Jump to content
Ben Pearson

Legalising EUCs in the UK, the next steps

Recommended Posts

Actually you could edit that to say that it is legal to ride in all of the states in the United States. There are some jurisdictions that restrict it, but I believe that just about every state has laws specifically allowing low-speed electric vehicles (known as EPAMDs or PMDs) or they have no laws prohibiting them. See the Segway links to laws at http://www.segway.com/support/regulatory-information . Not sure about laws in Canada ( @Hunka Hunka Burning Love probably knows) or Australia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks Fantastic. Maybe play up a couple more aspects of how EUC travel can help London. Space saving. If the idea is to remove the cars in London. Imagine if a car only took up as much space as a human. A decrease in 2% of the cars would see economic benefits for delivery vehicles and civil service vehicles, twice that percentage.

The EUC is low impact low stress core exercise which is the most efficient exercise for health benefits. Better than a bike, because no showering is required after reaching your destination. Easier to carry onto public transport than a bike. The wheels are as big as bike wheels, so they could easily be classified by tire size and speed limits. It will remove the amount of parking spaces needed in the city since errands can easily be accomlished on the EUC. 

Also if you care about energy, the EUC cost is under 1 pence per mile. That makes it competitive with the Carbohydrate cost of walking or taking a horse.

Great job so far, and keep us updated. We will continue to play up the transportation usefulness of EUCs to supplement your efforts. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

Also if you care about energy, the EUC cost is under 1 pence per mile. That makes it competitive with the Carbohydrate cost of walking or taking a horse. 

I'm astounded anyone else in here has considered this. I was thinking about it the other day. Round trip commute to work for me is 2.5c of electricity. Cycling requires just over 400 calories or about 1.5 chocolate bars at a cost of about $1.50. Of course there are cheaper foods to fuel your muscles but I concluded that riding an EUC is way less expensive than riding the bike (until you fall). The carbon footprint of those chocolate bars probably exceed that of 240Wh of energy from a mass generation plant too. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Consider purchase cost.  If you spend $1500 on an EUC which you ride 3000 miles that's $0.50/mile not counting anything else (electricity, chargers, trolleys, safety gear, padding, ...)

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ben Pearson said:
Any and all feedback welcomed, even grammatical errors.

Looks good,

little typo: a Bompton can be stored with the luggage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, duaner said:

Consider purchase cost.  If you spend $1500 on an EUC which you ride 3000 miles that's $0.50/mile not counting anything else (electricity, chargers, trolleys, safety gear, padding, ...)

A decent pair of walking shoes maybe last 500 miles before you replace them so if you pay $100 that's $0.20/mile not counting anything else (socks, additional food, tickets for jaywalking, ... :D )

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dmethvin said:

Actually you could edit that to say that it is legal to ride in all of the states in the United States. There are some jurisdictions that restrict it, but I believe that just about every state has laws specifically allowing low-speed electric vehicles (known as EPAMDs or PMDs) or they have no laws prohibiting them. See the Segway links to laws at http://www.segway.com/support/regulatory-information . Not sure about laws in Canada ( @Hunka Hunka Burning Love probably knows) or Australia.

I'm certainly no legal expert in the area, but from what I've read online provinces in Canada like Alberta, BC, and Ontario electric motorized vehicles like hoverboards, Segway, and our beloved EUCs are not technically allowed on sidewalks, roadways and pathways.  E-bikes that can be pedal powered seem to be an exception.  Most law enforcement in Canada hasn't been cracking down on lawbreakers as long as the offenders are not causing harm to others.  There are companies still offering Segway tours, but I do not know how they skirt the law.  Maybe they have a special permit.

I always compare it to street hockey.  It's not allowed on the road by law, but kids still do it.  Are the police going to arrest kids and parents playing in the street?  Most likely not, but they could give fines if they wanted to just like in Vancouver where @musk and an electric skateboarder got a $600 ticket.  Everyone might be wanting to go green, save the planet, reduce our carbon footprint, but the laws don't seem to support the movement from what I see in Canada at least.

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, duaner said:

Consider purchase cost.  If you spend $1500 on an EUC which you ride 3000 miles that's $0.50/mile not counting anything else (electricity, chargers, trolleys, safety gear, padding, ...)

Bikes aren't free though. My Brompton cost nearly $3k and is the only folding bike that comes close to being as small as an EUC. Admittedly you can get the base model for $1.2k but the cost is comparable if you try to be like for like. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dmethvin said:

A decent pair of walking shoes maybe last 500 miles before you replace them so if you pay $100 that's $0.20/mile not counting anything

I am really only speaking to Operating costs since all EUCs are differently priced as well. Good point though. You can enter into the transportation game for less of an entry cost, but maybe more more of a maintenace cost in carbs and new shoes. It is a great comparison BTW. They do seem to be nearly equal over a one year analysis. :thumbup: Pretty incredible when you think about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

Bikes aren't free though. My Brompton cost nearly $3k and is the only folding bike that comes close to being as small as an EUC. Admittedly you can get the base model for $1.2k but the cost is comparable if you try to be like for like. 

Last night I went to the local Specialized store that opened up two days ago to check out their models. They did not have any eBikes on stock but they did have quite a selection (wall to wall, duh) of normal bikes of all sorts. I was impressed.

The cost of each and every normal bike was more than most any of my wheels. Basically the cheapest bikes started at $550 and went up well beyond $3000. If I wanted a fat tired 3 speed cruiser with an internal hub it was $1500. Starting. The 5 speed hub was more than $2000. No wonder bike theft is a huge problem in St Louis! That's money in the bank to steal one.

These bike prices made me depressed; have bicycles from all our local shops priced themselves out of reach? Craigslist was much the same; you have bikes from the 1970's priced between 300 to 500 dollars. From the '70's! Now there were Huffy's and Schwinn's from Walmart priced at $45 or so with the usual "rode less than ten times but I don't know anything about it". Which, of course, means something broke on it.

Although I didn't mention EUCs, I wonder if EUCs, being cheaper than almost any of these bicycles, could legitimately slot underneath as the bargain option. I believe EUCs could easily replace bicycles; they aren't hard to learn, are cheaper, and have a faster average speed. Might be a bit more dangerous though...

I got my Comp folding for $400 before they jacked the price up to $600.

Camp 20" Alloy 16 Speed Folding Bike Disc Brake Thunderbolt https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013D87T1S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_CU1EAbNG49BRK

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice one Ben, well done. Ive just drafted a letter to the london mayor, inspired by yours (but totally different). 

It would be useful to try to contact other PET groups and coordinate our efforts. I did email project 42 to ask if they knew of any coordinated efforts but never got a reply.

Edited by nute
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100% with you !! i currently drive in london after being told i could not take my wheel happy to support this in any way i can ! 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, dmethvin said:

Let's be honest, most likely I could put on a skirt and the Mounties would give me a pass. I've got pretty nice legs.

39430910554_9504d1f8c6_b.jpg

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im happy to contact the various resellers here to ask if they have any experience with this. Specifically in London there is Project 42 (asked them before but got no response), a small company called PET who also sell e boards etc, then Speedyfeet and Yorkshire AW. Ninebot Europe have just set up an office in Gloucester. Cant think of any others. 

Im also a member of an eSkate face book group which has a lot of members, I'm sure many of them would also come onboard with this. 

Im away next week tho so would have to get onto this once I'm back. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear friends .

I congratulate you for your eforts and positive attitude toward the issue of legalization and i hope you will be rewarded with at least an aknowledgement by the authorities of the potential practical uses and enviromental benefits of eucs .

I am an enthusiast of personal electric transportation and i own eucs , e-bicycles , e-skates and e-scooters and i like all of them . In my opinion they are a democraticaly afordable and human friendly alternative to the failed fossil fueled , congested , expensive , sound and air poluting , stressful and  unconfortable transport sistem we have today .

The simple fact is that the people are geting fed up of paying lots of money to comute like cattle inside  cramped metro and busses or being trapped for hours per day in traffic congested roads while breathing poisonous air on big cities like london . Public disobedience movements like critical mass demontrates that clearly .  Even the authorities are noticing that something has to change . I have heard of plans to make London's city centre car free .

Comparing pet device options availiable at the moment i can say that nothing matches the portability , easy of mantainance , agility and versatility of eucs . This devices are unique and that is why i absolutely love them . That is why loving ir or hating it , people notice it  (awesome !!! , sick !!! , nonsense , what is this contraption ? ,  wtf ?! )

On the other hand we can see even the most enthusiastic of us considering giving up eucs due to serious injuries suffered while riding .

I hope that eucs will improve safety records and prove to be more reliable in the future but till them i dont see how the legislators will move to  legalise them for road and pavement use .

 

 

Edited by Luiz
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Luiz said:

On the other hand we can see even the most enthusiastic of us considering giving up eucs due to serious injuries suffered while riding .

I hope that eucs will improve safety records and prove to be more reliable in the future but till them i dont see how the legislators will move to  legalise road and pavement useage.

safety is being improved all the time in these devices while meeting new performance records. All vehicles have had death or injuries. Name me one that didn't? maybe a rowing boat though I suspect one could have drowned after going far out in the sea and caught some serious currents If you put a motor to a rowing boat, then you have more ability to fight currents but lets face it... if you put a motor you're more likely to go far out in the sea and challange the currents.. which in return it will increase the possiblity of being lost in the sea. Even if you take subway or airplanes who continuously check for fit to travel systems have failures that caused injuries or death (and the worst part is that the majority of the persons on board have not make any decision to cause such failure and where there unluckily).

The ones who get injured are mostly the ones who look for reaching the device's limits (which happens to all forms of vehicles) I keep on stressing as I did on my long posts in the last 2 days, If we use it sensibly and reasonably they are far more safe than most means of transport that expose you to the environment. The reason is that we know the risks and what can go wrong with minimal feel of false safety. The worst part of it that it is a technology that has been introduced in mid our lives (and we already grasped a lot of its physics that needs to be known to the rider). A bicycle was there since we where born (and probably a motor bike also to all of us. I don't know if there is anyone old enough who don't recall a motorbike when he was young) which in return we accept such technology as safe as it was there with no question for understanding ever since, never the less if you're at a curve and your front wheel slips you're most likely going to crash with no recovery that you could think of (at least with an EUC you're standing and you are more likely to step off and recover).

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I consider myself very lucky .The only face plant i had happened on the first time i managed to ride in a straight line on a euc and it was my fault . (i passed the speed limmit on a airwheel x3) . In 3 years riding though i never had any other problems . On the contrary i recall many situations when the euc caught me up when i tought i would fall .

We cannot deny that any eletronic failures on an 1 wheel eletronic balaced veicle are potentialy catastrofic , particulary if you ride at more than 20 km/h. With 1 wheel you cannot just roll out of it  in case of a sudden electric failure like you can on an e-bike or e-scoter.

The fact that you are standind increase the risk of injury in my opinion.

I believe in risk management but if you still have shut downs while riding sensibly due to eletronic failures you have a very dangerous situation particulary if you are riding on the roads .

I confess that the frequence and severity of injures reported made me consider giving up as i gave up of motorcycles after a big fall.

Edited by Luiz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Luiz said:

We cannot deny that any eletronic failures on an 1 wheel eletronic balaced veicle are potentialy catastrofic , particulary if you ride at more than 20 km/h. With 1 wheel you cannot just rool out if it stops working suddenly like in a e-bike or e-scoter.

I do think that is one of the challenges in selling the legalization any of this motorized device technology. If it fits a traditional shape like a bicycle you can just say it goes where a bicycle goes and pass some rules about how fast they should go.

It's a bit trickier with EUCs. For city riding I actually prefer to stay away from the roads and only ride in bike lanes or on the sidewalk. We're just too exposed to be in the road that close to cars, and if you hit a road obstacle you may go flying under a bus. As far as I can tell, there isn't a lot of dedicated bike infrastructure in London. So that leaves the sidewalks as the best option.

However, if you're mixing up with pedestrians they will rightly be upset about an EUC whizzing by them at high speeds. The "Segway laws" that most states have in the US allow EPAMDs to ride on sidewalks but only up to about 12mph or 20kph. Even that is too fast if you are in close proximity to walkers, IMO. The worst disservice you could do to this effort would be to demand use of the sidewalk at high speeds because that will get you thrown back onto the roads, restricted just to the small number of bike lanes, or remain banned altogether. 

High speeds aren't even necessary for the EUC to be a useful commuting device. Even if I only average 9mph for my EUC trips, that is three times faster than walking. I am quite willing to hold my speed down in crowded pedestrian areas if it lets me avoid cars and get to where I'm going quicker.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

is it true Barcelona and/or Denmark have outlawed eucs? or did I just imagine reading that somewhere on this forum?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...