Leaperkim Lynx 2700wh: 151V, 20" tire, suspension, 89lb

[JZT-Colorado]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

I am using the stock knobby tire.

I am not sure what makes the S22 not wobble.

I have tried high and low peddle heights, and no wobbles.

I have tried low and high tire pressures, and no wobbles.

I have tried pedals forwarding tilting and backward tilting calibration, and no wobbles.

I have tried various firmware settings. Again, no wobbles.

Note that on my V12 and Abrams, the above changes can affect wobbles tendencies.

I even tried all kinds of foot placement and pads setup, and no wobbles.

Additionally, I remounted the pedals so it is front-biased. Again no wobbles.

Super interesting.

If @LeaperKim is listening... (or maybe @Jason McNeil can whisper in their ears?), it would be more than great if they spent a few R&D cycles on this issue, dissecting what geometries cause or reduce wobbles, and to make it a primary design initiative to make upcoming wheels more safe by making them MORE STABLE, yeah?

[CrabChampion]

I tried the Lynx both knobby and street tire and realized man, the stock tires are garbage. The knobby is pretty much what you expect. The classic sherman knobby kenda tire that most people are familiar with. Its ok, but the taller height of the Lynx makes it feel less stable for sure. Its still predictable however.

The stock k340 street tire however? Man that tire is awful. Most of the local guys here their street tire wasnt seated perfectly so it would wobble above 40kmh. Also the kenda k340 is pretty flimsy and lightweight. It doesnt have that gyroscopic stability that you often get with other street tires have a nice return to center when you're carving at speed. I can see why kuji preferred the knobby in his original sherman knobby vs street video. Many of the local lynx owners swapped their lynx street tire to the michelin pilot street 2 and its a worlds difference. Much more stable, but still nimble when you need it to be. It just has that return to center that is predictable and great for high speed street riding

[novazeus]

and then there were 2. 

here's my honest opinion.

suspension wise, the 66lb is like my s22 with 750lb spring

the 70lb is like my s22 with 900lb spring

the v13's suspensions are better than both.

u don't buy a lynx for it's suspension, although the suspension does affect handling, i think i prefer the 70lb because it's tighter but the 66lb is easier to drive. 

u buy the lynx for it's power to weight ratio, just like shibby said in wrongways latest video. 

i just came off another ride i didn't video and the wind was so strong, i had to tuck and do a mj lean and i was going downhill. 

when i do crash, it will probably be wind that caused it. it howls coming across my open fields.

i think jason is  sending a black pedal drop for this new one. can't wait to get hou's forward mounting backplate.

this is the way i ride them btw. stock pedals, no vicious tape needed. no pads. no problems.

 

and they all fit nice and i don't really worry about condensation with the s22's or the lynxes on their faces.

it's a good start. all firmware updated. these two wheels do have the best batteries i've ever seen as far as voltage and being perfectly balanced. jason had it at 97% delivered. pumped the tire up to 38psi.

here's the stripped down lynx weight, how i ride it.

[o u euc 2]

19 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

From your experience does the Lynx suffer more wobbles than your other wheels?

19 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

 

It just comes on so quick and violent, especially going downhill, and as soon as you ease up, or brake.

I think it's because the battery packs are so narrow, and set above the axle, or maybe a little below when mounted.

I believe it needs more weight and width in front and back, from front to back, and lower.

This is best as a trail wheel, where being light and high off the ground shines. Especially if you're bigger. I'm only 5'6", 175lbs.

If you want to ride on the highway a lot, I suggest a different wheel, lower to the ground, and made for the street.

But that's me. I'm 50, and not as athletic as I used to be.

I bought some O'Neal motorcycle boots for stiff soles.

Damn! I don't think I'll break my foot in these. They're stiff as trees!

I just centered the boot, and added the pads to it.

If that's right, I won't have room for my braking pads.

Anyways these are my new boots. Gonna take some getting used to.

Edited March 25 by o u euc 2

[o u euc 2]

18 hours ago, JZT-Colorado said:

• Less air in the tire... especially if you're a lighter rider.
• Lower the pedals with aftermarket pedal hangers.
• Switch to a knobby.
• Taller, stiffer boots.
• Offset foot placement.
• Never stop carving... although this advice is the least relevant because if you're caught off-guard in a downhill wobble situation, then it's already too late and you're f*ckd.

Great advice.

I'm receiving the lower pedals tomorrow.

I got stiffer boots, and will be lowering my tire pressure as well.

I got that email from ewheels about not running tire pressure below 35psi, and took it to heart.

I'm going to try between 24 and 26psi, and see how that does.

I have the street tire too.

I don't want to change it, but I will if I need to after these adjustments.

[Rawnei]

23 minutes ago, o u euc 2 said:

It just comes on so quick and violent, especially going downhill, and as soon as you ease up, or brake.

I think it's because the battery packs are so narrow, and set above the axle, or maybe a little below when mounted.

I believe it needs more weight and width in front and back, from front to back, and lower.

This is best as a trail wheel, where being light and high off the ground shines. Especially if you're bigger. I'm only 5'6", 175lbs.

If you want to ride on the highway a lot, I suggest a different wheel, lower to the ground, and made for the street.

But that's me. I'm 50, and not as athletic as I used to be.

I bought some O'Neal motorcycle boots for stiff soles.

Damn! I don't think I'll break my foot in these. They're stiff as trees!

I just centered the boot, and added the pads to it.

If that's right, I won't have room for my braking pads.

Anyways these are my new boots. Gonna take some getting used to.

Those boots + those rear pads being so low almost at your ankle might actually cause wobbles, maybe you need a fairing plate for that setup so you can have better pad placement?

[o u euc 2]

6 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Those boots + those rear pads being so low almost at your ankle might actually cause wobbles, maybe you need a fairing plate for that setup so you can have better pad placement?

Yeah. It's not how they were set up before.

I had the brake pads way up high, but it looks like with these boots, they might not fit.

I had the most room down low like that.

Hopefully when I actually ride again, they'll be further forward.

I thought about a fairing plate too, but the handle brackets stick out on the sides, so it's not flat across the sides, but it can be overcome somehow.

[daniel1234]

My Lynx wobbles as well above 65km/h and downhill on-turns. Even with pedal drop ... pedal drop helped just a little bit. I don't like what the balancing algorithm does, you need to push so much on the wheel at those speeds that you need to overlean and make it unbalanced, causing wobbles for me.  When lynx wobbles it is "ankle breaking" moment for me.

As well breaking and turning at once does weird pedal behavior. Downhill I can either break or turn, doing both trows me out. Even after 900 km I am not sure how to tilt and break at the same time properly yet. I still need to exercise my legs/ankles, or this wheel will break them 

Be careful guys, I had already few close calls. Not sure if shinko/michellin tyre would woable less, I think it is "feature" of this wheel. 

Edited March 25 by daniel1234

[novazeus]

https://www.bridgestonemotorcycletires.com/en-us/tips-and-support/bridgestones-guide-for-proper-inflation-of-motorcycle-tires

[t0me]

Finally got something in that can handle upto 160v to allow me to test the charge ports.    Can read the battery voltage,  but it can't supply a load.   So they're not hot ports like some (all?) begodes have,  and the charge ports won't be able to be used as a power source :-(

I ordered in some 160v step downs hoping to make some usb charge ports from one of the lynx's charge ports.  No such luck. 

Now you don't have to risk blowing up your Lynx to find out ;-)

[Seba]

On 3/24/2024 at 11:23 AM, Chriull said:

Leaperkim as begode did only measure battery voltage and motor current. So there is (was) no usable power value to be obtained.

Don't know if they already provide battery current to get some real power figures?

There are separate motor phase current and battery current fields in the Lynx data frame. More, there are also battery current fields for left and right battery module separately.

Definitely Leaperkim is listening to the voice of the community. First, they have upgraded the communication protocol and added CRC checksums so that transmission errors are eliminated. Then they added battery current measurement so that power and power consumption data can be measured too. While in some newer Begode wheels there's a field that seems to be a DC current, this needs to be verified as from my tests on Master current values seemed to be unreliable. Also, they still use old and unreliable protocol, making it impossible to detect/avoid invalid data.

Edited March 25 by Seba

[Rawnei]

18 minutes ago, Seba said:

There are separate motor phase current and battery current fields in the Lynx data frame. More, there are also battery current fields for left and right battery module separately.

Definitely Leaperkim is listening to the voice of the community. First, they have upgraded the communication protocol and added CRC checksums so that transmission errors are eliminated. Then they added battery current measurement so that power and power consumption data can be measured too. While in some newer Begode wheels there's a field that seems to be a DC current, this needs to be verified as from my tests on Master current values seemed to be unreliable. Also, they still use old and unreliable protocol, making it impossible to detect/avoid invalid data.

Any ETA when we will see cell values in EUC World? 🤩

[Seba]

16 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Any ETA when we will see cell values in EUC World? 🤩

It will be included in EUC World 2.44 update that should be available within next 5-10 days.

[novazeus]

we only have one and it's the mostly akin to the front motorcycle tire, imho.

https://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=074&Set=073-108

[stizl]

On 3/24/2024 at 11:38 AM, JZT-Colorado said:

Don't get me wrong, the Lynx is an absolutely fantastic all-rounder wheel, but it probably slightly unfairly overshadows its extremely capable little brother, the Patton.

Yes, this! I am also fortunate enough to have both. The Patton is pretty much as good as the Lynx for most use cases except for 35mph+ cruising or for plowing through big holes, it clearly smokes the Lynx from a dead stop up to about 15mph, and is more fun and maneuverable on technical trails.  

This is especially so after putting the 70lb “progressive” springs in the Patton (no more bottom outs) and after swapping in a Shinko 241 (good on street, great off road, and way more planted than the stock Patton or Lynx knobby when riding off-camber trails). 

I love my Lynx for an all-arounder and for all-day urban/suburban epics or long dirt/gravel roads, but if you ride off road, then the 70lb Patton may honestly be the best bang for the buck out there, especially with the newer 50S packs (which I don’t have).

Also, I haven’t had any issues with either wheel besides smoking a Batch 1 Patton controller descending a steep hill right after a full charge (my fault, thanks Jason!, also corrected by LK on newer batches), but from what I’ve seen to-date, the Patton is the more reliable of the two. 

[JZT-Colorado]

4 minutes ago, stizl said:

the Patton is the more reliable of the two. 

how do you mean?

[novazeus]

here's my tire plan for my lynxes. do nothing for now because i'll only use them on the ranch, just enough pavement to get to my pastures.

however, someday, i might want a street lynx but idk if i'll live that long to have paved multiuse paths in here. and zooming around humans is a good way to transfer ur wealth to their relatives and lawyers after u hit one. i'd love to race one around a closed course. 

the lynx for whatever reason, methinks tire, is terrible carrying packages. the v13 is a dream come true for hauling and just plain ol comfort. i had another padkage about dark. put on my helmet, was wearing my padded shorts, no knee stuff, and naked leg against the v13 naked shell, with the thin neoprene waist trimmer belt, perfect comfort. took it, grabbed 24 cans of salmon for Bob and headed back p, no pain, no strain, on that great michelin 90/80 r16 city grip 2.

so before even thinking about any tire changes, i gotta see how i fare thru the seasons. i figure the v13 is gonna be tested this summer for it's weatherproof rating. and to be sure, i wanna see how these different tires perform as the grass grows and the soil gets moist(hopefully). i feel like these soft kenda knobbies are digging nicely for me and not using them on pavement, plus, pretty skinny and less clothing in summer. 

i've got jason's s22pro 40t battery to put together and as part of my tire plan, put a pirelli angel  80/80 r14 on it and see how i like it. 

i like both my lynxes. both tires at 38psi. no pre load no rebound no dampner on either, i doubt i could tell the difference on my ranch. rode them back to back, asking myself the question, "if u get a third, which one?" and idk. they are both amazing. if hou's forward backplate works as it should, they'll be really purrfect.

oh, yeah, proud of my clock faces finally sticking. duct tape. and all soc percentages are set.

 

Edited March 26 by novazeus

[t0me]

On 3/1/2024 at 8:30 PM, Rawnei said:

 

Quiet, an adjustable fast charger is not going to be quiet, I ordered a new fan for my stock charger to see if I can make it more quiet.

 

Hi Rawnei,   how'd you go with the fan?   What voltage is it?

[daniel1234]

On 3/24/2024 at 8:11 PM, Cyberwolf said:

I'm having some real trust issues with that Shinko on anything but perfectly dry and clean pavement/concrete, and looking at alternatives (including going back to the original brand/type knobby, if need be).

Every tyre when is new, slips on wet surfaces, since of oxidation of the top layer of rubber.

Burn that tyre down a little! - I could sit for years at storage areas. Shinko have good rubber. 

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, t0me said:

Hi Rawnei,   how'd you go with the fan?   What voltage is it?

 

[Duccen]

On 3/24/2024 at 9:20 PM, Rawnei said:

I'm well over the weight rating, riding with 36ish PSI on the Kenda 262, no wobbles or other problems.

Same thing on Sherman S.

Curious of what speeds you went with no wobbles.

[Rawnei]

15 minutes ago, Duccen said:

Curious of what speeds you went with no wobbles.

Around 70kmh.

I feel like a parrot at this point, wobbles comes down a lot to your pad setup and stance, asymmetrical stance helps, optimal pad setup helps a lot.

[Mike Sacristan]

Yesterday I received my 50S Lynx with 62lbs suspension.
@Rawnei made me some beautiful custom footlock expanders.

We went for an evening ride. I tried the PWM based tiltback.
Kenda stock knobby at 26 PSI (riding weight of 75kg) (I will raise to 28PSI in 100km when the tire is less slick)
Dampening to zero.
High speed mode on.

Wheel reported speeds:
50% tiltback and I got tilted back at around 43kmh.
70% tiltback and I got tilted back at a little over 60kmh.
80% tiltback at 50% battery earlier today and at 60kmh. Showing 85% PWM in Darknessbot.
I did not hit any beeps of course. That is way too slow. My Patton could do that at half battery and 80% PWM.

It seems like even internal PWM reporting used for tiltback is incorrect.
I can hit over 70kmh on the Patton at 80% PWM.

Lynx tiltback feels less subtle than Patton. There was not the slightest wobble in any scenarion.
I tried 0.6 forward tilt which in the app is 0.6 degrees but in reality 1 degree.
I then tried 1 degree app forward tilt which turned out to be 2 degrees.

After my ride home today I set it back to flat because I felt that braking was compromised and required too much body movement in comparison to what was required to accelerate and maintain high speed.

I tried the softer pedal modes and they were some crazy floaty boaty feeling. I ended up sticking to strong. 70 is still soft and 80 is more predictable.

When this wheel was announced there was talk of it having a lift speed of 165kmh but electronically limited to 125kmh.
I bet the PWM from 165/125 is missing. Which would mean PWM is off by ~30%.

Lynx would be 12.5% faster than the Patton at 126V because of increased tire circumference.
A Patton at 151v would be 20% faster.
So in total 32.5% faster. Which is the same difference between 165/125.

EX30 would be 12.5% faster than Patton at 126v.
At 134v it would be 6% faster.
Total 18.5% faster.
Provided similar field weakening with 15% rotation increase.

Something something napkin math. EUCs are not a mathematical formula but they are also not magic.

I get 1kmh GPS speed per 1% PWM on my EX30 without field weakening. 80kmh at full battery and 64kmh at 10% battery.
I would expect 1,125 more from the Lynx.
Since I hit 60kmh today at 85% PWM app reported and 80% PWM tiltback internally reported... we can recalculate with Patton.
Which would actually give me the same speed at a bit less than 80% PWM.
My PWM * 0,68 would be 58% which would be more correct.

I have now raised my tiltback to 88% so see if I hit that or the beeps first.
I would rather do it at low battery so I don't have to blast at 90kmh listening for a beep while wondering if I am being tilted back or not.

PWM scaling / correction won't work because Leaperkim does not use values over 100.
So if you set Darknessbot to -30% PWM correction then 70% PWM will be the max value.
I did a lift test at 133V now and it reported 124.7kmh wheel speed.
And so I would expect to ride it at 33% of that which would be 81.84kmh wheel reported.
Which would still be slower than my EX30 at that voltage without field weakening.

Or if we go the other way... Patton * 1.125 * 1.2 = 62 * 1.125 * 1.2 = 83.7kmh. So not far off.

Give or take a napkin.
 

[Mike Sacristan]

Now let's talk about the ride feel.

No wobbles, no tramlining, nice and agile, carves nicely at 50kmh.
Not so bad in heavy wind. Easy mount and dismount.

Originally I was thinking of lowering the pedals but I was very positively surprised yesterday.

The pedals are okay but could be a little more grippy for situations that require it like small jumps, sends, etc.
I use Custom EUC Power Pads made by Frank as they are my go to for high speed cruising while maintaining agility.

Burnouts on gravel are fun to do on the hard mode. Soft mode eats up torque and tilts the wheel.

When trolleying it you can really feel how nice and smooth everything is.

Climbing is entertaining since it has great low end torque so there is no perceptible power loss during climbs giving a bit of an escalator feeling.

I am tempted to try a softer pedal mode and with the pedals tilted back a bit. Then acceleration would tilt me to level or perhaps go to positive forward tilt.
Braking might be interesting though!

[Planemo]

2 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I have now raised my tiltback to 88% so see if I hit that or the beeps first.

Have things moved on now from the old skool Begode/Gotway/Veteran 'beeps @ 80%' thing then?

In fact I thought I read somewhere that the OG Sherman had beeps at 70%, never tested it myself though.

I know this is a Lynx thread but I set the PWM tiltback on my EX30 to 80% thinking that it should start tilting at about the same time it starts beeping. Is that not the case then?! Asking cos I know you have an EX30 and the Veteran software was very similar for a long time..