Lutalo Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 On 6/5/2018 at 10:44 PM, chunglam said: Got my KS18L yesterday and MSuper X last week, first time Gotway and Kingsong wheel owner and my previous wheels are Ninebot A1 and InMotion V8, a few observations - KS18L is more comfortable to ride, may due to higher position of padding Both Gotway and Kingsong Apps are not working, either crash on my 3 Android phones or can't connect to wheel Wheellog can connect to MSuper X The auto motor shutoff of KS18L is not working as robust as InMotion, it turned-on twice on my first up stair walking I like the trolley handle of KS18L, it takes more effort to maintain balance on MSuper X trolley handle Overall, they both are great wheel, more stable, stronger motor and longer range then my A1 and V8 Couldn't it be dangerous if the auto shutoff was overly sensitive? I mean, we wouldn't want the wheel to interpret every instance of the wheel leaving the ground briefly, like traveling over a larger obstacle as a reason to cut off. It seems like that would yield disastrous results for the rider. Could it be that the shutoff sensors are treating stairs like it might a bump or pothole in the road? It seems to me that they would set the shutoff sensor for a minimum safe threshold related to time off of the ground. In this case, trolleying the KS up stairs might not qualify as a cutoff situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) msuper X is 84V. You only need to look at the charger, it's going to say 84V. Also it makes no sense to say 84V for the charger voltage for the 84V 18L, and 72V charger voltage ("nominal", which is just 84V) for the 84V msX at the same time. Gotway 84V wheels report the wrong voltage (pretend to be 67.2V, so multiplying the true voltage by 4/5 in firmware) so GW wouldn't have to adapt their oooooooooooold app (outsourced, so changes are more involved) from the 67.2V-only days (apparently it works just with the voltage to get the battery % and can not distinguish which wheel is connected). The updated Wheellog version from the forum here has a toggle for "84V GW wheel" that shows the true number from the false voltage info. Edited June 9, 2018 by meepmeepmayer 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Lutalo said: Couldn't it be dangerous if the auto shutoff was overly sensitive? I mean, we wouldn't want the wheel to interpret every instance of the wheel leaving the ground briefly, like traveling over a larger obstacle as a reason to cut off. It seems like that would yield disastrous results for the rider. Could it be that the shutoff sensors are treating stairs like it might a bump or pothole in the road? It seems to me that they would set the shutoff sensor for a minimum safe threshold related to time off of the ground. In this case, trolleying the KS up stairs might not qualify as a cutoff situation. I guess what he means was that the sensor was not stopping the wheel when he tried to carry it up stairs! The sensor under the handle is relying on pressure/electric resistance when you grap the handle...and it will ONLY work if the wheel is not moving or near standstill.... So there is no chance that it will shut off the wheel when driving. Also there will be an option in the app where you can turn it off completely Edited June 9, 2018 by US69 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunglam Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 47 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: msuper X is 84V. You only need to look at the charger, it's going to say 84V. Also it makes no sense to say 84V for the charger voltage for the 84V 18L, and 72V charger voltage ("nominal", which is just 84V) for the 84V msX at the same time. Gotway 84V wheels report the wrong voltage (pretend to be 67.2V, so multiplying the true voltage by 4/5 in firmware) so GW wouldn't have to adapt their oooooooooooold app (outsourced, so changes are more involved) from the 67.2V-only days (apparently it works just with the voltage to get the battery % and can not distinguish which wheel is connected). The updated Wheellog version from the forum here has a toggle for "84V GW wheel" that shows the true number from the false voltage info. Sorry, my mistake. I copied those numbers from their Chinese spec. The actual charger spec is 84v 1.5a, you can see from the photo. Regarding nominal voltage, my understanding is charging voltage can be different to nominal/regular voltage, the cell need 4.2v to charge but nominal/regular output voltage should be 3.7v or less depending on load and how much capacity left 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chunglam Posted June 9, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2018 Remeasure shell width (without pedals)- KS18L 17cm MSuper X 18cm 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 hours ago, US69 said: I guess what he means was that the sensor was not stopping the wheel when he tried to carry it up stairs! The sensor under the handle is relying on pressure/electric resistance when you grap the handle...and it will ONLY work if the wheel is not moving or near standstill.... So there is no chance that it will shut off the wheel when driving. Also there will be an option in the app where you can turn it off completely Thanks for the info. It is good to know that the wheel will never cut off due to the sensor. I am glad it there for those that need it, but I would most likely shut it off in the app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunglam Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, Lutalo said: Thanks for the info. It is good to know that the wheel will never cut off due to the sensor. I am glad it there for those that need it, but I would most likely shut it off in the app. I guess the ks18l handle has some kind of weight sensor to trigger motor on/off. I once pulled out the handle a little bit quick and strong and also triggered motor turning off. In the case of carrying it up stairs, the up-down movement in your handle may also trigger the sensor. I think their app sould have options to adjust the sensitvity of the sensor, too bad I can't made their app work on my 3 Android phones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunglam Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 The lower padding and wider body of MSuper X really hurt my legs, same experience when I transition from Ninebot A1 to wider Inmotion V8. Higher padding and slightly thinner body of KS18L really make it more comfortable. Regarding aceleration/braking, I feel MSX is more responsive than KS18L, does it mean the so call 'hard' vs 'soft' logic in firmware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Maybe try something like these: https://m.ebay.com/itm/Calf-Brace-4-Protectors-In-1-Bundle-Neoprene-Support-Soft-Wrap-Sleeve/372015230297 I have a pair that I use with my Tesla, and they make a world of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorenW Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 7 hours ago, chunglam said: KS18L vs MSuper X Let's compare on paper first For actual riding, I am safety first guy and never ride over 25km/hour so they both more or less are same feeling to me in terms of speed, acceleration and braking I am fairly certain that the pedal height is meant to be in millimeters rather than centimeters here. ? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunglam Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 Right, let's update the table I removed the battery nominal voltage. I think they both used 20 cells in battery module Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donát Hajdu Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Thanks for the infos Chunglam! Can you make a test ride video of the wheels please? And a light test too(i want to know how bright is the msuper x in the dark) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, chunglam said: Sorry, my mistake. I copied those numbers from their Chinese spec. The actual charger spec is 84v 1.5a, you can see from the photo. Regarding nominal voltage, my understanding is charging voltage can be different to nominal/regular voltage, the cell need 4.2v to charge but nominal/regular output voltage should be 3.7v or less depending on load and how much capacity left Hey no problem! I just didn't want to people to have a reason to (wrongly) doubt the sweet, sweet msuper X due to confusing numbers Both wheels are the same: 84V (20s) which is the max voltage (4.2V per cell * 20 = 84V) and naturally the charger has to push that if it wants to charge the battery fully, so it must be an 84V charger. 3.6V/3.7V nominal (*20 makes the 72V or 74V numbers) is used to calculate the battery capacity with an "average" number of what voltage a cell will offer from full to empty (makes sense for battery capacity calculations), but for charging, max voltage counts so it makes sense to use that number to avoid confusion. The cells will then go down from full (4.2V) to empty (3.2V or so) when you ride (and 3.6/3.7V is a realistic average/nominal voltage). Anyways, you have TWO amazing wheels, congratulations and thanks for your info here! I'm totally not envious, not at all Edited June 9, 2018 by meepmeepmayer 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) On 6/9/2018 at 12:35 AM, chunglam said: I guess the ks18l handle has some kind of weight sensor to trigger motor on/off. I once pulled out the handle a little bit quick and strong and also triggered motor turning off. In the case of carrying it up stairs, the up-down movement in your handle may also trigger the sensor. I think their app sould have options to adjust the sensitvity of the sensor, too bad I can't made their app work on my 3 Android phones Adjusting the sensitivity of the sensor sounds like the ticket, or shutting it down completely. Shame that EUC Manufacturers cannot seem to get their acts together with these apps. Hope the app is a problem that is soon resolved. Edited June 10, 2018 by Lutalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunglam Posted June 11, 2018 Author Share Posted June 11, 2018 After watching the Monster seat review video by Dufisthenics and Cindy, I decided to order the seat for MSX and received last Friday. Tried a few times riding seated and I found it is far more difficult than I thought. But a good thing is the seat provided another support contact to my leg when getting on wheel so my leg is less painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 34 minutes ago, chunglam said: After watching the Monster seat review video by Dufisthenics and Cindy, I decided to order the seat for MSX and received last Friday. Tried a few times riding seated and I found it is far more difficult than I thought. But a good thing is the seat provided another support contact to my leg when getting on wheel so my leg is less painful. It will take some time to learn. It took me a while to learn to ride seated on the KS18S. Then you also need to learn to transition form standing to sitting and vice versa. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 34 minutes ago, chunglam said: After watching the Monster seat review video by Dufisthenics and Cindy, I decided to order the seat for MSX and received last Friday. Tried a few times riding seated and I found it is far more difficult than I thought. But a good thing is the seat provided another support contact to my leg when getting on wheel so my leg is less painful. Yeah, seated riding is a completely different skill set. It's good to be very careful when learning how to ride seated. It's easy when you're comfortable with standing to get careless when you transition to seated riding. I've had a couple of close calls with seated riding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunglam Posted June 11, 2018 Author Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) I found the reason I feel more comfortable riding KS18L may due to the a little bit round shape of its shell, the contact area of side-pads to my leg is bigger than MSX side-pads because of MSX more rectangle shape. Space efficiency wise, MSX win and can pack more batteries into approximate same shell space capacity. Edited June 11, 2018 by chunglam Added photo 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 2 hours ago, chunglam said: I found the reason I feel more comfortable riding KS18L may due to the a little bit round shape of its shell, the contact area of side-pads to my leg is bigger than MSX side-pads because of MSX more rectangle shape. Space efficiency wise, MSX win and can pack more batteries into approximate same shell space capacity. If the MsuperX is a thing like the Msuper v3s, then it is top heavy and not that great imo. The 18L on the other hand is fantastic! I just got to ride the first production version of it yesterday. I put up a video on it. Thomas brought it to the ninebot demo ride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunglam Posted June 11, 2018 Author Share Posted June 11, 2018 I found the trick to make Kongsong app connect to KS18L, I need to turn off and then turn on the Bluetooth of my phone before running Kingsong app. Since I always use Bluetooth headphone, that made the app can't find the wheel in my last few attempts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Those angular highlights really make the 18L's design. Neat! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoltri Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Is there any information about how waterproof these two wheels will be? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electroman Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 11 hours ago, eddiemoy said: If the MsuperX is a thing like the Msuper v3s, then it is top heavy and not that great imo. The 18L on the other hand is fantastic! I just got to ride the first production version of it yesterday. I put up a video on it. Thomas brought it to the ninebot demo ride. Any others thinking that the MS is top heavy and therefore not that great cause of that, if so please could you specify exactly what those negative side effects are and put some details into it that I can try to wrap my mind around and relate to somehow or at least try to understand those negative effects and how the King Sock gets around them? Choosing between a couple of wheels now and while MSX is one of them so is the KS18L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 36 minutes ago, Electroman said: Any others thinking that the MS is top heavy and therefore not that great cause of that, if so please could you specify exactly what those negative side effects are and put some details into it that I can try to wrap my mind around and relate to somehow or at least try to understand those negative effects and how the King Sock gets around them? Choosing between a couple of wheels now and while MSX is one of them so is the KS18L. The center of gravity of the MSuper X probably feels higher because of the higher pedals. I don't see this as bad. To me the MSuper X feels more agile than the MSuper V3 because of the higher pedals. I look forward to my extended testing of the 18L so I can state how it handles compared to the MSuper line of wheels. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunglam Posted June 11, 2018 Author Share Posted June 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Xoltri said: Is there any information about how waterproof these two wheels will be? They both have IPX5 spec, protect your wheel from water jets at any direction Let's update the table - 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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