Incredibly bad look for this community.

[Skeptikos]

@Paulo Mesquita Fair enough, I guess there are some advantages to a sprawling free-for-all discussion 😄

[mrelwood]

Nobody in their right mind would read through the whole thread anymore, I think it currently exists as a kind of a semi-live chat for the few of us who actively follow the thread. 

[Sumako]

48 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Until he does, I can explain how I read it. I read no critique in the sentence either. To me it was only stating the fact that EUC rider’s gear up because they acknowledge that there is a risk of crashing despite rider skill and experience. To me it is just describing why we do gear up.

Absolutely. I think it has been clear a few dozen pages ago already that this thread will definitely not reach any kind of conclusion.

 Whoever wishes to start new topics on the mentioned individual points (or any other) are free and encouraged to do so. Moderatively splitting and organizing the existing posts of this thread would do more harm than good, and for a wildly incoherent thread like this it would also be an extremely laborious thing to do.

You know, I’m good with it. I think the placement of the video (ebiker criticizing armored up EUC riders, but not for being armored up) associated with his post prepped me to expect a negative intemperate meaning. Anyhow, I’m over it. Thanks!

[Daley1]

Came back to this thread and find it has nothing to do with the original post.Time to close it and or delete it?

[.....]

4 minutes ago, Daley1 said:

Came back to this thread and find it has nothing to do with the original post.Time to close it and or delete it?

Nothing new about that. I'm still being entertained tho, much better than the television pushing drugs and sex on me during commercial breaks.. I say, let it ride and maybe within the next 1000 pages, we will find the answer to 'life, the universe, everything.'

[Sumako]

29 minutes ago, Daley1 said:

Came back to this thread and find it has nothing to do with the original post.Time to close it and or delete it?

Admins, let’s close this thread. End this thread, end this thread, end this thread!!!!!

[.....]

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

Admins, let’s close this thread. End this thread, end this thread, end this thread!!!!!

Or... you could always...

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Rywokast]

idiots like this piss me off beyond belief... i dont care if youre the best euc rider on the planet NO ONE knows exactly how an unsuspecting pedestrian or kid is gonna act when they drive around like raving lunatics down crowded streets, so insanely irresponsible and the reason so many people hate and lobby against PEVs... and then you are stupid enough to post it onto youtube for the world to see the evidence of your lawlessness! completely baffles me

[Tasku]

8 hours ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

Every time I go out riding my wife says " don't get killed"

My wife says: "Watch out for the elderly folk.."
We both worked among em and we joke about it, but as "stereotype" they can be sometimes the worst. Refering to some "Crusaders" against everything moving faster than they do, that particular public opinion seems important to community. All new things go through the shredder of public "piss and poo throwing". Strange enough the opinions of those who do not ride, seems to/or could matter more than ours in the end.

Riding any PEV seems to come with responsibility. This whole post is full of arguments that can be used as "weapons" against EUC-devices and rider behaviour as whole, as others/some could view this as "odd-thing". There are plenty of industry out there who also wanna prove a point  that these should be banned, just as it is in Holland. The country has perfect infrastructure for this device yet banned. Why? Because none defended against arguments like "Not safe, unregulated, marginal". The companies that keep building parking space for bicycles were happy. The ton of lobbying force shaked hands and were like, "That was so easy, like taking a lolly from baby.. These EUC-fellas got no-one talking for em." Put your money where your mouth is, (the money you cannot get insurance maybe?), spend it to lobbying force toward your EUC. Group up and try to get voice out there, that would help your cause, just my thoughts reading this topic.

I for one think some rule knowledge is a must. And my viewpoint comes from my local area where anyone, without any prior knowledge can get to bicycling-lane and ride. And as these lanes get crowded the risks increase them being narrow and poorly maintained. The speed difference of multiple travelers also increase change of accidents. Crossing areas are potential risk to lose life. Things get fixed but it takes time, meanwhile we gotta live with the bubblegum fixes in place.

[sidderke]

18 minutes ago, Tasku said:

There are plenty of industry out there who also wanna prove a point  that these should be banned, just as it is in Holland. The country has perfect infrastructure for this device yet banned. Why? Because none defended against arguments like "Not safe, unregulated, marginal".

Don't forget that in 2018, an accident happened in Holland with a Stint Oss, where kids got killed. I think they never found out exactly what went wrong, but it made changes in the Holland laws that made PEV's illegal. Still crazy that one accident in 2018 made these laws (or non-laws) still possible. I guess your lobby arguments are probably true as well, but the whole Holland situation should be an eye-opener to everyone in every country that sometimes, one big accident with a lot of media attention, can lead to years of laws that make riding a PEV impossible. If I'm not mistaken, today or tomorrow there is a big protest in the Nederlands to make PEV's possible. 

[Tasku]

As worldwide community there would be enough of us to fund any singular battle to get us heard for sure. Just what I been calculating.

If you take one local area and try to organize the few, that is a different case.

Also protesting is not bad, I cheer for em to be clear (just doubt it not being alone effective). In Holland they have been adviced not to bring any device there or they will be taken away. So no riding in the protest, as they did last time?

Edited July 10, 2021 by Tasku

[sidderke]

1 minute ago, Tasku said:

Also protesting is not bad, just not alone effective. In Holland they have been adviced not to bring any device there or they will be taken away. So no riding in the protest, as they did last time?

I don't know, I live in Belgium and I heard about the protest in 2 Dutch videos about PEV's but I don't know more specifics. I am curious how big it will be though, and if anything will come from it. 

[Planemo]

8 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 I say, let it ride and maybe within the next 1000 pages, we will find the answer to 'life, the universe, everything.'

I'll save you a 1000 pages.

The answer is 42.

You're welcome.

[winterwheel]

For me the discussion is less about the future of wheeling and more about the place of this group in it. It was a great resource in the early days, but now the vitriol and hostility that are presented when one has a contrary view are over the top. 

The idea that people here are changing the world of euc riding by criticising videos and anyone who isn't equally enraged by their existence of those videos is, for me, laughable. Everyone's going to do what they're going to do. The people who make the videos, the people who don't mind those videos, the people who associate with riders who appear in those videos, and anyone who doesn't want to spend their time dealing with the possibility of being called an idiot, wanker, psychopath, or drunken uncle will just go elsewhere.

And it's not just the videos. Someone above had the temerity to say something about gear that might not conform to a specific viewpoint and the 'community' as it exists here basically threatened to go off on that person if he or she tried to back it up in any way.

I guess that's the goal, to drive away people who don't vocally subscribe to a specific ethos. Maybe that's the inevitable end point of every site like this I don't know.

In it's time this place was a fantastic resource to help bootstrap EUC use, lots of good people worked very hard on it for a long time. That effort, sincerely, was very much appreciated. 

 

[RockyTop]

6 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

I guess that's the goal, to drive away people who don't vocally subscribe to a specific ethos. Maybe that's the inevitable end point of every site like this I don't know.

I hope not! I understand the strong emotions and opinions. And sure people are going to do what they are going to do. Yet even with the harsh words it is a two way discussion. The other person IS reading the comments and disagreeing.

When the EUC world started everyone had to be in one basket. There was only one basket. As things grow local groups build up and the guys from NYC might not think that Grandpa RockyTop is all that cool anymore. I am not upset about that. ......... I think they are pretty cool ..... mostly?  We are going to break up into groups with different goals. Hopefully we can respect and appreciate each other while on this site. This thread is a small corner that can be ignored/avoided. I say hate the action, not the person and work together to better the community. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

6 hours ago, Tasku said:

My wife says: "Watch out for the elderly folk.."
We both worked among em and we joke about it, but as "stereotype" they can be sometimes the worst. Refering to some "Crusaders" against everything moving faster than they do, that particular public opinion seems important to community. All new things go through the shredder of public "piss and poo throwing". Strange enough the opinions of those who do not ride, seems to/or could matter more than ours in the end.

Riding any PEV seems to come with responsibility. This whole post is full of arguments that can be used as "weapons" against EUC-devices and rider behaviour as whole, as others/some could view this as "odd-thing". There are plenty of industry out there who also wanna prove a point  that these should be banned, just as it is in Holland. The country has perfect infrastructure for this device yet banned. Why? Because none defended against arguments like "Not safe, unregulated, marginal". The companies that keep building parking space for bicycles were happy. The ton of lobbying force shaked hands and were like, "That was so easy, like taking a lolly from baby.. These EUC-fellas got no-one talking for em." Put your money where your mouth is, (the money you cannot get insurance maybe?), spend it to lobbying force toward your EUC. Group up and try to get voice out there, that would help your cause, just my thoughts reading this topic.

I for one think some rule knowledge is a must. And my viewpoint comes from my local area where anyone, without any prior knowledge can get to bicycling-lane and ride. And as these lanes get crowded the risks increase them being narrow and poorly maintained. The speed difference of multiple travelers also increase change of accidents. Crossing areas are potential risk to lose life. Things get fixed but it takes time, meanwhile we gotta live with the bubblegum fixes in place.

I always suspected the bike lobby in Holland was behind the ban. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

10 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Or... you could always...

 

@ShanesPlanet... Why me? 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪

[Paulo Mesquita]

12 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 I say, let it ride and maybe within the next 1000 pages, we will find the answer to 'life, the universe, everything.'

Now wouldn't that be grea?! 😁😁😁😁😁

[OldFartRides]

I respectfully disagree W.W.  The topic is important and the discussion, tho thorny is necessary. Yes, it has been heated at times, but the patient and even keeled mods have capably steered it away from edge. People come and go as they please, pick and choose the threads they participate in or just lurk. I have read every single post in this thread, and revisited sections and particular posters contributions to refresh my memory. 
New folks to the site might go back and read the first page or two of this thread and skip everything in the middle. That’s what I do sometimes with long threads at a rather large motorcycle forum I also frequent.

Forum member  Rywokast  has just now weighed in on the topic.

I still vehemently condemn the lawless and dangerous disregard of traffic (ped and vehicular) rules. 

History turns on a dime. I’m probably repeating what has already been pointed out before: That was a close shave with that little girl in the crosswalk. That was absolutely “Turbo’s” “bad”. I hope Turbo reflects on this and rides more considerately and carefully of others in the future. 
 

As someone who actively promotes the “wheel life”, I’m surprised at your attitude in this, but everyone is entitled to their opinions.  Who knows what the future will bring regarding EUC’s and the law. It is I think important to us all in this “Karass” (or maybe it’s just a granfalloon).
 

As always, all the best to you and yours.

Keep the rubber side down !

[winterwheel]

55 minutes ago, OldFartRides said:

It is I think important to us all in this “Karass” (or maybe it’s just a granfalloon).

How dare you reference my favorite bit of literature... 

At the risk of re-starting something, my point of view is actually fairly simple.

Wheels start out as an experiment / hobby / toy for a small number of tinkerers, mostly us older folk with time and money to waste on apparently frivolous projects. We are coming to the end of this time.

Now we have a wide spectrum of wheels that can ride comfortably in many situations - from an MTen3 as an awesome mobility device in a large indoor space, to  Monster Pro or Sherman than ride with cars and and travel modestly spaced cities if needed.

But the tinkerers are not the ones to fit wheels into society. That's left to the next generation. The next generation are the ones to push the tech into all the little nooks and crannies of society to see how and where it fits, how it can actually be applied to a modern world. They have the bravery to ride in traffic (I do this as much as I can, but it's not for the faint of heart), and the ability to push boundaries past the conventional norms to see how they can actually be useful. We are just entering this phase.

The eventual third phase is where everybody rides the devices produced by the tinkerers, on the roads paved by a second generation of risk takers.

I see the people here as the tinkerers trying to skip phase 2 to go directly to the third phase of mass adoption. This isn't possible because we/they don't have the chutzpah to push wheeling into unexpected places to see what is possible, we/they are bound too much by the need to follow the rules, such as they are, of the place we live in today.

As always, these views are my own, not expecting to convince anybody of anything. This is merely to inform those who care why I hold the views I do.

 

 

[RockyTop]

1 hour ago, winterwheel said:

How dare you reference my favorite bit of literature... 

At the risk of re-starting something, my point of view is actually fairly simple.

Wheels start out as an experiment / hobby / toy for a small number of tinkerers, mostly us older folk with time and money to waste on apparently frivolous projects. We are coming to the end of this time.

Now we have a wide spectrum of wheels that can ride comfortably in many situations - from an MTen3 as an awesome mobility device in a large indoor space, to  Monster Pro or Sherman than ride with cars and and travel modestly spaced cities if needed.

But the tinkerers are not the ones to fit wheels into society. That's left to the next generation. The next generation are the ones to push the tech into all the little nooks and crannies of society to see how and where it fits, how it can actually be applied to a modern world. They have the bravery to ride in traffic (I do this as much as I can, but it's not for the faint of heart), and the ability to push boundaries past the conventional norms to see how they can actually be useful. We are just entering this phase.

The eventual third phase is where everybody rides the devices produced by the tinkerers, on the roads paved by a second generation of risk takers.

I see the people here as the tinkerers trying to skip phase 2 to go directly to the third phase of mass adoption. This isn't possible because we/they don't have the chutzpah to push wheeling into unexpected places to see what is possible, we/they are bound too much by the need to follow the rules, such as they are, of the place we live in today.

As always, these views are my own, not expecting to convince anybody of anything. This is merely to inform those who care why I hold the views I do.

 

 

I agree 99%  Yet the bigger cites are moving at a much faster pace. The medium sized cities are just getting started (10 -15 people out of 400,000). And @ShanesPlanet is just one guy out in the country .........   Most people I meet have still never heard of EUCs including a guy on a one wheel and another on a mini segway.  Yet I still agree.  I just hope that the EUC does not fall into the condemned class that the skateboard has been held in for the last 60 years.   

 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

7 hours ago, Planemo said:

I'll save you a 1000 pages.

The answer is 42.

You're welcome.

But what is the question?   

[Sumako]

3 hours ago, winterwheel said:

How dare you reference my favorite bit of literature... 

At the risk of re-starting something, my point of view is actually fairly simple.

Wheels start out as an experiment / hobby / toy for a small number of tinkerers, mostly us older folk with time and money to waste on apparently frivolous projects. We are coming to the end of this time.

Now we have a wide spectrum of wheels that can ride comfortably in many situations - from an MTen3 as an awesome mobility device in a large indoor space, to  Monster Pro or Sherman than ride with cars and and travel modestly spaced cities if needed.

But the tinkerers are not the ones to fit wheels into society. That's left to the next generation. The next generation are the ones to push the tech into all the little nooks and crannies of society to see how and where it fits, how it can actually be applied to a modern world. They have the bravery to ride in traffic (I do this as much as I can, but it's not for the faint of heart), and the ability to push boundaries past the conventional norms to see how they can actually be useful. We are just entering this phase.

The eventual third phase is where everybody rides the devices produced by the tinkerers, on the roads paved by a second generation of risk takers.

I see the people here as the tinkerers trying to skip phase 2 to go directly to the third phase of mass adoption. This isn't possible because we/they don't have the chutzpah to push wheeling into unexpected places to see what is possible, we/they are bound too much by the need to follow the rules, such as they are, of the place we live in today.

As always, these views are my own, not expecting to convince anybody of anything. This is merely to inform those who care why I hold the views I do.

 

 

Support the Brave; push out the “Karens”.

[Planemo]

2 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

But what is the question?   

Well, aside from the meaning of life, the universe and everything, 42 (minutes) is also how long it would take you to fall through the centre of the earth and arrive at the other side. Assuming your tube had a vacuum of course, and you didn't touch the sides.

If that hasn't derailed the thread enough, nothing will.

[Paulo Mesquita]

2 hours ago, RockyTop said:

I agree 99%  Yet the bigger cites are moving at a much faster pace. The medium sized cities are just getting started (10 -15 people out of 400,000). And @ShanesPlanet is just one guy out in the country .........   Most people I meet have still never heard of EUCs including a guy on a one wheel and another on a mini segway.  Yet I still agree.  I just hope that the EUC does not fall into the condemned class that the skateboard has been held in for the last 60 years.   

 

@ShanesPlanet is just one guy out in the country... Because everyone is afraid of getting close to him 😂😂😂😂😂😂