Leaperkim Lynx 2700wh: 151V, 20" tire, suspension, 89lb

[joyrider]

5 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I am tempted to try a softer pedal mode and with the pedals tilted back a bit. Then acceleration would tilt me to level or perhaps go to positive forward tilt.
Braking might be interesting though!

Would be cool if you could select in firmware to do the reverse when braking though!

So you're liking it right?

Edited March 27 by joyrider

[daniel1234]

Since Lynx seems like a big commercial success, I hope LeaperKim now invests their time into FW tuning

[t0me]

Yup,  and making the app/odo/speedo more accurate.   Making the logs accessible.    In general make the app better.

Next version,   adjustable pedals,   improved trolley handle and power button,   and better solution to the bearing slop issue,   add a USB port,   anti-glare light reflector,  better brake light...

 

[InfiniteWheelie]

I think this new style of wheel with narrow battery boxes (front to back) is stupid. As shown in pictures a few posts back, there’s hardly any room to mount pads. I wouldn’t buy one myself for that reason.

Even if they’re going to use these 4p batteries, just double up the box (forward/back direction) so theres room for pads…

This also has the benefit of being able to offer multiple battery configurations in the same platform, which i think Begode is actually doing the Commander GT Pro line. The regular version is 4p, the + model is 6p, but there seems to be room for 8p (which happens to line up perfectly with the rumoured 6000wh model).

Edited March 27 by InfiniteWheelie

[t0me]

This is what I'd like to see...   Something allowing for them to be narrower in the middle.    Pads can adapt.   
EUC's can be longer.    The space in front and behind our legs can be wider.    
Our natural stances are wider at our feet than at our knee's.    So EUC's can be wider at the bottom than at the top too (what I'm thinking would be achieved with the battery boxes at an angle like that).

[novazeus]

why i love my lynxes. had to cut my ride short today because of the storm which meant blazing a new path home. 

 

[Mike Sacristan]

On 3/26/2024 at 9:56 PM, Planemo said:

Have things moved on now from the old skool Begode/Gotway/Veteran 'beeps @ 80%' thing then?

In fact I thought I read somewhere that the OG Sherman had beeps at 70%, never tested it myself though.

I know this is a Lynx thread but I set the PWM tiltback on my EX30 to 80% thinking that it should start tilting at about the same time it starts beeping. Is that not the case then?! Asking cos I know you have an EX30 and the Veteran software was very similar for a long time..

This is Leaperkim totally screwing up PWM reporting on the Lynx in ways that can't even be corrected or scaled.

EX30 PWM tiltback at 80% PWM is very reliable without field weakening and relies on internal PWM reporting which is accurate. Bluetooth transmitted PWM is off by quite a bit though but can be corrected. I find PWM alarms to be useful as I like to set them at 5% below my PWM limit so I have a vibrating pre-warning and also to tell me that I am going to slow.

Begode has a very nice implementation which is almost as good as Freestyler's PWM tiltback.
Since PWM is user adjustable (for some models like T4, Mten4, Master, EX30, etc) and PWM% value triggers beeps and tiltback then you get both at the same time. The tiltback is a tiny bit sharp though and starts exactly at the same time as the PWM alarms so you don't get much of a heads up. I suggest you get acquainted with the tilt feel at something like 60% PWM. You will still be hitting close to 60kmh GPS speed (I use -13% speed reduction). Freestyler implementation would start beeping first and initiate a slow tiltback which then became more prominent as you continued to push. Then you could surf the tiltback on a beeping wheel and all is good. You can do the same on Begode firmware but a heavy acceleration into tiltback could feel sharp. Still we rarely do sharp accelerations to 80kmh.

The Leaperkim implementation allows for user adjustable PWM tiltback but the beeps do not follow. The beeps will only follow their hardcoded value of ~83% PWM.

Freestyler posted the Leaperkim PWM values for the Leaperkim wheels. You can find his post linked below but short answer for the Sherman is 76%.
Patton is at 83% like the Sherman S.

Lynx I can't get to beep while riding even though just now I hit 70kmh uncorrected at 60% battery and with high speed mode off and DB reporting 85% PWM.
Then I did a lift test  at half battery or 131V and I got beeps at 74kmh. And 96kmh at 100% PWM and cutoff. And I raised tiltback to 90% PWM and could not notice it when doing the lift test.

+4C here today. 
 

 

[Mike Sacristan]

21 hours ago, joyrider said:

Would be cool if you could select in firmware to do the reverse when braking though!

So you're liking it right?

I bumped into my buddy Tobias today when leaving work. He was on his new Lynx. I saw him donkey lean into it and it turns out he was in soft mode. Today I felt like I had to work my ass off to get 40kmh. So I got home.. raised the tire pressure from 26 PSI to 28 PSI and took off. Half way through I set it to soft mode 12%. Now I could just chill and be at 50kmh. Braking was much easier too. Stable at speed, braking, turning, etc. Only problem is I can't do burnouts on gravel. But for street riding the soft mode is excellent and makes the wheel much more responsive and intuitive once you get used to it. 

I am definitely liking it and it is pretty much a perfect wheel except for the insanely screwed up alarms and dynamic tiltback.

[Planemo]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

EX30 PWM tiltback at 80% PWM is very reliable without field weakening and relies on internal PWM reporting which is accurate. Bluetooth transmitted PWM is off by quite a bit though but can be corrected. I find PWM alarms to be useful as I like to set them at 5% below my PWM limit so I have a vibrating pre-warning and also to tell me that I am going to slow.

Begode has a very nice implementation which is almost as good as Freestyler's PWM tiltback.
Since PWM is user adjustable (for some models like T4, Mten4, Master, EX30, etc) and PWM% value triggers beeps and tiltback then you get both at the same time. The tiltback is a tiny bit sharp though and starts exactly at the same time as the PWM alarms so you don't get much of a heads up. I suggest you get acquainted with the tilt feel at something like 60% PWM. You will still be hitting close to 60kmh GPS speed (I use -13% speed reduction). Freestyler implementation would start beeping first and initiate a slow tiltback which then became more prominent as you continued to push. Then you could surf the tiltback on a beeping wheel and all is good. You can do the same on Begode firmware but a heavy acceleration into tiltback could feel sharp. Still we rarely do sharp accelerations to 80kmh.

Thats perfect info re the EX30 Mike, many thanks for that. And yes, you make sense to try the PWM alarm at a low setting first to get a feel for the tiltback.

And the Sherman was 76%, interesting. I thought it was around 70. I think I only ever beeped it once and pooed my pants so I never got much experience of it 

 

[InfiniteWheelie]

@t0me Yes, but the problem is that's where the suspension goes.

[Rawnei]

@Jason McNeil multiple people now reporting that PWM reporting on the Lynx seems to be out of place and lower than it should be, any chance you guys could look into it or ask LeaperKim engineers to take a look?

[Ronin Ryder]

3 hours ago, Rawnei said:

@Jason McNeil multiple people now reporting that PWM reporting on the Lynx seems to be out of place and lower than it should be, any chance you guys could look into it or ask LeaperKim engineers to take a look?

A topic i've explored deeply back in November when i received the Lynx demo. The pwm value used by the wheel for its safety checks isn't the one available on the controller of the mb (this one being incorrect), which is traditionally what db uses. I have escalated this to Linnea Leaperkim, working in collaboration with the Darknessbot dev. Leaperkim received that concern, gave me a cryptic explanation and never did anything about it! 😉

For my tests, at that time, I resolved myself to use the wheel's beeps and pwm titlback instead, not great, but better than nothing. 

The same issue happens with Begode's wheels under magnetic weakening. However I'm hearing that Begode will publish the true PWM soon. 

Edited March 28 by Ronin Ryder

[JZT-Colorado]

On 3/27/2024 at 2:39 AM, t0me said:

This is what I'd like to see...   Something allowing for them to be narrower in the middle.    Pads can adapt.   
EUC's can be longer.    The space in front and behind our legs can be wider.    
Our natural stances are wider at our feet than at our knee's.    So EUC's can be wider at the bottom than at the top too (what I'm thinking would be achieved with the battery boxes at an angle like that).

great ideas!  @LeaperKim, are you listening?  I'd also be really curious to see if the lowering of the center of gravity (thinner at top) would help stability?

[JZT-Colorado]

16 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I am definitely liking it and it is pretty much a perfect wheel except for the insanely screwed up alarms and dynamic tiltback.

... the good news is that this is all software updatable.

[Ronin Ryder]

35 minutes ago, JZT-Colorado said:

great ideas!  @LeaperKim, are you listening?  I'd also be really curious to see if the lowering of the center of gravity (thinner at top) would help stability?

It helps 💯

[daniel1234]

Seems to me that "high speed mode" allows to push more power from Lynx even at lower speeds, according to not correct EUC world. 

Does anybody know what that high-speed mode is in technical terms? Seem to me, it bumps max phase current with field weakening. 

I have already 1k km on 50E Lynx,  it can go aprox. 70 km 40km/h+ with 80 percent of battery  / 20 left( high speed on + low battery off).
The range could be better but so far it rides without any service needed as taken from the box.  Begode should learn from this. 

I am curious how many more KM I can ride before something breaks (that moment must come with every EUC:D). What is your mileage guys?
 

Edited March 28 by daniel1234

[Rawnei]

39 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

Seems to me that "high speed mode" allows to push more power from Lynx even at lower speeds, according to not correct EUC world. 

Does anybody know what that high-speed mode is in technical terms? Seem to me, it bumps max phase current with field weakening. 

I have already 1k km on 50E Lynx,  it can go aprox. 70 km 40km/h+ with 80 percent of battery  / 20 left( high speed on + low battery off).
The range could be better but so far it rides without any service needed as taken from the box.  Begode should learn from this. 

I am curious how many more KM I can ride before something breaks (that moment must come with every EUC:D). What is your mileage guys?
 

Don't know where you got that from? High speed mode is field weakening, simple explanation it trades more current for higher speeds at the end of the speed curve, has no effect at lower speeds.

[t0me]

19 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

@t0me Yes, but the problem is that's where the suspension goes.

Yeah I know,  I was theorising either a different suspension system or angled centre fork type shocks.    Can kinda make out what I was theorising at the time - dual shocks,  above the tyre front and rear.    1-1 rather than multiplier linkage,  but yeah,  its nowhere near a formed concept there.     

 

17 hours ago, Rawnei said:

@Jason McNeil multiple people now reporting that PWM reporting on the Lynx seems to be out of place and lower than it should be, any chance you guys could look into it or ask LeaperKim engineers to take a look?

Which setting is it Rawnei?    What have you got yours set for?

[daniel1234]

9 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Don't know where you got that from? High speed mode is field weakening, simple explanation it trades more current for higher speeds at the end of the speed curve, has no effect at lower speeds.

I just played random with settings. With high speed on EUC world show I can pull(accelerate) 7 KW up to hill. Without it let me go 4,5 KW up the same hill. Wheel accelerates faster to 50 km/h. Pedals don't fight back I can ride 100 percent hard mode as on begode.

Find the closest steep hill try it yourself. I dont get it .... I had same assumption as you have. I used field weakening in VESC onewheel -that why I am asking if it does something else. 

 

[Rawnei]

4 hours ago, t0me said:

Which setting is it Rawnei?    What have you got yours set for?

Not sure what you mean, the point was that PWM reporting is off, as an example if you connect to an app it will reach 100% PWM in the app before top speed is even reached, eventually speed will also stop increasing while wheel keeps spinning before cut off, it's liked there is a cap on reported values, it doesn't scale correctly, if you do the same on low battery (for example 30% battery charge) then values look more correct.

And then you begin to wonder if the onboard beeps and tiltback is working correctly, something is bugged in the firmware and need to be investigated by LeaperKim.

All these things are important for safety.

1 hour ago, daniel1234 said:

I just played random with settings. With high speed on EUC world show I can pull(accelerate) 7 KW up to hill. Without it let me go 4,5 KW up the same hill. Wheel accelerates faster to 50 km/h. Pedals don't fight back I can ride 100 percent hard mode as on begode.

Find the closest steep hill try it yourself. I dont get it .... I had same assumption as you have. I used field weakening in VESC onewheel -that why I am asking if it does something else. 

 

While I am super skeptical to you observations I will test it.

[Mike Sacristan]

On 3/27/2024 at 11:37 PM, Planemo said:

Thats perfect info re the EX30 Mike, many thanks for that. And yes, you make sense to try the PWM alarm at a low setting first to get a feel for the tiltback.

And the Sherman was 76%, interesting. I thought it was around 70. I think I only ever beeped it once and pooed my pants so I never got much experience of it 

 

My pleasure! We gotta stay safe out there.  

Plenty of Sherman riders would ride it past the beeps haha. That is the problem with setting it so low. There is 24% more fun to be had!

[Mike Sacristan]

Remember this clip?

Obviously it's limited to 125.  It's not. It just discards values over 125kmh.
I did a lift test at 137V yesterday which is a little over half battery. The lift speed was 125kmh still. With high speed mode off it was 100kmh which does not match either.

Leaperkim: "Let's just squish values over 125kmh to 125 and while we're at it let's set the 100% PWM to match the 125 and discard any PWM values above 100."

Sebastian Shaw: "Adapt to this."

    

All they have to do really is let the 125 be 168 for 151V.
At 137V the value is still higher than 125. More like 145.

PWM should become accurate as you get to lower battery with the lift speed getting under 125.

The beeper probably has dedicated code using 168 as the baseline.

 

 

[Rawnei]

13 hours ago, daniel1234 said:

I just played random with settings. With high speed on EUC world show I can pull(accelerate) 7 KW up to hill. Without it let me go 4,5 KW up the same hill. Wheel accelerates faster to 50 km/h. Pedals don't fight back I can ride 100 percent hard mode as on begode.

Find the closest steep hill try it yourself. I dont get it .... I had same assumption as you have. I used field weakening in VESC onewheel -that why I am asking if it does something else. 

 

So it would make no sense for wheel to draw different powers with high speed mode on or off since the power demand comes from you riding it, but to honor your observation I did a test up a steep grassy hill at controlled slow speed with High Speed mode ON twice and High Speed mode OFF twice, I felt no difference in power delivery and there is no tangible difference to be seen in the logs:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y2v7kmopYEgSY82yNoFgFqxZQpSj7k42gxDuVrUz_WM/edit?usp=sharing

I hope we can put this hypotheses to rest that High Speed mode would somehow affect low end torque.

Edited March 29 by Rawnei

[Forwardnbak]

I also felt no difference in low end torque playing with HS on or off.

I haven’t trusted the stats I’m getting from darknessbot on the Lynx yet. I also found I was hitting high PWM on DB but had no warnings from the wheel. 

[Mike Sacristan]

13 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

I also felt no difference in low end torque playing with HS on or off.

I haven’t trusted the stats I’m getting from darknessbot on the Lynx yet. I also found I was hitting high PWM on DB but had no warnings from the wheel. 

I have seen your latest vids. Great stuff and impressive speeds!

Today was the first time I hit the beeps on the Lynx.

+6C. 75kg riding weight.
Wheel speed 76.5kmh 140V sagged down to 132V.
PWM was 88%.
Lift speed was 88.7kmh.

I also did a range test and rode it down to 120V. At that voltage it would quickly sag down to 115v when doing 43kmh at close to 70% PWM.
There was no point in pushing it any faster than that.

Total distance was 87km wheel reported. Typical for a 2664Wh wheel and my riding style + cold.

I also did some skate park stuff. The kickstand hit when I jumped a spine. This could be also be troublesome in some technical off-road involving large rocks and drops.
The skate park was pretty hilarious though since I could do my normal jumps almost entirely standing straight (expect the spine which is a bit more demanding).