Leaperkim Lynx 2700wh: 151V, 20" tire, suspension, 89lb

[t0me]

ps.   Happy to recommend the CE200 (due for retail release in April I believe).    Adds "smarts" to any charger.    Fine control of the output voltage/current/time/wh,   with wh,  and w input and output shown.  I've been sent one to evaluate and give feedback on.

[t0me]

I got to 4% on this ride.     

2363w divided by 0.96 is pretty close to 2500w.   That's why I'm thinking that perhaps we have 200wh that's being held in reserve.

 

Low battery mode doesn't reset after charging,   need to turn it off again through the screen.

[daniel1234]

7 hours ago, t0me said:

So,  I'm collecting battery use data,  and finally have a device that can measure WH.

25wh/km is the average so far (rounded).     The wheel appears to consider 2500wh to be 100% via the screen/app.    200wh seems to be a reserve.

At 10% in normal mode,  it will beep over a certain amount of power that I haven't determined yet but barely enough to get past 20km/hr.
Put it in low battery mode and it seems happy to go over 30km/hr down to low,   I assume 0% but I only took it to 4% and at that I wasn't game to try going any faster.

Can anyone else concur about the reserve Wh from their own figures/experience?   Or their Wh/km figure.    I rode 93km yesterday.   I'm at its max weight limit.   Had a slight headwind,  and was riding 40km+  often faster.    

25wh/km - I am getting a similar average figure from EUC world. But I can smoke up my 50e battery fast once I am riding 55 km/h and more (what I should not do, but is so hard to resist).  I can get 80 km out of my wheel max.   I hear that 50S results are much better. Kinda regretting that I didn't wait for 50S.

50 km/h+ is 2500w, 55kmh-3000w, 65-4000 ... I didn't push it further yet.   4kw is around 1,5C discharge(still in spec) for mine 50E pack, so I have tiltback at 65, and beeps at 60.

I tried Friends 50S 66lb:
- Once I riden 800 km on Lynx with a pedal drop, I can't ride the original pedal height. 
- The middle preload 66lb is similar to my 70lb with no preload. With everything else the same. Definitely, the out-of-box experience is awesome on both lynxes I saw so far. Best of all manufacturers so far.
- Seems 50S is a little snappier on acceleration. Half of the voltage sag.

I think I can keep 70lb 50e, not having 50S is a bummer but not a dealbreaker. At least I am not pushing for more speed. Batteries die fast anyway.
 

Edited March 24 by daniel1234

[t0me]

52 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

25wh/km - I am getting a similar average figure from EUC world. But I can smoke up my 50e battery fast once I am riding 55 km/h and more (what I should not do, but is so hard to resist).  I can get 80 km out of my wheel max.   I hear that 50S results are much better. Kinda regretting that I didn't wait for 50S.

50 km/h+ is 2500w, 55kmh-3000w, 65-4000 ... I didn't push it further yet.   4kw is around 1,5C discharge(still in spec) for mine 50E pack, so I have tiltback at 65, and beeps at 60.

I tried Friends 50S 66lb:
- Once I riden 800 km on Lynx with a pedal drop, I can't ride the original pedal height. 
- The middle preload 66lb is similar to my 70lb. Definitely, the out-of-box experience is awesome on both lynxes I saw so far. Best of all manufacturers so far.
- Seems 50S is a little snappier on acceleration. Half of the voltage sag.

I think I can keep 70lb 50e, not having 50S is a bummer but not a dealbreaker. At least I am not pushing for more speed. Batteries die fast anyway.
 

How did you log the w/speed figures,  was that in EUC World too?

[onkeldanuel]

1 hour ago, daniel1234 said:

The middle preload 66lb is similar to my 70lb.

Compared to your 70lb with 0 preload applied, right?

[daniel1234]

6 minutes ago, t0me said:

How did you log the w/speed figures,  was that in EUC World too?

yes values showed by EUC world ... we know they are not always accurate.

About that wh no. you measured :  Charging is not 100 percent efficient process, and passive balancing is the burning power of high cells as heat on a resistor. I am always sceptical about those power meters, and their accuracy. As you see value is off ...

[t0me]

3 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

yes values showed by EUC world ... we know they are not always accurate.

About that wh no. you measured :  Charging is not 100 percent efficient process, and passive balancing is the burning power of high cells as heat on a resistor. I am always sceptical about those power meters, and their accuracy. As you see value is off ...

My wh was measured by a CE200 Pidzoom charger enhancer.    I've got a wall plug coming (slow boat) that should also be able to give me a wh figure (pre charger) to compare to.  I'll report back if there's significant variance between them.

 

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, daniel1234 said:

50 km/h+ is 2500w, 55kmh-3000w, 65-4000 ... I didn't push it further yet.   4kw is around 1,5C discharge(still in spec) for mine 50E pack, so I have tiltback at 65, and beeps at 60.
 

Leaperkim as begode did only measure battery voltage and motor current. So there is (was) no usable power value to be obtained.

Don't know if they already provide battery current to get some real power figures?

Otherwise one can estimate the "real output" power by estimating the motor voltage - at max freespin speed (!wo field weaking/HS mode!) it's about battery voltage, below the proportional fraction.

For higher motor currents the power dissipation of the motor coil and the batteries internal resistance adds noteable up to the battery burden.

[o u euc 2]

20 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Good to see it can withstand a 40Mph crash pretty well...

 

Mine has twice, lol.

Only things broke are the back handle brackets the first time, and the seat broke off the second time.

I broke my foot this last time. Hit the ground running at 35mph.

That was ten days ago. I'll be able to ride again soon. I've been on it a few times since, including riding 3 miles back to town after the crash.

Them down hill wobbles catch me off gaurd. ESPECIALLY WHEN TIRED!

I'll be going a little slower downhill from now on, until my muscles get stronger.

I have 550 miles on it.

I'll either get the hang of it, hurt myself bad, or trade it for something with bigger, lower battery boxes to be less wobble prone.

[The Brahan Seer]

@o u euc 2 sorry about your injuries, seems to be a pre-requisite to get unfortunately.

From your experience does the Lynx suffer more wobbles than your other wheels? There is talk that the Lynx creates more wobbles than most. I think it unlikely and is more due to the faster speeds and in some cases lack of skill or experience some riders may have. Although Chooch is very skilled and experienced it shows how easy and quickly it happens.

[techyiam]

16 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Although Chooch is very skilled and experienced it shows how easy and quickly it happens.

For me, if Chooch experienced a death wobble, then most likely the wheel has a wobble tendency.

On a demo Abrams, Chooch experienced a bad braking wobble, which was caught on video. I bought an Abrams, and sure enough I experienced bad braking wobbles.

My V12 can have death wobbles too.

However, I have never experience a wobble of any kind on my S22. I don't have to carve, nor do anything special to keep wobbles at bay. There simply are no wobbles.

[Rawnei]

His pad setup doesn't look optimal, if you are doing demanding things optimal pad setup is crucial, I think it's just a case of slapping pads on the wheel saying "eh it's good enough" then sending it.

[JZT-Colorado]

45 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

@o u euc 2 sorry about your injuries, seems to be a pre-requisite to get unfortunately.

From your experience does the Lynx suffer more wobbles than your other wheels? There is talk that the Lynx creates more wobbles than most. I think it unlikely and is more due to the faster speeds and in some cases lack of skill or experience some riders may have. Although Chooch is very skilled and experienced it shows how easy and quickly it happens.

Yes, I can see the tendency for the Lynx to wobble, but it's also easy to mitigate:

1. Less air in the tire... especially if you're a lighter rider.
2. Lower the pedals with aftermarket pedal hangers.
3. Switch to a knobby.
4. Taller, stiffer boots.
5. Offset foot placement.
6. Never stop carving... although this advice is the least relevant because if you're caught off-guard in a downhill wobble situation, then it's already too late and you're f*ckd.

My recent personal experience is that I was not entirely happy with my Patton with a street tire because it was too wobbly and unstable at speed on the road (less so off-road).  It was slightly better with less air, but I worried about rim damage from curbs and steps.  So I then bought some taller and stiffer boots and that helped, but I still felt slightly unstable at the highest speeds (when you want the most stability), so I swapped the tire for a knobby (the same YuanXing that goes on the V14), and like magic, the wobbles have now disappeared and the Patton has really transformed into a very solid and stable machine.

When I more recently got my Lynx, I started out with the stock knobby and pedal hangers and it's definitely more stable than what I observe in Chooch's videos (he seems to always have and then correct a little bit of oscillation whenever he, "gets off the gas," especially downhill), but I have to say that I still very much have to pay attention at speed, and again I go with the taller stiffer boots when I want to hit higher speeds on-road.  It's not terrible, but I wouldn't call it, "rock solid," but with the above mitigation strategies, it's manageable.

I wasn't really in the market for another wheel after the Patton, but after so many wobble situations on the Patton (before the upgrade to the YX knobby), I ordered the Lynx to see if I could get, "a more stable Patton" -- but honestly, now with the YX tire, it's really stable -- maybe even more stable than the Lynx with its stock Kenda knobby.  I told myself that I'd only keep one and sell the other, but I'm still undecided as I really like the lower profile, higher off-the-line torque, and greater agility of the Patton.  Don't get me wrong, the Lynx is an absolutely fantastic all-rounder wheel, but it probably slightly unfairly overshadows its extremely capable little brother, the Patton.  If the Patton had the lighter weight magnesium parts from the Lynx, the better progressive springs, and the safer BMS, it'd be a slam dunk (for me) for the Patton, as I really appreciate the smaller and more agile profile (it's also easier to get into the trunk of my car, even though it's the same weight as the Lynx, the Lynx is just that little bit bigger than makes it just that much more inconvenient to hoist up over the bumper of my car).  Note that I'm not sending off 10-foot verticals (the Lynx is clearly better at that), or regularly riding over 40 MPH on-road (although the ET-Max would probably be better for that purpose), so take my advice in the right context -- I'm only speaking for my own needs.

All this said, wobbles are something you really need to pay attention to on any wheel, but can be mitigated with the right combination of strategies.

Roll-on!  👊🏼

[JZT-Colorado]

57 minutes ago, techyiam said:

For me, if Chooch experienced a death wobble, then most likely the wheel has a wobble tendency.

On a demo Abrams, Chooch experienced a bad braking wobble, which was caught on video. I bought an Abrams, and sure enough I experienced bad braking wobbles.

My V12 can have death wobbles too.

However, I have never experience a wobble of any kind on my S22. I don't have to carve, nor do anything special to keep wobbles at bay. There simply are no wobbles.

this is interesting.  to what do you attribute the stability of the S22?  what tire does it run?  does it have something to do with the angle of foot/pedal placement?

[PourUC]

6 minutes ago, JZT-Colorado said:

this is interesting.  to what do you attribute the stability of the S22?  what tire does it run?  does it have something to do with the angle of foot/pedal placement?

My S22 is also stable as a rock. The Lynx isn't a nightmare by any stretch in comparison, but it's noticeably less stable. I think it's to do with the wideness of the S22 (it's a bit wider) and the lower capacity batteries are also stored lower down causing the COG to be lower. The pedals are also a tad lower as well.

The Lynx popularised magnesium alloy, but the S22 also uses it, so the top part of the wheel with it's anemic motherboard also helps keep the COG down.

[Paradox]

24 minutes ago, PourUC said:

The Lynx isn't a nightmare by any stretch in comparison, but it's noticeably less stable.

Which tire do you have on your Lynx?  Street or knobby?

[PourUC]

Just now, Paradox said:

Which tire do you have on your Lynx?  Street or knobby?

Stock knobby, the Jiluer nylon one.

It is also flatter than the Lynx which would help alot.

[Paradox]

2 minutes ago, PourUC said:

Stock knobby, the Jiluer nylon one.

This is on the S22?  How about the Lynx?  Kenda knobby?

[PourUC]

3 minutes ago, Paradox said:

This is on the S22?  How about the Lynx?  Kenda knobby?

Yeah Jiluer on the S22, on the Lynx I have the stock knobby, but either because the tyre profile itself is different, or the rim is just narrower (not sure but I think it is), the Lynx tyre is much more rounded.

[Cyberwolf]

3 hours ago, JZT-Colorado said:

...I swapped the tire for a knobby (the same YuanXing that goes on the V14), and like magic, the wobbles have now disappeared and the Patton has really transformed into a very solid and stable machine.

Just curious - aside from feeling more stable, how do you find that YX tire handles on and off-road, or if it gets wet/muddy?

For context - I never noticed any particular stability or wobbling issues with the stock Patton knobby (not counting learning curve and/or rider error; though good boots, Forma Adventure Lows, made a huge difference over all other footwear tried), but it's loud. 

I switched to a Shinko 241, which seems to ride much better on pavement, quieter and more agile, and not too bad on dry dirt/rocks/gravel; however, after 3 seperate instances of some really weird behavior (2 of which were injury-inducing, unexpected, and occured at < 5mph - e.g. walking/jogging speed), I'm having some real trust issues with that Shinko on anything but perfectly dry and clean pavement/concrete, and looking at alternatives (including going back to the original brand/type knobby, if need be).

Edited March 24 by Cyberwolf

[JZT-Colorado]

3 minutes ago, Cyberwolf said:

Just curious - aside from feeling more stable, how do you find that YX tire handles on and off-road, or if it gets wet/muddy?

For context - I never noticed any particular stability issues with the stock Patton knobby (not counting learning curve and/or rider error; though good boots, Forma Adventure Lows, made a huge difference over all other footwear tried), but it's loud. 

I switched to a Shinko 241, which seems to ride much better on pavement, quieter and more agile, and not too bad on dry dirt; however, after 2 seperate instances of some really weird behavior (both of which were injury-inducing, unexpected, and occured at < 5mph - e.g. walking/jogging speed), I'm having some real trust issues with that Shinko on anything but perfectly dry and clean pavement/concrete, and looking at alternatives (including going back to the original brand/type knobby, if need be).

The YX (I don't actually know the model number, as I think it's custom made for the V14) is currently my favorite EUC tire for my purpose, which is dual on/off road go-everywhere and be as stable as possible tire.  I'm not looking for extreme on-road or even off-road performance; rather solid competence and stability wherever I happen to be.  In Colorado it's easy to get surprised by a patch of mud, and I think the YX is more stable on the mud than the stock Kenda K262 that comes on the Lynx, for example.  In fact, I like the YX better than both the Kenda K262 and the Shinko SR241, although I'm still curious about the Shinko SR244 as I've never tried it.  Before I form my final opinions on my Lynx I want to try it with a SR244 -- I'll post here when I do that.

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, JZT-Colorado said:

this is interesting.  to what do you attribute the stability of the S22?  what tire does it run?  does it have something to do with the angle of foot/pedal placement?

I am using the stock knobby tire.

I am not sure what makes the S22 not wobble.

I have tried high and low peddle heights, and no wobbles.

I have tried low and high tire pressures, and no wobbles.

I have tried pedals forwarding tilting and backward tilting calibration, and no wobbles.

I have tried various firmware settings. Again, no wobbles.

Note that on my V12 and Abrams, the above changes can affect wobbles tendencies.

I even tried all kinds of foot placement and pads setup, and no wobbles.

Additionally, I remounted the pedals so it is front-biased. Again no wobbles.

[novazeus]

please look at the tire ratings on the sidewalls. 

the lynx knobby maximum load, rider and wheel, 267 pounds, and that's only if u inflate the tire to maximum cold pressure of 33psi. 

the stock knobby on the s22 is rated for maximum load of 319 pounds, only if u inflate it to 41psi. 

pretty simple really. go read up on the forces on the front tire of a motorcycle. 

if u travel solely on dirt, the dirt absorbs any tire squirm from being overloaded, not so on pavement!

the lynx as sold can only support 267-89=178, but now we have to factor in the forces of downhill braking which some say increase the load by 120%. 

so the lynx would be purrfect if u and all ur gear weighed 148 pounds. because 148 times 1.2 equals the maximum load of 177.6.

ur not gonna find articles on euc tires. the best comparison is the front tire of a street or dirt bike.

[Rawnei]

I'm well over the weight rating, riding with 36ish PSI on the Kenda 262, no wobbles or other problems.

Same thing on Sherman S.

[Cyberwolf]

1 hour ago, JZT-Colorado said:

I'm not looking for extreme on-road or even off-road performance; rather solid competence and stability wherever I happen to be.  In Colorado it's easy to get surprised by a patch of mud, and I think the YX is more stable on the mud than the stock Kenda K262 that comes on the Lynx, for example...

Thanks for the perspective, that's my exact use-case (and locale).

I've had a couple of crazy spills at speed using the stock (Patton) knobby, with nothing beyond minor tears in outer-layer clothing and a little bruising (including of the ego) - and all clearly attributable to rider error, not wobbling;  however, on 3 seperate occasions now,  I've had the Shinko SR241 slip sideways out from under me (at slow speed) in such a way as to (in 2 of the cases) put me on the ground with no ability to step off/away first.  (the 3rd memorable one was able to stay upright). 

Edited March 24 by Cyberwolf