Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[SamSuffit]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

I suspect you had too high tire pressure. I rode at 30psi with 95kg geared weight. On the 80/90 version. 

Just by letting out a little air it felt easier to ride. @mrelwood and I have debated this a bit so I think he will laugh when reading this comment. 

I started higher as it kept me on the edge not going too fast after my drive board died on me at 30kmh. But after mounting a new board it works fine now, by it did dent my trust initially. 

It is the same feeling I had with the KS16X first batch tire (CX). But not as strong behaviour on the V11. I use to explain this as standing on V Vs an U shaped tire (sensation). Letting out a bit of air it becomes more like (_).

There is a fine line on having too little air  (risking rim damage or snake bit puncture on tube) Vs right pressure Vs too high pressure (make it unstable to balance). It also helps me to stand a bit more duck feet.

Now this sensation is linked to how high pedals are too. So it ties into how each model is constructed too. I have no experience with S20, but I expect it would work just as great on this wheel (for me) as I find it to work on V11 (see my review of V11 for more details).

I explained above here in this thread why I see this as unique great tire. 

Thanks but pressure was below 30 psi

First time: i did not pay much attention to centering the tire, thinking it would fit perfectly once inflated= important woble at medium/high speed

Second time: I demonted the wheel and refitted the tire with caution, trying to make it perfectly balanced. It worked ok the few first km but soon the same problem appeared.

Conclusion: this tubeless tire is not working well for me. I will try the Pirelli ANGEL SCOOTER 80/80 - 14, which is more a city tire, but i hope will not wobble at least.

ps: i also tried the Michelin CITY PRO 80/90 - 14 (46P) REINF M/C TT but the tire was a bit to big for the inmotion V11 batch 3

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by SamSuffit

[PourUC]

14 hours ago, Dylan Weidman said:

Think you got that backwards. S18 has no power, is crap off-road, good for posers. I’m excited kingsong is attempting a dirt bike level wheel. 

This is just nonsense.

In comparison to something mystical maybe. But on it's own the S18 isn't boring nor crap to ride off-road unless you equate off-road to riding up an incline permanently.

I strangely seem to have fun doing jumps in my local woods and frankly.... I am just prepared enough to even try and hit these jumps at 20mph let alone 30mph.

Talking 0.7m high 2m long in terms of air time. But of course.... the S18 has less torque than other wheels so it's instantly crap...

Edited September 3, 2021 by PourUC
correction

[The Fat Unicyclist]

15 hours ago, Paul A said:

Do EUCs need wheel balancing like cars after a tyre change?  Wobbles.

Especially now that they are capable of similar high speeds.

I've balanced an EUC wheel once before... partly to see if it did make a difference. 

And I think it does. In my case the wheel seemed more stable afterward and a little smoother when riding. But it was subtle, and possibly partly perception only. 

With wheels getting bigger and faster now though, I think there would definitely be more benefit that could be realised. 

The question now would be, how many people can be bothered going to the extra effort?

[itsmark]

13 hours ago, Paul A said:

Begode Hero was originally priced at $4100 USD.

Price now $2899 USD, with free shipping to USA.

Magically dropped when details of S20 released.

Following link courtesy of member 'ugoaps' posted on the Begode forum thread.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005003217781632.html

 

Think manufacturers can absorb cost and give away a free tyre.

The $4100 Hero price was only on ewheels. On alienrides the price was originally $3000 to $3600 I believe and is now listed as $2900 to $3400. Ewheels hasn't updated their price.

[itsmark]

I just realized that ewheels, under the S20 listing, says: 

• 20″ tire, available in either street or knobby

So I guess you can choose?

[Tawpie]

The singular "needs improvement" thing for eWheels is their website... everything else is best in class. I don't quite trust it on the details partly because I don't think KS has finalized them. And partly because the website isn't eWheel's forte. But who knows, maybe they'll fit your choice of tire before they ship it? That would be sweet, and just like eWheels. (not holding my breath though)

Edited September 4, 2021 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

Wondering what price Hero would be if S20 wasn't being released. 

Ewheels original price might be MSRP that was later changed.  Not sure a distributor arbitrarily sets price them self.  World wide product.  Pricing needs co-ordination.

[Paul A]

Ok, thanks TFU, might be worth doing. 

But how? 

Don't think EUC wheels can mount onto a car tyre balance machines...

[Paul A]

Distributor fitting tyres to order would be a lot of labour.  

Think Speedy had a video of a weekend when they had a hundred sales.

Think over a thousand Shermans sold in US by one distributor.  

Might be make best estimate of tyre choice demands.  The Duf solution again if run out of the fitted choice.  

[.....]

I wouldnt put a lot of faith in ANY exact choices about tire for a wheel that isnt in production yet. E-wheels isnt so hot about their site, thats for sure. I also heard something about ewheels hero price including an ewheels exclusive battery pack? At any rate, it doesnt have much to do with the s20. I KNOW its tough, but I'd surely resist the urge to waste much time deciding on details just yet...

I'd imagine to properly balance an euc tire/rim. one would need take the motor out, use large cups to support the rim alone. Secure it in a proper and calibrated dynamic balancer. Go thru the task of deciphering what the machine wants and what is possible with sticky weights. Static balance can be done, but i honestly havent bothered on ANY of mine. Tire hop and out of round or bent rims, arent solved with balancing and I find those problems are more prevelant. Hard to believe for as ocd as I am and the fact I've access to a balancer (15yrs of experience on them too), that i wouldnt bother. Properly seating a tire and buying one that doesnt hop, is near impossible as it is. I have yet to get a cheapo factory euc tire from ANY euc company, that runs nearly as true as my Pirelli does. No surprise there...

Edited September 4, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Paul A]

Ok, ewheels Hero might be different.  Bit confusing. Apples and oranges.

 

 

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, itsmark said:

I just realized that ewheels, under the S20 listing, says: 

• 20″ tire, available in either street or knobby

So I guess you can choose?

Or it means that the manufacturer hasn’t yet decided. Which we know to be true, as they are still running a poll on the tire choice.

39 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Ok, thanks TFU, might be worth doing. 

But how? 

Don't think EUC wheels can mount onto a car tyre balance machines...

EUC tires can be weight balanced without disassembling the wheel at all. You only need a plank and a digital kitchen scale:

But it should only be performed after getting the tire to run dead straight by deflating and manual centering, since the EUC rims don’t automatically center the tire. After which the valve will be the part you’ll end up compensating for the most with the weights. Weight balancing a badly seated tire still helps, but it’s a bit of an ass backwards kind of a process.

[.....]

"weight balancing" is really called  "static balancing" as it is done with the wheel not moving: 'static'. Most balancing uses 'weights', so its kind of a redundant thing to call it 'weight balancing'. Dynamic balancing is much better, but also much more effort. Of course a dynamic balance relies on what speed you travel and what size of rim you use(most cars are dynamically balanced at 30mph, which translates into perfect balance at 60/90/120mph).   Unless a wheel is WAY off, I simply dont think its worth the hassle. Of course when you balance a tire and rim together, you will be undermining the process when you change tires or allow the tire to spin on the rim at all. If you balance a rim by itself, you may be undermining the effort when you install a crap tire on it. Adding sealants or valve caps of weight can also mitigate the effort. I'd much rather see a straight rim and call it good, personally. If rim quality is good and tire quality is good, there isnt need for much. Runout and hop are MUCH more noticeable. Static balancing a poor rim and crap tire is akin to polishing a turd.

Edited September 4, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[mrelwood]

58 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

"weight balancing" is really called  "static balancing"

Good to know! In Finnish it’s just “balancing”, which can be confusing now that battery cell balancing of these self-balancing unicycles that are ridden by balancing in the left-right axis can automatically balance between two separate battery packs is a hot topic…

Quote

Most balancing uses 'weights', so its kind of a redundant thing to call it 'weight balancing'.

Redundancy has been called for for years now, no harm in providing what’s asked I think… 

The other process associated with tires is “centering” or “aligning” the tire, but many people (me included) are sometimes at a loss when it comes to English terminology. My thinking was that “weight balancing”, be it the correct title or not, would be a title that would be really hard to misunderstand.

 

Quote

If rim quality is good and tire quality is good, there isnt much need for much.

Absolutely. Unfortunately it’s a fact of life that the rims and tires used in most EUCs are not very good or straight. For the end user, even polishing the turd is often the better and easier solution, and can actually make a bad situation into a tolerable one. If the tire has a hop or “runout” even after rigorous centering, balancing with weights can still help some.

If someone has never needed to manually align or “static balance” an EUC tire, I definitely congrat for their good luck! But it definitely doesn’t mean that many people wouldn’t always have found help from these processes.

 Unless the S20 does something radically differently, some units will have these exact issues. Using an MC tire with a much stiffer carcass is already much less prone to actual tire deviation issues, since they don’t deform anywhere near as easily during storage and shipment, and they can’t be packed by bending them in half which is how some of the bicycle style tires are shipped.

Edited September 4, 2021 by mrelwood

[.....]

Here's a marketing strategy... 

NEW the KS20.  The planet's only wheel that comes stock with a straight rim and quality metals.

Cmon KS, bring in a new era of quality. Just the little bits and what not is fine. You up the quality game and pay attention to these little details, along with requiring your 3rd party parts suppliers do the same.... I'll be a HUGE KS fanboi again and will beg you to take my money... You hear me go on and on about the 18xl. Well, please allow me to do the same with the s20 and others that follow. I LOVE being surprised by straight rims, cable routing and finished edges.

Edited September 4, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[mrelwood]

Just now, ShanesPlanet said:

Here's a marketing strategy... 

NEW the KS20.  The planet's only wheel that comes stock with a straight rim and quality metals.

Be careful, I wouldn’t be all that surprised if they actually used that, but as a marketing strategy only. With zero real world consequences.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

6 hours ago, Paul A said:

Ok, thanks TFU, might be worth doing. 

But how? 

Don't think EUC wheels can mount onto a car tyre balance machines...

 

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

EUC tires can be weight balanced without disassembling the wheel at all. You only need a plank and a digital kitchen scale:

 

Yes, this is exactly how I did it (using this video as a reference)...

[Eucner]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Good to know! In Finnish it’s just “balancing”, which can be confusing now that battery cell balancing of these self-balancing unicycles that are ridden by balancing in the left-right axis can automatically balance between two separate battery packs is a hot topic…

Yes, in everyday language it is just "tasapainotus". Longer terms "staattinen tasapainotus" and "dynaaminen tasapainotus" are also used.

[Jason McNeil]

20 hours ago, itsmark said:

I just realized that ewheels, under the S20 listing, says: 

• 20″ tire, available in either street or knobby

So I guess you can choose?

KS are evaluating three tire options: the Kenda 262 (same as Sherman), K272 a hybrid type of tire & the CST C-6004. My vote is with the K272, it has a ton of tread for +5000 mile longevity, looks great for off-roading too.

We've been working with Chao Yang to resume production of the much missed 18x3" H666 tire, these are expected to arrive in the next 5-6 weeks for the Begodes & V11. 

  

19 hours ago, Tawpie said:

And partly because the website isn't eWheel's forte.

There's only so much one can squeeze into a day, dealing with emails/operational issues consumes all working hours at the moment . Working on getting some product pages updated...  

20 hours ago, itsmark said:

The $4100 Hero price was only on ewheels. On alienrides the price was originally $3000 to $3600 I believe and is now listed as $2900 to $3400. Ewheels hasn't updated their price.

At the wholesale level the Hero is >25% more expensive than the S20. IMO KS is out the gate with a Wheel that's going to pull the rug from Begode. While I can't speak on Alien's estimated pricing range, with wholesale costs + duty + container costs (currently standing at $25k) + other costs there's really not a lot of margin left on the bone.   

Edited September 4, 2021 by Jason McNeil

[fbhb]

37 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

KS are evaluating three tire options: the Kenda 272 (same as Sherman), K272 a hybrid type of tire & the CY C-6004. My vote is with the K272, it has a ton of tread for +5000 mile longevity, looks great for off-roading too.

@Jason McNeil, I think you have a typo in your description of the 3 tire options where you state "the Kenda 272 (same as Sherman)"! Should be Kenda 262, as many people seem to now be confusing the 2 during voting especially on Facebook!

I would guess that many actually voting for the Kenda 272, have no real knowledge of it or it's real world performance. I personally, have not even come across this tire, although it looks vaguely similar to the Monster V3 offering!

Edited September 4, 2021 by fbhb

[supercurio]

43 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

KS are evaluating three tire options: the Kenda 272 (same as Sherman), K272 a hybrid type of tire & the CY C-6004. My vote is with the K272, it has a ton of tread for +5000 mile longevity, looks great for off-roading too.

We've been working with Chao Yang to resume production of the much missed 18x3" H666 tire, these are expected to arrive in the next 5-6 weeks for the Begodes & V11. 

Very interesting to hear that Chao Yang would resume production of the H666 in 18x3.0, I would certainly be curious to compare it with the C6004.

Hopefully it won't be a USA / eWheels only thing!

I think the same @fbhb regarding confusion between the K262 and K272. For some reason it's very easy to mix up both numbers, I did the same earlier as well and only caught it after proofreading.

By the way the C6004 is from CST, not CY/Chao Yang @Jason McNeil

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by supercurio

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

There's only so much one can squeeze into a day, dealing with emails/operational issues consumes all working hours at the moment . Working on getting some product pages updated... 

FWIW, I do think y'all have your priorities correct... customers first is what keeps me coming back. The website, particularly with unfinalized product, can wait!

[Forwardnbak]

Might be asking heaps but I bought my latest vehicle on the confidence of an extended manufacturer warranty. I would love to see some extra warranty 3 years would be such a winner.  it would be a great way to show confidence in the release. I’d pay up asap, also these premiums the extra year confidence fees worthy. 

[Paul A]

Thanks to Mr Elwood for producing and featuring in the static balancing video.

[Unventor]

On 9/5/2021 at 6:44 AM, Forwardnbak said:

Might be asking heaps but I bought my latest vehicle on the confidence of an extended manufacturer warranty. I would love to see some extra warranty 3 years would be such a winner.  it would be a great way to show confidence in the release. I’d pay up asap, also these premiums the extra year confidence fees worthy. 

That would come at a big cost. And warranty is one thing but to cover any accidental damage from off-roading or weather ingress is something very different, which is what most people tend to find after a while. The wear of the wheel is something total different. So it depends if you want a free service to fix anything it will be very expensive as I see it.