KS18L and MSuper X

[chunglam]

Got my KS18L yesterday and MSuper X last week, first time Gotway and Kingsong wheel owner and my previous wheels are Ninebot A1 and InMotion V8, a few observations -

KS18L is more comfortable to ride, may due to higher position of padding

Both Gotway and Kingsong Apps are not working, either crash on my 3 Android phones or can't connect to wheel

Wheellog can connect to MSuper X 

The auto motor shutoff of KS18L is not working as robust as InMotion, it turned-on twice on my first up stair walking

I like the trolley handle of KS18L, it takes more effort to maintain balance on MSuper X trolley handle

Overall, they both are great wheel, more stable, stronger motor and longer range then my A1 and V8

Edit 6/13 -

Both Apps can connect to wheel now.  The trick is if your Bluetooth is always on, you may need to turn off then turn on to make the app find your wheel.

Specification compare table - 

Edited June 13, 2018 by chunglam

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

  Congrats on getting two of the most anticipated wheels of 2018!

Are you going to post up a video comparison review?  Did you try this apk:

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=11932

Edited June 6, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[chunglam]

Thanks, I feel lucky I start playing with euc just one and half year ago and we have so many great wheels to choose from now and with the help from pioneers like you in this community the euc from all manufacturers are quite mature in turn of performance and functionality, hopefully they also learn from the past safety issues and no more new injury by bad design and bad firmware.

Bad weather this week in HK, hope to shoot a good video log next week with my mavic pro.

Will try this Gotway apk, thanks 

[eddiemoy]

7 hours ago, chunglam said:

Got my KS18L yesterday and MSuper X last week, first time Gotway and Kingsong wheel owner and my previous wheels are Ninebot A1 and InMotion V8, a few observations -

KS18L is more comfortable to ride, may due to higher position of padding

Both Gotway and Kingsong Apps are not working, either crash on my 3 Android phones or can't connect to wheel

Wheellog can connect to MSuper X 

The auto motor shutoff of KS18L is not working as robust as InMotion, it turned-on twice on my first up stair walking

I like the trolley handle of KS18L, it takes more effort to maintain balance on MSuper X trolley handle

Overall, they both are great wheel, more stable, stronger motor and longer range then my A1 and V8

 

Which one do you prefer?  And why?  Is the 18S more nimble?  Which one feels faster?  Braking feel, which one is better?  

[chunglam]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

Which one do you prefer?  And why?  Is the 18S more nimble?  Which one feels faster?  Braking feel, which one is better?  

They are for different situation, MSuper X for off road/Long trip and 18L for urban street/short trip. 18L is more comfortable to ride because of the higher padding position(I am 180cm) and slightly narrower. Since they both have nominal 2000w motor, speed wise they should be similar(both wheels still in locked mode, I only owned them for a couple days and I can't make apps for both wheels work). Overall, I feel 18L is more easier to control.

[Mrd777]

5 minutes ago, chunglam said:

both wheels still in locked mode,

I didn’t think Gotway had this feature in their software.

[chunglam]

Higher padding position of KS18

Thinner body of KS18L

[Xoltri]

I am really curious how the braking / accleration feels between the two wheels as well. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Xoltri

[EZhel]

Very curious about comparison of those wheels.

Sadly Z10 isn't up to the game, and Inmo V10F is a bit less preferable to 18L, so these two are the most anticipated models of this year. I've ordered an MSuperX, need to wait till the end of June, so please post moar.

[esaj]

On 6/6/2018 at 3:10 PM, chunglam said:

Since they both have nominal 2000w motor, speed wise they should be similar

AFAIK, the motor windings affect the actual tradeoff between speed and torque (if talking about same power and voltage), although is KS18L 84V or 67V system?

It's possible to make a really high-speed, but low torque motor, or really low speed but very high torque motor. Of course the EUCs stand somewhere in the "middle", but for example KS16B vs. KS16S went from 800W -> 1200W nominal motors (50% more power), but the maximum tiltback speed was increased only from 30km/h to 35km/h (and some say the newer firmware of S drops that to 33km/h), so less than 20%. Of course the power required for higher speed doesn't increase linearly, but at least subjectively (owning both the B and S), I'd say the S has (not surprisingly) higher torque when accelerating fast or going uphill, so I'd suspect the motor torque has been increased more than speed.

(source: http://web.mit.edu/first/scooter/motormath.pdf )

Edited June 7, 2018 by esaj

[Kens]

On 6/5/2018 at 7:44 PM, chunglam said:

Got my KS18L yesterday and MSuper X last week, first time Gotway and Kingsong wheel owner and my previous wheels are Ninebot A1 and InMotion V8, a few observations -

KS18L is more comfortable to ride, may due to higher position of padding

Both Gotway and Kingsong Apps are not working, either crash on my 3 Android phones or can't connect to wheel

Wheellog can connect to MSuper X 

The auto motor shutoff of KS18L is not working as robust as InMotion, it turned-on twice on my first up stair walking

I like the trolley handle of KS18L, it takes more effort to maintain balance on MSuper X trolley handle

Overall, they both are great wheel, more stable, stronger motor and longer range then my A1 and V8

 

I knew those auto shutoff mechanism on KS18L will be shoddy ?

It does makes senses though for it to not work well on stairs because of bouncing motion but that's the main uses right?

If you can get the app working, is there any way to turn this feature off? 

[EZhel]

On 6/6/2018 at 5:44 AM, chunglam said:

Both Gotway and Kingsong Apps are not working, either crash on my 3 Android phones or can't connect to wheel

Do Android apps have rights to use geolocation, btw?

[ir_fuel]

1 hour ago, EZhel said:

Do Android apps have rights to use geolocation, btw?

Sure.

[RockyTop]

both wheels in lock mode

On 6/6/2018 at 8:16 AM, Mrd777 said:

I didn’t think Gotway had this feature in their software.

The new GotWay wheels come with the tilt set to 12mph. You have to have an app to change it or turn it off. It is not really locked.  The KingSong lock can be removed easily with the DarknessBot. All you have to do is connect and change the speed.  A widow pops up saying that they can't be held responsible. Click OK.   

[chunglam]

More observations -

The KS18L has annoying high pitched noise from motor,  quite notable especially in a quiet environment

The MSuper X has the out of factory tire pressure in high range. With 3"x19" tire I expect it should provide shock assorting with proper tire pressure, should I release some air to make it more comfortable riding on bumpy road? On the other hand, I feel KS18L just has right tire pressure even its tire is 2.5"x18" and I feel more stable on the same bumpy road.  

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, chunglam said:

should I release some air to make it more comfortable riding on bumpy road?

I would start by measuring both pressures. If you don’t yet have a tool for measuring, I’d get one for $10. It is very useful with EUCs. The pressure range that can be used is quite large, and up to user preference. 19”x3” might gain from a slightly lower pressure than the 18”x2.5”, you just have to try which is the best for you.

”The KS18L has annoying high pitched noise from motor”

Can you compare if it’s as loud as in the 16S?

Edited June 8, 2018 by mrelwood

[Electroman]

KS18L vs Msuper x, please provide as much comparable info as you possibly can my friend, certainly myself and many moire on here now able to get both is now in the position to choose one over the other.

 

Even if top speeds not available yet the torque, acceleration is still interesting and so many more aspects not even related to power. I must admit I have my own concerns in regard to choosing a load cell like they have done but would be real happy to be proven wrong and put to shame for ever doubting it, to me seams so given to pick a switch and simple but I am probably missing something and not exactly a EUC designer so..?

[chunglam]

KS18L vs MSuper X

Let's compare on paper first

For actual riding, I am safety first guy and never ride over 25km/hour so they both more or less are same feeling to me in terms of speed, acceleration and braking  

[Electroman]

Is that not wrong voltage for x?

[chunglam]

3 minutes ago, Electroman said:

Is that not wrong voltage for x?

Wheellog show around 67v 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I think that's the app which is reporting the wrong voltage as Gotway wheels don't seem to transmit the correct voltages through the BT interface.  I think there's a way you can set it to 84V manually in the app, or was it in a different app?  Not sure.  On the charger it should state the correct output voltage though.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[mrelwood]

I’d add shell width to the above chart: 18L = 18cm, MSX = 23cm. Approximately.

[Electroman]

20 minutes ago, chunglam said:

Wheellog show around 67v 

Hunka probably right, 20+4.2v=84v (20s6p)

I suppose one could extract 72v out of 3.6/individual cell

[chunglam]

23 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I’d add shell width to the above chart: 18L = 18cm, MSX = 23cm. Approximately.

They don't have 5cm difference from my measure, that's why I didn't put it in my table. Last time I checked they only have 1-2cm difference. KS18L definitely is more than 18cm, I think more than 20cm( widest central part, I can't accurately measure it due to its round shape).

Edited June 9, 2018 by chunglam

[Lutalo]

On 6/5/2018 at 10:44 PM, chunglam said:

Got my KS18L yesterday and MSuper X last week, first time Gotway and Kingsong wheel owner and my previous wheels are Ninebot A1 and InMotion V8, a few observations -

KS18L is more comfortable to ride, may due to higher position of padding

Both Gotway and Kingsong Apps are not working, either crash on my 3 Android phones or can't connect to wheel

Wheellog can connect to MSuper X 

The auto motor shutoff of KS18L is not working as robust as InMotion, it turned-on twice on my first up stair walking

I like the trolley handle of KS18L, it takes more effort to maintain balance on MSuper X trolley handle

Overall, they both are great wheel, more stable, stronger motor and longer range then my A1 and V8

 

Congratulations man. Good to hear that these things are finally being shipped out. You are now the proud owner of the two coolest EUCs on the market; the 18L being the absolute coolest of course ?. I am looking forward to riding the 18L that my son pre-ordered. I have heard rumors and have seen some discussion on this forum forecasting a 2060wh version of the 18L (18X). Unless my son's 18L sparks within me a need for immediate EUC gratification, I suspect that I will hold for out for the 2060wh version. That is of course provided that the release of the distance version is relatively close to the 18L's release.