Patton250 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: I feel lower psi is safer for me as it reduces the twitchy feeling. But I'm sure when you get used to it, it may become less twitchy. But i also feel the lower psi absorbs so much more, so when i'm going fast and i hit a bump, it isn't as bad at lower psi. But the best is bent knees of course. If you are 162, what are you running now? I'm at 24psi and i'm 145lbs on the Nik + I rode it for 10 miles at 30 psi and 10 miles at 20 PSI. At both tire pressures the wheel is extremely agile and fun but feels dangerous and unstable to me when I get up past 22 mph. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashebeest Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 lowered mine from 30 to 23psi, rides better and less wobbles, but now the tire is louder, which makes me think that this is out of it's "comfort-zone" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilvodka Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Interesting. Hard braking on my MSX I sometimes get wobbles, what could be the reason for this? I ride in soft mode. Sorry for off-topic, I’m going through all the 16X threads and thought I’d ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Topkek said: Interesting. Hard braking on my MSX I sometimes get wobbles, what could be the reason for this? Wobbles just do happen under some situations, and the reasons are or can be numerous. For me the best way to get the MSX hard braking wobbles under control is to carve a bit back and forth while braking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) On 8/27/2019 at 5:34 PM, Patton250 said: I rode it for 10 miles at 30 psi and 10 miles at 20 PSI. At both tire pressures the wheel is extremely agile and fun but feels dangerous and unstable to me when I get up past 22 mph. maybe you just need some more time to get used to it. a few days and 50 miles on the same setting should help, unless something is wrong with the wheel. Edited August 29, 2019 by eddiemoy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patton250 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, eddiemoy said: maybe you just need some more time to get used to it. a few days and 50 miles on the same setting should help, unless something is wrong with the wheel. I was thinking and hoping the exact same thing. I will definitely report back after 50 more miles. Thanks Eddie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashebeest Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Did my first big ride today(48,5miles) and I really start to love the stock tire, especially the gyro effect But I still get wobbles when braking hard from +25mph. My ride was a mix of street and offroad. Gonna get myself a cyt tire and see which one I like more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post eddiemoy Posted August 29, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Slashebeest said: Did my first big ride today(48,5miles) and I really start to love the stock tire, especially the gyro effect But I still get wobbles when braking hard from +25mph. My ride was a mix of street and offroad. Gonna get myself a cyt tire and see which one I like more. wobbles take a few days to get used to. I had crazy wobbles on the Nik+, you can also try playing with the tire pressure. But give it some time first. should go away when you get more used to the wheel. before you get used to it, try not to brake so hard. you can also try a different technique of braking like leaning to the side braking instead of dead on pulling straight back. Edited August 29, 2019 by eddiemoy 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post eddiemoy Posted August 31, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 31, 2019 For those who are struggling with the CX and CST tire. Get the CYT. Just got mine today and it is the best tire IMO. Rides just like the other KS wheels. Absolutely zero gyro. Lean and it will turn. No need to learn new technique. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patton250 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: For those who are struggling with the CX and CST tire. Get the CYT. Just got mine today and it is the best tire IMO. Rides just like the other KS wheels. Absolutely zero gyro. Lean and it will turn. No need to learn new technique. Very cool Eddie. I’ll have to look into it now. Thanks man!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) I’ll reply here as well. That Eddie’s H-5102 is the factory installed tire on the MSX and 18XL. Otherwise a nice tire, but the grip on wet unpaved surfaces is bad. The ”community tire” that @Hibiki Mr.H so kindly bought and will ship for some of us is H-5167. I’d expect it to grip much better when wet, and off road in general. Edited September 1, 2019 by mrelwood 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Bon Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 So i have just ordered the only off road tire i could find which i hoping will suit my purpose May have to trim the side knobs for better turning as the tire looks kinda flat across rather than rounded will update when installed and tested If anyone has any leads on other Off road tires for the 16X please share Cheers Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patton250 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, mrelwood said: I’ll reply here as well. That Eddie’s H-5102 is the factory installed tire on the MSX and 18XL. Otherwise a nice tire, but the grip on wet unpaved surfaces is bad. The ”community tire” that @Hibiki Mr.H so kindly bought and will ship for some of us is H-5167. I’d expect it to grip much better when wet, and off road in general. I googled H-5167. No where to be found online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, Patton250 said: I googled H-5167. No where to be found online. They don’t really go by that. Just look for CYT 16x3.0. It is usually in the picture. But like @mrelwood said, doesn’t matter what they have in the picture, they sent me a different tread pattern wheel than was in the picture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Patton250 said: I googled H-5167. No where to be found online. I hunted for the tire for my 16S for a long time, it is indeed very difficult to find. Many Ali auctions have (or had?) it in the photo, but everyone would’ve shipped a different pattern. Here’s how the H-5167 looks: From https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/12337-kingsong-16x-1554wh-2200w-163in-released-july-2019/?do=findComment&comment=259229 Edited September 1, 2019 by mrelwood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, mrelwood said: I hunted for the tire for my 16S for a long time, it is indeed very difficult to find. Many Ali auctions have (or had?) it in the photo, but everyone would’ve shipped a different pattern. Here’s how the H-5167 looks: From https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/12337-kingsong-16x-1554wh-2200w-163in-released-july-2019/?do=findComment&comment=259229 Looks like that is what they are putting on the 16X now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Bon Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Patton250 said: I googled H-5167. No where to be found online. Hi msg or search this guy on eBay He may be able to help with the CY tire u seek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicrobots Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) I have just over 400 miles on the wheel now, and yesterday I started to get really comfortable carving the old stock tire hard. I think I might leave it on there and maybe just get the CYT as a backup in case of failure. I'm really enjoying the feel of this wheel. Although since I'm a relatively new EUC rider, I might just be enjoying the almost telepathic connection you get to a wheel like this. Very intriguing that they're switching the OEM tire! Curious about the circumstances which led to what they shipped the first batches out with. Maybe they were thinking people were going to use it more off road, or they were catering to the niche Z10 loving community. Edited September 1, 2019 by magicrobots 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 18 hours ago, magicrobots said: I have just over 400 miles on the wheel now, and yesterday I started to get really comfortable carving the old stock tire hard. I think I might leave it on there and maybe just get the CYT as a backup in case of failure. I'm really enjoying the feel of this wheel. Although since I'm a relatively new EUC rider, I might just be enjoying the almost telepathic connection you get to a wheel like this. Very intriguing that they're switching the OEM tire! Curious about the circumstances which led to what they shipped the first batches out with. Maybe they were thinking people were going to use it more off road, or they were catering to the niche Z10 loving community. Yes... it's wonderful to carve on and it carves in a totally different way from my MSX. They move in different ways. They steer in different ways. People complained about vibrations from the pre-production model and Kingsong resolved it by changing to the CX tire. Then all hell broke loose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustesta Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 This is the tire everyone is looking for: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XCW8SCK?ref=myi_title_dp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishkin Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) I appreciate that there is clearly a view that some tires have a gyro effect and some don't. I'm not intending to change my tire unless I am bitterly unhappy with it, which I don't expect to be (when I receive my 16X), so I'm unlikely to even be able to make an informed comparison. For anyone that's removed their tire, and before they put on a new tire, have they compared the weights or the distribution of rubber? I can only assume from riders comments that the gyro effect either relates to weight of the tire at the circumference, or perhaps less likely the tread creating some air resistance effect. I am not trying to sound skeptical about what people are experiencing, I just wondered if any qualitative measures have been attempted between the tires when off (rather than just riding experience). I really wouldn't have assumed much difference in rubber distribution, and if there was, in some ways a tire with more weight at the circumference, while it might have a gyro effect, it might also have more material to wear out/absorb impacts?! Edited September 5, 2019 by Mishkin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted September 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Mishkin said: I can only assume from riders comments that the gyro effect either relates to weight of the tire at the circumference, or perhaps less likely the tread creating some air resistance effect. I'm pretty sure any possible weight differences between the tires can not be large enough to cause a significant difference in the gyroscopic effect. If they were, there should be a notable difference in acceleration and braking as well. The motor itself is already heavier than ten tires. The tire shape can affect the tire seemingly wanting to stay upright in two ways: shape of the core and style of the tread pattern. On the left, the core of the tire creates a similiar contact point than a wider tire does, so it will behave a bit like a wider tire. When tilting, the contact point moves further away from the center line, which causes the wheel to turn more and therefore correct the tilt more effectively. An extreme example would be a square shaped one, like a car tire. It's obvious that it would be very stable when going straight, in other words requiring more effort to tilt for a turn. Then there is the tire tread pattern. The CST C-1488 (and ChaoYang H-5167) have a solid ridge at the center, and only knobs at the sides with a lot of air in between. The knobs will compress easily, while the solid ridge does not. Therefore it has the behaviour of the pointier shape in the first picture, and will behave like a narrower tire. I do have trouble calling the phenomena as "gyroscopic effect" though, since if it actually were that, the difference should be noticeable when trying to tilt or twist an EUC while lifting it up and letting the tire spin. I bet no-one can tell which tire (s)he is trying to tilt or twist, since the actual gyroscopic effect is very closely the same. 3 hours ago, Mishkin said: it might also have more material to wear out/absorb impacts?! More material is not required to absorb impacts, quite the opposite: A soft and flexible rubber compound will absorb impacts better. A stiff one doesn't deform as easily, which means it passes more of the impact to the wheel and the rider, just like a higher air pressure in the tire would. There can be large differences in the wearability of the rubber compounds, and it doesn't seem to be related to the rubber hardness. For example, my soft ChaoYang tires have outlasted my harder ones, such as Kenda. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishkin Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Thanks, suggesting whether it was tire shape, and thus resistance to tilting, rather than "gyro" was also what I was wondering. That's exactly why I was trying to see if anyone had established measurable differences in the tires. The only thing that might not align with tire shape being a factor (perhaps of course there many factors combining) is that several comments in other threads seem to indicate the gyro only takes effect at speed, which is more what you might expect from a true gyroscopic effect. The 16X release is the first release I have watched closely on these forums, but I have the impression that dissatisfaction with the tire is an issue predominately with the 16X, compared to past releases of other wheels, and it seems strange it's such a polarising factor suddenly - unless indeed this issue is raised with every new wheel and I don't have enough history to have seen these discussions before. Again not trying to be skeptical, just trying to understand an inform myself about these possible factors. Cheers! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Quote comments in other threads seem to indicate the gyro only takes effect at speed, which is more what you might expect from a true gyroscopic effect. Sure, but it doesn’t mean that there is a notable true gyroscopic effect taking place. I’m struggling to find the wordings in English, but I’ll try to simplify: The wheel turn radius is derived from the amount of tilt. Speed makes no notable difference. X amount of tilt equals X*n turn radius, at all speeds. At higher speeds just a minor tilt turns the riding direction enough to correct the wheel falling to the side. This would happen even with a tire and motor that weigh nothing. That is why the wheel will stay upright better at speed. The Z10 for example, it starts staying upright very strongly already at 10km/h. I’m certain that the actual gyroscopic effect is extremely minor at those speeds. Also, if anything, replacing my MSX tire to a much heavier motorcycle tire decreased the tendency to stay upright. Actual gyroscopic effect can only increase because the spinning weight increased. Phew... I hope I was able to make at least some sense to somebody. Quote I have the impression that dissatisfaction with the tire is an issue predominately with the 16X, compared to past releases of other wheels You are absolutely correct! I think there might also be a shift in how closely we watch new wheels being launched overall. I don’t remember seeing both a prototype and a different pre-production demo circulating in the US before. And a few test rides documented at the factory as well. Perhaps this shift has made more people focus on the wheel details. Also, this might have been the first time that the two perhaps most dominant EUC manufacturers launch such clear competitors almost at the same time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunner Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 @eddiemoy how are you getting along with the CYT, and are all your cameras broken? Waiting for videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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