me

Nice! I appreciate you sharing.

[3euc]

6 hours ago, Mono said:

I was just wondering to see such videos. I can't really say I would be particular interested though (judging from what I have seen so far) and I certainly won't go through your 100 videos to find the examples.

Here's a video of mine from about a year ago on a King Song 18L, with some hard braking, as you were asking about--I go from top speed to nearly a complete stop in a fairly short span at some of the stop signs, then accelerate right back to top speed. I haven't done videos to highlight only hard braking, but you'll find instances within the clip.

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by 3euc

[mrelwood]

6 minutes ago, 3euc said:

Here's a video of mine from about a year ago on a King Song 18L, with some hard braking

That’s just the thing. I, and I imagine most others as well call those ”medium brakings”.

[3euc]

2 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

That’s just the thing. I, and I imagine most others as well call those ”medium brakings”.

It's amazing how many talkers keep popping up, but without a single video of their own to show! Where are your cameras?

Regardless of how you or anyone else would describe my braking in that particular video, they were executed with ease and under full control, along with the subsequent acceleration. Not a wobble to be seen. No hunching over, either.

I am not out to prove to anyone how fast I can stop, I was just trying to fulfill someone's request here. If you are capable of these incredible hard stops, then show some video of it, otherwise it's just empty claims from a ghost.

[mrelwood]

1 minute ago, 3euc said:

It's amazing how many talkers keep popping up, but without a single video of their own to show! Where are your cameras?

I don’t own one, and the iPhone videos I’ve taken during the years are not able to provide anything useful to anyone.

1 minute ago, 3euc said:

Regardless of how you or anyone else would describe my braking in that particular video, they were executed with ease and under full control, along with the subsequent acceleration. Not a wobble to be seen. No hunching over, either.

I’m pretty sure no-one doubted that from you.

1 minute ago, 3euc said:

If you are capable of these incredible hard stops, then show some video of it, otherwise it's just empty claims from a ghost.

I know you feel attacked in this thread, and in my mind rightfully so. But I haven’t made any claims about my riding technique, how it is correct, righteous, textbook, or whatever. I’m in a high risk group, so when not off-roading I actually usually ride quite a bit like you, to minimize the risks.

[3euc]

5 hours ago, Declan acoustic-unicyclist said:

Just gonna jump in and say that @3euc, merely being able to reach the top speed of the 18XL, doesn't mean you are utilizing its capabilities. With the firmware update 1.13, came massive increases to acceleration and braking. If you are not exerting able to utilize a majority of the power of the wheel (with a safe margin), then you just happen to putt putt your way up to top speed while staying locked upright. 

An upright posture is ideal for casual and upright riding. But tight turns and slaloms require changes to your stance more than you let on. Your center of gravity does not need to be perfectly over the middle of the wheel's axis, for the ride to be stable, enjoyable, and within the parameters of the wheel. 

I personally utilize custom sidepads to achieve greater acceleration by placing added force on the front of the wheel, which allows for a more upright posture, while accelerating. This is generally more preferred. However, in using full the acceleration of the wheel (without any beeps/tiltback) and while riding through long, sweeping turns, the C.O.G. isn't as rigid as you're making it out to be.

I don't use custom pads to improve acceleration. I do just fine with a stock wheel. Looking at your interesting creation, I can't say I'm motivated to add pads anytime soon.

So, you're yet another phantom riding master without one single video to show? Have you not ever videoed anything once that you've shared?

I don't believe I've ever said that center of gravity has to be perfectly over the middle at every moment. Of course it's possible to have some reasonable variation, but still have a stable, enjoyable ride and remain within the parameters.

Here is a video of mine from about a year ago on a King Song 18L. Would you say I'm putt putting my way to top speed? I think I'm doing better than that. I'm rock steady, comfortable, zero wobble, with straight posture. And Melrose Avenue is not the smoothest street.

 

[Shad0z]

On 10/8/2019 at 7:58 AM, 3euc said:

I spoke my piece a long time ago. I wasn't really planning on anything beyond one post.

But I keep getting brought back in here to reply to others. If someone engages me, I will try to reply. Otherwise, a forum wouldn't work.

Regardless, I'm hopeful that something I said benefited someone somewhere.

(quoted your short post since i didnt want to make this post gigantic)

it's like you keep going with the put your weight forwards. but dont shift it forwards.

i completely understand your point that you shouldn't crouch. i also see what you are trying to say. but it just does not make sense. the differences you are talking about barely make any difference. and if they did make a big impact on using a lot of power from the wheel. you would be able to see it as amperage spikes. but from what i have observed, using your ankles in conjunction with your knees to push it to an acceleration makes less amperage spikes that simply going stick and putting all the weight forwards which is slower. but that usually makes the euc have to fight with all of your weight at once. while with the other approach you are tilting the pedals to achieve the same but without all your weight to catch. i get your point that doing powerfull ankle flicks while using the knees to almost push it down, that is bad. but that's not what i am doing. and from the video on the thread. it does not look like he is either.

[Mike Sacristan]

8 hours ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

That's a video of braking tests with different wheels that I made with friends ( MCM5, RW GT16, GW MSX). Need to lower center of mass to be effective enough.

 

 

What a great vid! Awesome job guys. 

[photorph]

Wow a lot of energy spent on riding technique.  From my perspective, know the limits of your wheel and be safe.  Asides from that I say ride however you want  

 

I got love for all riding styles, techniques, and riders.    

 

[3euc]

1 minute ago, photorph said:

Wow a lot of energy spent on riding technique.  From my perspective, know the limits of your wheel and be safe.  Asides from that I say ride however you want  

I got love for all riding styles, techniques, and riders.    

Same for me--I watch on YouTube a wide assortment of riders, because I enjoy seeing what everyone has done with their potential, from beginner to advanced. I'm surprised though by the disconnect between the forum and having any videos on YouTube. I see forum contributors with hundreds, even thousands of posts, but not a single video anywhere. I was expecting people here to have videos as a given. Instead, having any videos appears to be the exception.

I'm impressed by the variety of riding styles I discover. For instance, I learned recently there is apparently a whole segment of riders who value studying their performance statistics on an app and comparing results. Not something I plan to do, but interesting to know about.

And I agree--anything goes, as long as you can stay safe and know the limits of your wheel. Not just the limits of the wheel though, but a rider needs to know their own limits as well.

A man's got to know his limitations.

[Mono]

6 hours ago, 3euc said:

So, you're yet another phantom riding master without one single video to show? Have you not ever videoed anything once that you've shared?

What's this obsession about? I have shown you mine, now you show me yours? How old are you?

4 hours ago, 3euc said:

I was expecting people here to have videos as a given.

It seems you were wrong. That happens. Not everybody is keen to show off what a supreme and flawless rider they think they are. I don't find that surprising. There are quite likely many extremely skillful riders in and outside of this forum without any video online. Or they may have videos on their Facebook/Instagram/whatever account and you may never get to know about them.

I, for example, have shared only very few videos and have spent my time rather like this:

How to lean:

For showing off:

      00~    00~    00~    00~    00~    
        \     |      |     _|     _/     
        /\   /|     /|      /     /    
          \    \     /     /     /    
           \    \    \    |     /    
           O    O    O    O    O       

For playing it safe: 

              00~   00~   00~        
        00~    |     |    _|    00~
         |    /|    /|     |    _| 
        /|     /     /    //   __| 
         /_    \\    \    \    \   
           O    O    O    O    O   

or this:

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Mono

[ir_fuel]

11 hours ago, Mono said:

I would be interested to be pointed to your basic skill videos then, like showing how to

• brake hard,
• go curbs up and down and over speed bumps,
• change foot positioning while riding,
• turn shoulders and hips while riding straight,
• ride tight 360 turns,
• ride on one leg,
• ride backwards,

to name a few.

Sorry dude, we're dealing with a professional. These are only available behind a pay wall.

No coach serious about his game is going to train someone for free now is he?

 

I wonder what the definition of "professional" is in this case. If it means asking money to teach someone something, as in "it's a profession", yeah, then I understand it, but that doesn't mean anything TBH. Gyms are full of "professional" trainers like that. As far as I know there are no certifications to become a "professional" euc instructor, so ...

Also, for being a "pro", there are a lot of "amateurs" on this forum that have much more impressive euc footage to show off their skills. Riding down the pavement at those speeds isn't really something that takes great skill now, is it? Nor will it make anyone with "the wrong technique" contact you so you can teach them "the right technique".

It's been quite an interesting read so far I must say