Incredibly bad look for this community.

[Gasmantle]

17 hours ago, winterwheel said:

For me, calling other riders idiots is far more offensive than anything seen in that video.

To be honest after seeing the way some guys ride around busy city streets I'd say calling them idiots is being generous - I'd say they are selfish arseholes.

[Treatz]

59 minutes ago, Sumako said:

wow, you had to dig way back to June 11th for that one.

 

Sumako:  Do you believe that unsafe riding that puts others in fear for their safety is a bad look for the community?

[Paul A]

The rider in the video sped through a red light at a pedestrian crossing, at high speed, would have hit a child, causing serious injury or death, had it not been for the mother pulling the child back just in time.

The rider did this knowingly and intentionally, as he was yelling at the pedestrians to get out of the way from quite a distance prior, when the traffic light was already red.

He had ample time and opportunity to stop but chose not to do so.

The rider did not seem to be concerned with the safety of others, as evidenced by the rider's comments that:

he would participate in future alley cat races again

he did not think there was a problem as no one was injured,

 

The rider was genuinely surprised by the reaction and numerous comments by viewers.

[Chriull]

@Paul A - nice summary!

Interesting this makes 28 pages of discussion, as it was quite clear from the beginning that noone would change the mindset of any other one.

It just gives people the opportunity to collect warning points for personal insults.

This is an emotional topic for many as it seems - so please rethink what and how you post something - we don't have many rules here!

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Sumako said:

@mrelwood wow, you had to dig way back to June 11th for that one.

Look again. This thread was started on June 11th. I quoted your posts from two days ago.

[Rehab1]

@Paul A  Excellent summation of the initial facts. We should just cut and past your response when ‘Page 50’ rolls around. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

12 hours ago, Flying W said:

@ShanesPlanet, don't come out to ca, out here the driver gets the ticket if they have a passenger not wearing a belt. Something about it being the drivers responsibility blah blah blah.....

I don't care if my passenger wants to go without a belt but since I have to pay the ticket the belts on or they are walking. It's a lame law but it makes everyone wear the seat belt. 

I also used to stand up in the front seat when I was a kid. Of we had to stop quick my dad would put his arm on my chest to keep my off the dash board but sometimes I'd slide under and fall on the floor. We'd laugh about it and I'd get back up on the seat. 

If you ever come out this way and end up in my car you can drive and I'll wear a seatbelt so you don't get a ticket from me 

In Portugal is the same. The driver gets the ticket and a fine of 350€(about $400)... And he loses points on his driver's license. 

As for seatbelts I do have a traumatic past about them an so I always use them and make everyone in my car use them. 

I know of a close death to me and also of a horrible child death for not using seat belts, and I narrowly escaped death the only time I didn't use one. It was actually a miracle I survived. So seatbelts are a "must" in my case 😊

[Paulo Mesquita]

5 hours ago, Paul A said:

The rider in the video sped through a red light at a pedestrian crossing, at high speed, would have hit a child, causing serious injury or death, had it not been for the mother pulling the child back just in time.

The rider did this knowingly and intentionally, as he was yelling at the pedestrians to get out of the way from quite a distance prior, when the traffic light was already red.

He had ample time and opportunity to stop but chose not to do so.

The rider did not seem to be concerned with the safety of others, as evidenced by the rider's comments that:

he would participate in future alley cat races again

he did not think there was a problem as no one was injured,

 

The rider was genuinely surprised by the reaction and numerous comments by viewers.

For riders like this (in cars motocycles, PEVs, etc) one I've had, in Portugal and for the past 30 years, this silent and evil mantra/curse every time they fly by me: "the next lamp post is yours"... And ashamedly I admit they do die against the next lamp post. 

You see, in a very pragmatic way I know that in due time they will kill some innocent person, as collateral damage to their extreme stupidity. So I profoundly and philosophically wish their brains redecorate the next lamp post. And I feel no guilt. You see, all my life I've abided by my one and only democracy principle: "my freedom ends where my neighbor's begins."

And so, these sub human murderous imbeciles should die as fast as possible...to avoid collateral damage. 

... Man, I'm having a bad day... 😒

[Heyzeus]

 

7 hours ago, Paul A said:

The rider in the video sped through a red light at a pedestrian crossing, at high speed, would have hit a child, causing serious injury or death, had it not been for the mother pulling the child back just in time.

The rider did this knowingly and intentionally, as he was yelling at the pedestrians to get out of the way from quite a distance prior, when the traffic light was already red.

He had ample time and opportunity to stop but chose not to do so.

The rider did not seem to be concerned with the safety of others, as evidenced by the rider's comments that:

he would participate in future alley cat races again

he did not think there was a problem as no one was injured,

 

The rider was genuinely surprised by the reaction and numerous comments by viewers.

 

5 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

  Excellent summation of the initial facts. We should just cut and past your response when ‘Page 50’ rolls around. 

I honestly have no idea how this is even a debate for some as to whether that is okay or not.  I just can't wrap my head around it.

 

Thought experiment:

I'm riding, I'm slaloming across multiple street lanes like a skier/snowboarder on the slopes(I see people doing this all the time in the new york group ride videos, not just a slight slalom constrained to their one lane/bike path but across multiple like they own the whole street, how annoying would this be for a car or motorcyclist trying to pass), I'm ignoring red lights, I'm blowing through crosswalks, I'm almost hitting people, riding at unsafe speeds in close proximity to children/dogs, generally riding with no concern for anyone but myself. If/when I do have a collision with a bike or pedestrian or a car or motorcycle while doing these things I get mad and yell at them.  HOW DARE THEY!

 

Now take that EUC/electric skateboard/one wheel/scooter out from between my legs and put a motorcycle there, Is what I'm doing now less acceptable.

Replace that motorcycle with a car/truck, how about now, is what I'm doing now not okay, am I finally now the asshole.

If changing the mode of transport suddenly makes the person an inconsiderate ass, well, here's the secret, it's not the mode of transport that determined whether they were an inconsiderate ass(a pedestrian running through the streets on their foot doing these things would be an ass), they were always one but just too fragile to admit it.  Just because the behavior is less likely to seriously injure someone than a car doing it doesn't mean "it's all cool, stop harshing my vibe dude".

 

One of these days, someone's going to go to blow through a crosswalk at 20mph and a big dude walking with their kid is going to body check/push or clothesline the person right off their wheel to protect their kid and the rider will 100% have deserved it.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Heyzeus

[Chriull]

What was unclear with 

7 hours ago, Chriull said:

This is an emotional topic for many as it seems - so please rethink what and how you post something - we don't have many rules here!

?

If anyone has specific questions regarding the forum rules do not hesitate to ask.

The mentions of idiots, assholes and people to die gets definitely out of bounds.

 

[Mark13i]

23 minutes ago, Chriull said:

If anyone has specific questions regarding the forum rules do not hesitate to ask.

The mentions of idiots, assholes and people to die gets definitely out of bounds.

 

Not even a tiny epithet can be used against a third person? 

[Heyzeus]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

What was unclear with 

?

If anyone has specific questions regarding the forum rules do not hesitate to ask.

The mentions of idiots, assholes and people to die gets definitely out of bounds.

 

If that's directed at my recent post, sorry, I haven't read every post, I'm not trying to be difficult(not being sarcastic, being sincere).

At the same time though what is wrong with stating water is wet.

Personally insulting some other forum user that you are going back and forth having a discussion with, yes, definitely not cool.

Saying someone who slaps an old woman in the face is a jerk or an a****** or i****, I don't see how that would be controversial (again maybe your reply wasn't directed at me).

One should be able to toss out a hypothetical and take a stance on said hypothetical that engaging in such hypothetical actions might hypothetically make that hypothetical person an a******.

1 hour ago, Mark13i said:

Not even a tiny epithet can be used against a third person? 

Right?, saying it in a way like "that's not the most neighborly of actions bro" just doesn't get the point across in the same way as saying "if you do xyz there is a good chance you are an a******".  

And saying "oh you can't judge anyone here because it might ruffle some feathers and offend some" is a good way to get people who might engage in said bad behavior to continue thinking narcissistically that it's okay to continue to do so and it's only a few people who think what they are doing is bad so it must not be that wrong.

The nice thing about life is we aren't cursed to always be the same, one can momentarily act like an a****** without BEING an a******, really up to them and how they go forward in life that differentiates the two. As I've said before, I'm not perfect and I think all of us have had our moments in life where we did things that were less than cool.

Water is wet

Edited July 7, 2021 by Heyzeus

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

What was unclear with 

?

If anyone has specific questions regarding the forum rules do not hesitate to ask.

The mentions of idiots, assholes and people to die gets definitely out of bounds.

 

Sorry, I was out of line but I've just seen to many innocents die on portuguese roads in over 50 years, caused brutal and irresponsable drivers. 

I won't mention that death curse thing again... 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Paulo Mesquita

[Heyzeus]

13 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

Sorry, I was out of line but I've just seen to many innocents die on portuguese roads in over 50 years, caused brutal and irresponsable drivers. 

I won't mention that death curse thing again... 

 

I think where you were coming from is understandable, even if not forum approved.  It's not that you ACTUALLY want someone to die, you would much rather have them look inward and modify their behavior, but on a balance of probabilities, if they aren't going to modify their behavior and be better, you would rather they take themselves out before they take out others with them.

when you see articles and things like this every year

Driver, 17, charged in crash that killed 5 teens in Irvine last year – Orange County Register (ocregister.com)

it's easy to see how one could feel that way especially if it has hit you personally with someone close to you. Just google "multiple dead highschool car crash speeding" and you will get tons of results for different instances.

There are some people out there who live fast and loose and go through life like they are explosive gas trying to set themselves off, it's inevitable that they go out in glorious fashion and often at a young age.  You just hope that you or no one else is nearby when they do.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Heyzeus

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

The mentions of idiots, assholes and people to die gets definitely out of bounds.

I’ve already flogged myself with a feather. 

[Sumako]

11 hours ago, Treatz said:

 

Sumako:  Do you believe that unsafe riding that puts others in fear for their safety is a bad look for the community?

incessant

 continuing or following without interruption

[Sumako]

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Look again. This thread was started on June 11th. I quoted your posts from two days ago.

This back and forth is becoming sophomoric. If you’re not interested in being a good mod and look into the journey of my posts, like the one I make I made to @Paulo Mesquita on July 5th, then what the hell are you wasting your time for? 

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 hour ago, Heyzeus said:

I think where you were coming from is understandable, even if not forum approved.  It's not that you ACTUALLY want someone to die, you would much rather have them look inward and modify their behavior, but on a balance of probabilities, if they aren't going to modify their behavior and be better, you would rather they take themselves out before they take out others with them.

when you see articles and things like this every year

Driver, 17, charged in crash that killed 5 teens in Irvine last year – Orange County Register (ocregister.com)

it's easy to see how one could feel that way especially if it has hit you personally with someone close to you. Just google "multiple dead highschool car crash speeding" and you will get tons of results for different instances.

There are some people out there who live fast and loose and go through life like they are explosive gas trying to set themselves off, it's inevitable that they go out in glorious fashion and often at a young age.  You just hope that you or no one else is nearby when they do.

Exactly, if I can't change them and if society can't either, we know that eventually simmering innocent will end up dieing by their hand. Then it would be better if they did to themselves. 

I guess I've just seen to many innocents die and it's gotten to me. 

You see, I saw the ally cat video and I cannot concieve such insanity and disrespect for innocent lives. 

We can all have our own ideas, values and principles... But what if a guy on that EUC ran over a child, wife or sister of ours and killed her. That's what each of us would ask himself. How would we feel? What would we do? Would we wait for "justice" or take it into our own hands? 

The only way we can dig deep into ourselves and assume a posture of ethics and respect for others, while riding our EUCs, is to empathize with a possible killed victim in that video, because it really could have happened. 

If we can feel that and respond to our feelings in a positive, ethical and humane way, then we can contribute to a collective "movement" of consciencilization toward EUC riding,, its risks and responsabilities. And that might help generating better laws towards PEVs in general. 

Until then, the only things that can protect us and 3rd parties, are insurances and licences. 

Just my $0.02

[Paulo Mesquita]

11 hours ago, Chriull said:

@Paul A - nice summary!

Interesting this makes 28 pages of discussion, as it was quite clear from the beginning that noone would change the mindset of any other one.

It just gives people the opportunity to collect warning points for personal insults.

This is an emotional topic for many as it seems - so please rethink what and how you post something - we don't have many rules here!

IMHO.. It's the most important topic oc this forum and one that might be a milestone in educating future EUC riders and making life easier for this hobby/sport... long after I'm around on this planet... 

[Paul A]

Hello Chriull, hello Rehab1

Hope you are well, thank you for the kind words.

 

A life needlessly lost through negligent behaviour, may it never happen again,

Rest in peace, Lisa Banes.

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

This back and forth is becoming sophomoric. If you’re not interested in being a good mod and look into the journey of my posts, like the one I make I made to @Paulo Mesquita on July 5th, then what the hell are you wasting your time for? 

I’m wasting my time pointing out that what you wrote is inconsiderate or simply isn’t true. It has nothing to do with being a moderator. I’m also a member of the community, with my own opinions, which I take part in discussions with. Or haven’t you in turn been looking into “the journey of my posts”?

Atm nobody else on this thread but you is being defensive and trying to attack others and call people names. Just like the original point of this thread, pointing out bad behavior in their community is what people should and are expected to do.

Edited July 8, 2021 by mrelwood

[Treatz]

3 hours ago, Sumako said:

incessant

 continuing or following without interruption

Thank you.  This captures my point about you in a nutshell: You appear to be trolling the members of this forum and this provides a typical example of your participation thus far.

You don’t value this conversation, yet you’ve been the loudest voice in the room.  Have you noticed that, Sumako?

Most of us have been trying to have an important discussion and you want to offer smartaleck dictionary definitions that are meant to further pull us off topic. (And agitate others in the process)

This is your M.O. the entire time, going on for about a month now (as others have pointed out).  It can be summed up in 3 words: off topic agitation

This is a very important topic to many of us. It’s not to you. You’ve made that clear and I have no problem with that. You don’t have to agree. You don’t have to appreciate the things that others of us are saying. That’s all 100% okay. 

But why do you have to poop in the pool when the rest of us are just trying to swim? If you don’t like the topic, you don’t have to derail us. But, that’s all you’ve done. Why? 

Your behavior is inappropriate for a sincere conversation and no matter how it’s expressed to you, you just keep on going like you can’t self-manage. 

Truly, you should take a closer look at why you’ve participated this way. There was no reason for it and you added no value. But you could have and that’s the disappointment.

You could have been an important voice in this conversation. You’re intelligent. You clearly are impassioned to communicate your views. Disagreement can be extremely valuable when handled appropriately. Others have dissented in ways that opened my eyes to things. But not you. You’re just arguing to argue and it’s run its course.

I can’t think of a single comment you made that was offered in the spirit of helping us have this conversation. You’ve been hostile to this topic from the start and yet you’ve consumed the largest portion of air time of any of us. Why?

For 28 pages you have not addressed this topic a single time. When asked to state your position you dodge and play games. 

You simply refuse to allow us to have this conversation about consideration for others and safety I can’t figure out why. When asked point blank you refuse to tell us. 

 

 

[Sumako]

15 minutes ago, Treatz said:

Thank you.  This captures my point about you in a nutshell: You appear to be trolling the members of this forum and this provides a typical example of your participation thus far.

You don’t value this conversation, yet you’ve been the loudest voice in the room.  Have you noticed that, Sumako?

Most of us have been trying to have an important discussion and you want to offer smartaleck dictionary definitions that are meant to further pull us off topic. (And agitate others in the process)

This is your M.O. the entire time, going on for about a month now (as others have pointed out).  It can be summed up in 3 words: off topic agitation

This is a very important topic to many of us. It’s not to you. You’ve made that clear and I have no problem with that. You don’t have to agree. You don’t have to appreciate the things that others of us are saying. That’s all 100% okay. 

But why do you have to poop in the pool when the rest of us are just trying to swim? If you don’t like the topic, you don’t have to derail us. But, that’s all you’ve done. Why? 

Your behavior is inappropriate for a sincere conversation and no matter how it’s expressed to you, you just keep on going like you can’t self-manage. 

Truly, you should take a closer look at why you’ve participated this way. There was no reason for it and you added no value. But you could have and that’s the disappointment.

You could have been an important voice in this conversation. You’re intelligent. You clearly are impassioned to communicate your views. Disagreement can be extremely valuable when handled appropriately. Others have dissented in ways that opened my eyes to things. But not you. You’re just arguing to argue and it’s run its course.

I can’t think of a single comment you made that was offered in the spirit of helping us have this conversation. You’ve been hostile to this topic from the start and yet you’ve consumed the largest portion of air time of any of us. Why?

For 28 pages you have not addressed this topic a single time. When asked to state your position you dodge and play games. 

You simply refuse to allow us to have this conversation about consideration for others and safety I can’t figure out why. When asked point blank you refuse to tell us. 

 

 

Treatz I have answered your question. I do not have a yes or no to your question. I have a paragraph. Here is my answer. Again:

”Im not interested in Policing the riding habits of other riders. You and others have that handled pretty well. I am ONLY focused on maintaining and not expanding, any further, on the existing laws that govern our hobby wheels. Any attempt to create more government over reach into our hobby, including compelling riders to have to make annual tax/registration/insurance, is wrong for EUC riders in the United States. Plain and simple.”

[GoGeorgeGo]

39 minutes ago, Sumako said:

Treatz I have answered your question. I do not have a yes or no to your question. I have a paragraph. Here is my answer. Again:

”Im not interested in Policing the riding habits of other riders. You and others have that handled pretty well. I am ONLY focused on maintaining and not expanding, any further, on the existing laws that govern our hobby wheels. Any attempt to create more government over reach into our hobby, including compelling riders to have to make annual tax/registration/insurance, is wrong for EUC riders in the United States. Plain and simple.”

I think the only real threat of compulsory regulation comes in the form of registration. But even that will likely be state by state. Not all states require insurance on cars, so i dont see why every state would require it for an euc. Taxation, liscensing, and inspections will vary state to state just like with cars.

The only thing all states have in common when it comes to driving is registration. They need to be able.to identify you in the case of traffic infractions or accidents. In RI, mopeds under 50cc do not need to be registered, so maybe we can slip in under similar regulations. But a sherman or monster pro blasting 45 mph down the street is probably pushing that envelope. And these machines are not going to suddenly get smaller and slower thats for sure. 

Voluntary insurance coverage can still be available for those who want it. And im sure some states will require insurance. (Massachusetts will for sure require it, no doubt in my mind. But vermont and florida don't require insurance on cars so no way they require it for euc)

Of course you live in California, i would prepare for mandatory registration, mamdatory insurance, manditory inspections, excise tax, the whole gambit 🤣

Edited July 8, 2021 by GoGeorgeGo

[Sumako]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I’m wasting my time pointing out that what you wrote is inconsiderate or simply isn’t true. It has nothing to do with being a moderator. I’m also a member of the community, with my own opinions, which I take part in discussions with. Or haven’t you in turn been looking into “the journey of my posts”?

Atm nobody else on this thread but you is being defensive and trying to attack others and call people names. Just like the original point of this thread, pointing out bad behavior in their community is what people should and are expected to do.

@mrelwooda.k.a. “Emily Post” - obviously you have not read my post regarding  my commitment to calling out my comments about compelled insurance/registration of EUCs as being only for Unite States riders. Your inability to recognize, that I am making a distinction out of respect to the international community, bores me. “Emily”, please understand, I am not a good hobby to waste your time on. Since you choose on failing to recognize my changes to engagement in this community, as well as not understand my perspective then maybe its time to move on to another “Troubling EUC member”.