Legalising EUCs in the UK, the next steps

[LanghamP]

43 minutes ago, dmethvin said:

However, if you're mixing up with pedestrians they will rightly be upset about an EUC whizzing by them at high speeds. The "Segway laws" that most states have in the US allow EPAMDs to ride on sidewalks but only up to about 12mph or 20kph. Even that is too fast if you are in close proximity to walkers, IMO. The worst disservice you could do to this effort would be to demand use of the sidewalk at high speeds because that will get you thrown back onto the roads, restricted just to the small number of bike lanes, or remain banned altogether. 

High speeds aren't even necessary for the EUC to be a useful commuting device. Even if I only average 9mph for my EUC trips, that is three times faster than walking. I am quite willing to hold my speed down in crowded pedestrian areas if it lets me avoid cars and get to where I'm going quicker.

Never have truer words been spoken!

Something like a Segway S1 which by our standards lolls very slowly, is still twice as fast as a jogger. With even a moderate wheel such as the KS16s, you'd handily beat every entry at every marathon. Wheels are incredibly useful when we use them in place of walking. Wheels are also incredibly dangerous when we use them in place of bicycling. It follows you should use wheels somewhere in between, depending on your bravery and need.

I personally try to keep the speed whereby I'm passing all walkers, most runners, and no bicyclists.

Unless I'm going uphill. Then I'm passing all bicyclists.

[nute]

2 hours ago, Paddylaz said:

is it true Barcelona and/or Denmark have outlawed eucs? or did I just imagine reading that somewhere on this forum?

Not sure about Barcelona but Denmark has specifically legalised them as of Jan this year.

[Migsteruk]

i know you can ride segway in barcelona i took a tour on one last year

[Jonathan Tolhurst]

11 hours ago, dmethvin said:

I do think that is one of the challenges in selling the legalization any of this motorized device technology. If it fits a traditional shape like a bicycle you can just say it goes where a bicycle goes and pass some rules about how fast they should go.

It's a bit trickier with EUCs. For city riding I actually prefer to stay away from the roads and only ride in bike lanes or on the sidewalk. We're just too exposed to be in the road that close to cars, and if you hit a road obstacle you may go flying under a bus. As far as I can tell, there isn't a lot of dedicated bike infrastructure in London. So that leaves the sidewalks as the best option.

However, if you're mixing up with pedestrians they will rightly be upset about an EUC whizzing by them at high speeds. The "Segway laws" that most states have in the US allow EPAMDs to ride on sidewalks but only up to about 12mph or 20kph. Even that is too fast if you are in close proximity to walkers, IMO. The worst disservice you could do to this effort would be to demand use of the sidewalk at high speeds because that will get you thrown back onto the roads, restricted just to the small number of bike lanes, or remain banned altogether. 

High speeds aren't even necessary for the EUC to be a useful commuting device. Even if I only average 9mph for my EUC trips, that is three times faster than walking. I am quite willing to hold my speed down in crowded pedestrian areas if it lets me avoid cars and get to where I'm going quicker.

I would agree with these points. In the letter template that I created, I was advocating a "change in UK legislation to allow considerate legal use of Electric Unicycles on footpaths, dedicated cycle lanes and shared spaces." This would allow a rider to get around pretty much anywhere. 

Riding an EUC in rush-hour road traffic would be incredibly dangerous, especially in London where roads are narrow, busy and everyone is rushing. And riding fast around "mobile phone Zombies" (Pedestrians) could also invite trouble.

London is actually investing a lot of money into dedicated cycle ways (much to the annoyance of some car drivers) - there is now a reasonably decent network that is expanding all the time. One idea that is occasionally touted is the "Cycle Skyway" - An elevated cycle way running above the railway lines. It sounds rather pie-in-the-sky (I.e. it will never happen) but could be perfect for EUCs.

London Cycle Skyway: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/architecture-design-blog/2014/jan/02/norman-foster-skycycle-elevated-bike-routes-london

https://www.fosterandpartners.com/ar/news/archive/2013/12/skycycle-proposals-to-create-safe-new-cycle-routes-throughout-london/

Shared Spaces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

[Ben Pearson]

Thanks for all of the great feedback, I've gone through everything here and everything in the Facebook groups that I posted it in and have a final letter that I plan on sending a little later today.

I've also taken the letter @Jonathan Tolhurst templated to send to a local MP, made a couple of modifications and saved it in the same folder. As per your suggestion, I'm going to try and keep track of where I send it to and what sort of responses I get in the same folder on Google Drive.

Both of the letters are saved in here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RKG1Of0t_zsdfEu4sMwoE45uzQqLK-js - it's publicly readable.

If any interesting responses come back, or I gain any momentum from the letters, I'll aim to make the folder more publicly visible.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Ben Pearson

[Luiz]

Congratulatios for all involved in this serious and high level discussion .

I am still very skeptical but I am starting to allow myself to have some hope of pet devices legalisation in UK when i see such inteligent and rational arguments .

Time has arrived for us to present dispationate and reality ankered ideas to the authorities  . You have my full support .

That is the way to go !!!! .

Great job guys 

By the way . I love the skyway proposition . It is a great opportunity for london and UK to be in the forefront of history once again and revolutionize city transportation all arround the world  . British ingenuity and forward thinking revolutionized the world for the better and made Great Britain one of the most relevant coutries in the human history .

The Amsterdan option is not optimal as the bicycles still have to negotiate with overground metro , cars , busses  and motorcycles in the crossings generating potentialy dangerous situations. 

Maybe it is time for london to lead the way again and to be in the forefront of chage.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Luiz

[Jonathan Tolhurst]

Please see below for my MPs response to my letter - I read this as "thank you for your letter but no thank you" 
There are potentially related local sensitivities to this: In my area last summer there was an epidemic of Motorbikes being ridden dangerously on roads and pavements with a lot of wider community anger.
The more I have looked into how lobbying seems to work, the more I think that a successful UK campaign would need to include lobbying from manufacturers and distributors. I still await a response from the Mayor of London!

--

From: Sarah Jones MP <XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX>
Date: Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 2:25 PM
Subject: (Case Ref: SJ3989) Electric unicycles
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Dear Jonathan,

Thank you for your letter regarding considerate use of electric unicycles on footpaths. I agree that it is important to explore innovative transport solutions that can help reduce congestion and decrease the impact of commuting on the environment. It's important that we continue to explore innovative transport solutions, while ensuring that existing transport options are not compromised by these changes.

I recognise that electric unicycle users are in a difficult position, as these devices are not permitted on footpaths as they are considered a motor vehicle, but they do not meet the necessary safety standards to be used on the road either (see: https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic-offences#dot). However, as these vehicles travel at faster speeds than the average walking speed, providing for their use among pedestrian traffic is challenging, particularly on narrow footpaths and in crowded areas.

I will continue to follow this issue closely and will keep your thoughts in mind if this issue comes up in Parliament.

Thanks again for your letter.

Best wishes,

Sarah Jones MP
Labour Member of Parliament for Croydon Central

--

 

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Jonathan Tolhurst
Grammar

[Cannings]

Well that's a big thanks for nothing Sarah Jones

[Stan Onymous]

Does Sarah's opponent in the next election want your vote? Would they be in support of quicker foot traffic and fewer cars. Would they like to be seen as doing something to decrease congestion?

Better than a do nothing to make your life better, Sarah Jones. Is Sarah MP who can help this district? 

I say we buy one of Boris Johnson's kids a EUC and see what happens. Now thats lobbying. If there is a gift limit, give it to him as a loaner for a half a year, then auction it off for charity.

This is a wonderful first step. Its just that the Sarah Jones step has some bum poop on it. We shall step over that, and make our way to the next one. Onward in a Ken Keesey sort of way.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Stan Onymous

[nute]

That seems a crap response. Why the hell can't we use them on cycle lanes?

I am awaiting a response from my MP and chased him a few days back. Apparently he is taking the matter up with the DoT, maybe if you can prompt Sarah Jones to do the same they will see that there a lot of us chasing this issue. All the time we are each writing to or separate MP's and getting fobbed off there will be no one minister/department who realises that there are multiple users chasing this issue. 

Id write back to her to suggest that these are ideal to use in anywhere people use bikes and that any / all forms of personal electric transport are ideal ways of encouraging the use of public transport (for first and last miles). 

I also wrote to the London Mayor who passed it on to transport for london. There are almost 300 members of the london Facebook EUC group. If only half of the wrote to the London Mayor and their MP's over a short period it might mean we get noticed and listened to ... maybe...

[Ben Pearson]

I also had a reply from my local MP. It was a much more promising response though! I'm going to go and meet him to talk about it.

-

Dear Ben,

Thank you for your recent letter on the potential legalisation of electric unicycles on footpaths, cycle lanes, and shared spaces.

I was interested to receive your letter. This is not only because you are one of my constituents, but also because I am the Shadow Minister for Local Transport - so, if all goes well (!), I may well be in a position in future to implement legislation of this kind in Government.

I will be happy to hear more from you, and to discuss your suggestions with other members of the Shadow Transport Team. I'm sure there will be another side to the argument - including safety for pedestrians, cyclists, and of course electric unicycle users. But it is good to be receptive to all viewpoints.

As such, I am writing to say that I am hosting a drop-in surgery at St. John and St. Stephen Church, RG1 3JN, from 10:00-12:00 on Friday 6th April. If you are able to attend I would be very happy to speak further then. As the surgery is a drop-in event, there may well be a high level of attendance. As such, I would recommend arriving early so that we can guarantee a chance to speak.

Yours sincerely,

Matt Rodda
Member of Parliament for Reading East

-

[novazeus]

i’ve noticed in my lifetime, the easiest response is to say “no”.

if they say “yes” now they have created a ton of work and responsibility for themselves.

next time ur in a store, ask a store clerk if they have some unusual item, that they are standing right next to, u will probably get a “no”. a “yes” means they’d have to think, find it, then show u where it is, and maybe answer more questions about it.

just waay easier to say “no”. they know they’ll still get a paycheck.

[Jonathan Tolhurst]

Response from the Mayor of London:

--
From: Mayor of London <XXXXXXX@london.gov.uk>
Date: Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: MGLA230218-4507

Dear Mr Tolhurst

Thank you for your email to the Mayor regarding Electric Unicycles and kindly inviting him to discuss this matter further. 

I am very sorry but, whilst the Mayor is extremely grateful for the invitation, I am afraid that his schedule is extremely busy over the coming months, so he is unable to accept. 

Your wider point regarding UK legislation would, in any case, need to be discussed further with the Department for Transport, which is responsible for national legislation. 

Thank you again for writing to the Mayor. 

Yours sincerely, 
Claire Hamilton

--

[Paddylaz]

I think @Jason McNeilhimself once had a run-in with Boris Johnson on his EUC...

....obviously we have a different mayor now but I think Jason said he was very intrigued.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Paddylaz

[nute]

On 3/28/2018 at 9:22 AM, Ben Pearson said:

I also had a reply from my local MP. It was a much more promising response though! I'm going to go and meet him to talk about it.

-

Dear Ben,

Thank you for your recent letter on the potential legalisation of electric unicycles on footpaths, cycle lanes, and shared spaces.

I was interested to receive your letter. This is not only because you are one of my constituents, but also because I am the Shadow Minister for Local Transport - so, if all goes well (!), I may well be in a position in future to implement legislation of this kind in Government.

I will be happy to hear more from you, and to discuss your suggestions with other members of the Shadow Transport Team. I'm sure there will be another side to the argument - including safety for pedestrians, cyclists, and of course electric unicycle users. But it is good to be receptive to all viewpoints.

As such, I am writing to say that I am hosting a drop-in surgery at St. John and St. Stephen Church, RG1 3JN, from 10:00-12:00 on Friday 6th April. If you are able to attend I would be very happy to speak further then. As the surgery is a drop-in event, there may well be a high level of attendance. As such, I would recommend arriving early so that we can guarantee a chance to speak.

Yours sincerely,

Matt Rodda
Member of Parliament for Reading East

-

Well thats more encouraging than the usual "sorry, but no"...

The 6th is this Friday, wonder if i could make it even though I'm not a constituent of his....:)

[Ben Pearson]

I met with Matt Rodda a couple of weeks ago, and he was actually really excited and interested by the EUCs.

I've created a video to send to him (there wasn't enough time to demonstrate to him), I thought I would share it here as well

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Ben Pearson

[nute]

Looks really good Ben. You should send it to the london mayor as well. 

I was tempted to turn up to the surgery operated by Matt Rodda but as I'm not one of his constituents and wasn't sure he'd see me. Glad you made it and put our case. 

[Cannings]

Great video ben, really shows the benefits

[Roo Williams]

Yeah great work Ben. That's a useful video to show anyone the benefits of EUCs as urban transport. I'm a Brit living in NYC at the moment so although not strictly legal here I haven't had any bother. I may move back to the UK in the distant future so am keeping an eye on this and am rootin' for ya!

 

[Keith]

On 4/29/2018 at 4:00 PM, Ben Pearson said:

I met with Matt Rodda a couple of weeks ago, and he was actually really excited and interested by the EUCs.

I've created a video to send to him (there wasn't enough time to demonstrate to him), I thought I would share it here as well

 

Ben, apologies for not seeing this earlier, your video is excellent - it brilliantly serves the purpose you produced it for but, as well, KingSong ought be paying you to do their advertising.

[Jonathan Tolhurst]

BBC News Article from today RE: "Hover Skates" and the dreaded Highways Act of 1835 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44952844

[Kael]

19 minutes ago, Jonathan Tolhurst said:

BBC News Article from today RE: "Hover Skates" and the dreaded Highways Act of 1835 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44952844

Just saw that. Applies to electric unicycles, too. Those kinds of “here’s the law” articles the BBC puts out occasionally are big reminders the Beeb is a government mouth piece. No thought on whether classifying everything as a carriage as per a 180 year old law is a stupid idea or not. 

[Smoother]

On 2/9/2018 at 9:28 PM, Migsteruk said:

i know you can ride segway in barcelona i took a tour on one last year

Somebody rents EUC (not Segways) to the general public in Barcelona!!!???  That's got to be the mother of all training sessions.

[Tom]

On 8/3/2018 at 7:19 PM, Smoother said:

Somebody rents EUC (not Segways) to the general public in Barcelona!!!???  That's got to be the mother of all training sessions.

I don't think he meant EUC Segways. I saw many traditional Segway tours in Barcelona, but no rental EUCs... I did however see 10+ EUCs in a single day walking around Barcelona, they seem to be much more popular over there.

[The Moo]

On 4/29/2018 at 3:00 PM, Ben Pearson said:

I've created a video to send to him (there wasn't enough time to demonstrate to him), I thought I would share it here as well

Wow! Thanks so much for making this video. I am currently working on getting together a large amount of information about EUC's to present to my MP and this will go right on top!