UniVehje Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 21 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said: No no no no no no. There is nothing, nothing nothing better in their updates yet. Wait it out. Are you saying the original is better? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 31 minutes ago, UniVehje said: Are you saying the original is better? I never got any Overloads on the original firmware. On my paved Cliff hill it was a dream how easy it was in v. 1.07. Now I have to baby it up the same hill and sometimes it Overloads and sometimes not. I am only 150 lbs, so I am not sure what gives, but there are no , not a one improvement for me and the Firmware updates. I wish I had never upgraded, it's so disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltocs Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 13 hours ago, Fastmike said: @maltocs looking again at your video and mainly comments on 2.2.8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tngxSmOb5s&feature=youtu.be Does that mean that in a try to resolve the overheat problem, InMotion has intentionally limited the max power to 1226W??? vs the 2000W of 'sustained' power advertized with peaks up to 4000W for the V10F??? Something is really wrong there.. Seems to be a temperature thing. According to InMotion USA, Bob says overheats are directly related to heatsink temps. When I ride the gradual long hills, I'm not pushing the power, but apparently, I'm causing the heatsink temps to hit whatever it is that triggers the overload. That magic number and formula is what seems to perplex. The only temp in the app is the mainboard temp and that is all over the map when it overloads. 7 hours ago, Harold Farrenkopf said: I bought the V10F because I couldn’t wait for the Z10 anymore and glad I did. The height of the shin pads makes it very sturdy and easy to mount. I’m still on the original firmware waiting for confirmation that the firmware is fixed and won’t affect my wheel or ride for my fat 255 pound 6 hours ago, Stan Onymous said: No no no no no no. There is nothing, nothing nothing better in their updates yet. Wait it out. I personally think the 2.2.8 is the best firmware I've used so far, for a 200lb rider that is. it overloads less than any of the previous firmwares . Well, unless you are 150lbs that is. When @Stan Onymous went and did a test, we swapped V10F's to take the variable of a bad wheel out of the equation, and the BIG Concrete hill he didn't have any problem in the past getting up he had problems now. When I took the 2.2.8 wheel out on my own hill, I didn't over heat on 2 of the 3 hills I overheated on before. But for the VAST majority of riders, those that don't scale big hills AND weight over 200 lbs, this wheel is awesome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusius15 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 8 hours ago, UniVehje said: Same for me. I would still be riding my S2 and waiting for the Z10. Horrible thought. I am in exactly the same situation as you are. But the more I'm reading this topic (and the ones about Z10), the more I'm worrying I made a mistake... Though the Z10 is turning far too expensive for me. I was expecting it to cost between 1600€ and 1800€ (max 1900€)... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 On 7/24/2018 at 11:56 AM, MBIKER_SURFER said: O.K. - no load (weight) on the wheel. I can't get any further than 51 km (85kg - no offroad, no hills) - than the wheel kicks me off. So for me, it is very disappointing concerning range of the V10F. What range did you exspect? That sounds like a normal usage of about 16-18wh per km, or? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stan Onymous Posted July 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2018 11 hours ago, maltocs said: But for the VAST majority of riders, those that don't scale big hills AND weight over 200 lbs, this wheel is awesome I think If I had it to do over again, knowing what I know now, I would have a hard time choosing between the V10F and the Kingsong 16S. Its only a little over 1mph slower, but it is 7 lbs lighter. Seems like the KS16s even has a better use of the wattage for the motor. What good is a 2000 watt motor if you Overload at 1300 watts? You never reach its full efficiency, and you pull around all that weight just to make the motor that large. It pains me to write this about a vehicle I was fully prepared to love and fall under its spell. I used to say that the feel of the acceleration on the InMotion was like a Jaguar automobile. Now I am thinking the engineering is like them too, but in the 1980’s - 1990’s way. If you are 255lbs and having no difficulties in firmware V. 1.07, then there is nothing the new Firmware will offer you. Not ride, possibly an extra mile in distance, but thats like having two weeks in Puerto Rico during hurricane season instead of one. Comfort Ride Mode is the original firmware with a slight reduction in power. Classic Mode is absolute rubbish and totally made to embarass the Company and the rider alike. If it aint broke DO NOT FIX IT! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stan Onymous Posted July 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2018 10 hours ago, Confusius15 said: I am in exactly the same situation as you are. But the more I'm reading this topic (and the ones about Z10), the more I'm worrying I made a mistake... Though the Z10 is turning far too expensive for me. I was expecting it to cost between 1600€ and 1800€ (max 1900€)... If you love the InMotion ride feel, the Z10 will make you love it even more. It is stable beyond belief, but on its own terms. It too seems to be having some overheat or overload problems, but they are forging ahead with a whole new control board instead of the bandaid firmware fixes. I am being so harsh on InMotion because I know the vehicle is capable of more and I dont want InMotion to rest and say - well we settled the Overload with firmware so lets move onto the next vehicle to engineer- , because No they havent. Its better than nothing, but a lot pricier too. The vehicle clearly needs a newly designed control board to appropriately handle the power from the motor, and we should not be satisfied until they have ironed this out better. Think about it. If the vehicle is overheating at the heatsinks on hills the V8 can do, then there is misdirected power that is creating that heat. Thermodynamics is all about dumping heat to create power on the cool side in cumbustion engines and power utilities. The V10 series holds that heat and wont let it go, making the power less and less in those conditions. As a dealer, just as in Gambling, I dont think I could walk away from the table with hands clean brushed twice and showing open palms. The game is just not yet over here. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryR Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, maltocs said: Seems to be a temperature thing. According to InMotion USA, Bob says overheats are directly related to heatsink temps. When I ride the gradual long hills, I'm not pushing the power, but apparently, I'm causing the heatsink temps to hit whatever it is that triggers the overload. That magic number and formula is what seems to perplex. The only temp in the app is the mainboard temp and that is all over the map when it overloads. I personally think the 2.2.8 is the best firmware I've used so far, for a 200lb rider that is. it overloads less than any of the previous firmwares . Well, unless you are 150lbs that is. When @Stan Onymous went and did a test, we swapped V10F's to take the variable of a bad wheel out of the equation, and the BIG Concrete hill he didn't have any problem in the past getting up he had problems now. When I took the 2.2.8 wheel out on my own hill, I didn't over heat on 2 of the 3 hills I overheated on before. But for the VAST majority of riders, those that don't scale big hills AND weight over 200 lbs, this wheel is awesome. I'm 220+ lbs (with gear) and ride up and down all the steep hills in Seattle with no problems. Running 2.2.8 now. I tend to push pretty hard up the hills. Yesterday, a short ride at temps of 87 degrees I hit a Max. Power of 2256 watts and 22.7 mph with no overload. Of course, my ride was only a 2.3 mile round trip (maybe 6 minutes each way), up and down medium steep hills. Like @maltocs, I really love the ride of this machine. Over the past three years my wheels have been the Xtreme and the V8. I loved my V8 too. My motherboard temperature showed 111 F. The "main board" temperature on my app doesn't work. According to that, I'm at dry ice temperature of -98 F. I'm running iOS. Does anyone have a fix for this temperature reading problem? I've deleted and reloaded the app to no avail. Edited July 28, 2018 by JerryR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, JerryR said: Yesterday, a short ride at temps of 87 degrees I hit a Max. Power of 2256 watts and 22.7 mph with no overload. Of course, my ride was only a 2.3 mile round trip (maybe 6 minutes each way), up and down medium steep hills. Like @maltocs, I really love the ride of this machine. Over the past three years my wheels have been the Xtreme and the V8. I loved my V8 too. It seems to do okay below 90°F. Over that and it will perplex you with the Overload on those same hills. We did a test on that Hill with Maltocs that he always overheats on and I was able to overheat on but when attempted at the lower temps myself and a 180lb rider had no OVERLOADS when the temperature was in the high 80’s F. Not that scientific since we didnt use a 200lb rider, but I was not able to Overload it in this temperature range. Unfortunately, I am riding the V10 in Southern California where it is regularly over 90°f in the July - Sept months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 On 7/24/2018 at 11:56 AM, MBIKER_SURFER said: O.K. - no load (weight) on the wheel. I can't get any further than 51 km (85kg - no offroad, no hills) - than the wheel kicks me off. So for me, it is very disappointing concerning range of the V10F. That is a perfectly normal range for a 960Wh battery. Unless you believed the absurd marketing (up to 62 miles = 100km!), there is no reason to complain. Here's my formula for estimating a wheel's range: you can use 100% to 20% battery (20% is like 0% under load, and at 20% the wheels slow down extremely and will throw you off soon, so that's where the fun stops), and you use 15-16Wh per km (probably closer to 16 for your 85kg) if you go about 30km/h. So for the V10F: 960Wh*0.8/16Wh/km = 48km (51.2 for 15Wh/km). For comparison: my ACM 1300Wh: 1300Wh*0.8/(15-16)Wh/km = 64-69km, which is exactly what I get. Of course the Wh/km depends a lot on speed (and other stuff) but your range is exactly what one would expect. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glitched Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stan Onymous said: ause I know the vehicle is capable of more and I dont want InMotion to rest and say - well we settled the Overload with firmware so lets move onto the next vehicle to engineer- , because No they havent. Its better than nothing, but a lot pricier too. The vehicle clearly needs a newly designed control board to appropriately handle the power from the motor, and we should not be satisfied until they have ironed this out better. Think about it. If the vehicle is overheating at the heatsinks on hills the V8 can do, then there is misdirected power that is creating that heat. Thermodynamics is all about dumping heat to create power on th I just bought the V10F (pending August shipment) but glad in a way that I'll have to wait another month, and wait on the next batch, before I get mine.. albeit even as a 140lb rider. I sure do want it to perform way better than a KS16S, for the extra weight and extra power this is advertised to have ... not clear reading here if it really tends to throttle the engine to 1300wh where it can, or if that was from a very specific set of circumstances. If only the KS16S lowered their price to like 1k USD, I feel it's too much at ~1300 (or was it 1200, either way). PS what happens if InMotion upgrades the control board in a later batch? I'd have to order it and install it myself? (Ordered from InMotion) Edited July 28, 2018 by Glitched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, US69 said: What range did you exspect? That sounds like a normal usage of about 16-18wh per km, or? About 18Wh per km - right. With my V5F I'm in the range of 12 Wh +- I expected at least 60 km in flat area. The wheel would be able to do this, without the restriction, that you can only use 90% of the battery. Nobody tells you this real disadvantage! ? Edited July 28, 2018 by MBIKER_SURFER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Stan Onymous said: I think If I had it to do over again, knowing what I know now, I would have a hard time choosing between the V10F and the Kingsong 16S. Its only a little over 1mph slower, but it is 7 lbs lighter. Seems like the KS16s even has a better use of the wattage for the motor. But the high pitch noise of the KingSong wheels is absolutely inacceptable. I gave mine back - the V10F is like a grave - compared to KS wheels ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 22 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: That is a perfectly normal range for a 960Wh battery. Unless you believed the absurd marketing (up to 62 miles = 100km!), there is no reason to complain. Here's my formula for estimating a wheel's range: you can use 100% to 20% battery (20% is like 0% under load, and at 20% the wheels slow down extremely and will throw you off soon, so that's where the fun stops), and you use 15-16Wh per km (probably closer to 16 for your 85kg) if you go about 30km/h. So for the V10F: 960Wh*0.8/16Wh/km = 48km (51.2 for 15Wh/km). t. Well - my expectations were made up by the consumption of my 5F - and the mileage I get with the 5F - max 26 km - the same routes I were drive with the V10F 280Wh to 960 Wh. Make up your mind ☺️. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em1barns Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MBIKER_SURFER said: About 18Wh per km - right. With my V5F I'm in the range of 12 Wh +- I expected at least 60 km in flat area. The wheel would be able to do this, without the restriction, that you can ponly use 90% of the battery. Nobody tells you this real disadvantage! ? And do you drive at the same speed as with your v5F? Consumption, as with cars, depends on your engine size and your speed. Edited July 28, 2018 by em1barns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) Of course - no. But compared to the max speed capability of the wheels, the V10 F is used in a energy conserving mode - to my opinion. The average speed on cruising is 20 km/h for the 5F and 25 km/h for the 10F. As mentioned - no hills - no offroad. Edited July 28, 2018 by MBIKER_SURFER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 hour ago, MBIKER_SURFER said: But the high pitch noise of the KingSong wheels is absolutely inacceptable. I gave mine back - the V10F is like a grave - compared to KS wheels ? That's what the speakers are for. Drowning out the Kingsong high pitched whine with your own sounds or music. I do like the satisfying sigh of the V10F. That's not my point. Riding it is the point, and I can always drown out the high frequency or just get old enough where I don't hear it anymore. Lol I can't blow on the V10 motor like I am cooling off a spoonful of soup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post em1barns Posted July 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MBIKER_SURFER said: Of course - no. But compared to the max speed capability of the wheels, the V10 F is used in aenergy conserving mode - to my opinion. The average speed on cruising is 20 km/h for the 5F and 25 km/h for the 10F. As mentioned - no hills - no offroad. The energy it takes to move the wheel is generally proportional to square of speed. So going from 20 to 25km/h takes 50% more energy, which is exactly what you are observing (12wh/km vs 18wh/km). Edited July 28, 2018 by em1barns 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nils Posted July 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2018 Just picked up my V10F today. I unpacked it and took it for a ride with the shipped firmware (1.1.7 I believe?). I'm coming from KS16B, and can say that I found the ride experience compared to that very different off the bat. While I find the KS16B to be small and aggressive and requiring some constant controlling effort, stepping on the V10F was more like getting on this stable cruiser and sailing along. It's definitely a lot more stable, . After the short test ride I upgraded the firmware to 2.2.8 and had another quick ride in comfort mode. I found this to be a welcome improvement compared to the previous version, since I got more torque and responsive acceleration which I like. I just had two quick test rides so can't say that much apart from being eager to test it more A few things though: - Yes, the charging port is ridiculously hard to open - The pedals are nice, and compared to the KS16 they're higher - didn't manage to scrape them as I easily have done with the KS16 so far - It's a *very* welcome change compared to the KS16 with regards to sound (I'm sensitive to high pitched sounds) I don't expect that the overload thing will hit me too hard as 1) my usual riding will mostly involve flat lands and 2) being located in the northern hemisphere I'll expect that I'll most often ride in lower temperatures. That being said, it's actually unusually hot here right now and I'm going up north for a week where there are some hills, so I'll bring it along to see for myself how much it can take before the overload hits. I agree with @Stan Onymous however in that I'd like to see more in terms of feedback from Inmotion regarding this. At this point it seems obvious that it's a design flaw, and in order to restore some brand confidence I'd personally like to see them own it. So, do I regret the buy? Well, these are early days yet, and I've yet to see whether the overload issue will be a factor in my everyday life. That being said, one has to consider the alternatives and ones preferences. For me the contenders were the V10F, the KS18L, the MjsuperX and the Z10. I already have a King song, and while I like the wheel well enough I *hate* the high pitched whining emancipating from it. Isn't there anyone with functioning hearing working over there? This apparently is a KS hall mark with the KS18L being no exception. Apart from that the KS18L also has had quality issues with packaging and led malfunctioning. The MsuperX has all the power and seems very far from the overload issues we're discussing here. On the other hand it has pedals that perhaps only a mother can love, and is trailed by (and brazenly adds to) a history of crappy craftmanship. That leaves the Z10. The Z10 actually seems like a contender to me, but reviews have been mixed. @Marty Backe loves it it seems though, and from what I can tell the tire pressure used with that wheel can actually make or break your experience which might explain the more negative early reviews. For me personally I didn't really consider it though. Partly due to the early reviews, but mostly because I bought an electrical Ninebot kick bike (ES4) which immediately failed with a broken hall sensor for the acceleration. That being fixed I rode it only a shorter distance before some screws actually broke and I had to dismantle and repair the thing myself with new screws and by introducing some much needed bolts that the original designers apparently skimped on. The whole thing left me with a sour taste in my mouth with regards to Ninebot and quality so there you go. Hopefully the Z10 have higher quality though, but that's the brand penalty you pay when you put out crappy stuff (and also why I'd like to see Inmotion handle the V10F situation in a nice manner). 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Traveller Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Nils said: Yes, the charging port is ridiculously hard to open A piece of plastic like a credit card would help here. BTW: does someone use an original protective cover for V10 or no falls=scratches so far? Edited July 28, 2018 by Mystic Traveller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mystic Traveller said: A piece of plastic like a credit card would help here. BTW: does someone use an original protective cover for V10 or no falls=scratches so far? Ordered - but not on stock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastmike Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 hour ago, em1barns said: And do you drive at the same speed as with your v5F? Consumption, as with cars, depends on your engine size and your speed. Strangely, a guy who is currently doing a Tour of France (3000kms) with a KS18L, reported after 1200Kms an average range of 66kms. His weight with gears is reported at 100Kgs. So even if the battery of the KS is higher end and a little bit bigger, I would also have expected at least 60kms for the V10F with no offroad and a lighter payload... Just my 2 cent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Fastmike said: Strangely, a guy who is currently doing a Tour of France (3000kms) with a KS18L, reported after 1200Kms an average range of 66kms. His weight with gears is reported at 100Kgs. So even if the battery of the KS is higher end and a little bit bigger, I would also have expected at least 60kms for the V10F with no offroad and a lighter payload... That's my experience too. The KingSong with 680Wh did 50 km without problems on 1 go But due to the dealer, all KS wheels have this bloody annoying high pitch sound. My wife wouldn't join me ay longer with her bicycle - too loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Traveller Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 32 minutes ago, MBIKER_SURFER said: but not on stock! Yup, same here, not yet landed at the local distributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soc101 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 hour ago, MBIKER_SURFER said: Ordered - but not on stock! Using a v8 cover fits pretty snug. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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