Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[RockyTop]

1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said:

We all know that's not happening

You have obviously never used a paraglider motor with your EUC. 

[Unventor]

44 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Why did you have to go and make scene? 
It reminds me of the three US car companies. Chevy gets you excited about a Corvette and sell you a Camaro. Ford says this is the Mustang you will like it. And Chrysler asks you what you want and gives it to you. The problem is no matter how much you may want a 6 wheel drive mini truck with a 440 Hemi that goes 0-60 in 3.4 seconds. You would never actually buy one. 
My take is that the knobby tire works just fine for me on the pavement. The street tire is almost useless on wet grass. 

Have a look at Heidenau K66 80/90-14 tire, then you don't miss out on anything and it is all season too or optional slightly better at winter time too if you use Snowtex variant.I think it is German made. I have tested this on my V11. Surprisingly good. 

[RockyTop]

5 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Have a look at Heidenau K66 80/90-14 tire, then you don't miss out on anything and it is all season too or optional slightly better at winter time too if you use Snowtex variant.I think it is German made. I have tested this on my V11. Surprisingly good. 

Thanks, I will look into this

[supercurio]

39 minutes ago, Paul A said:

With specs of:

126V, 70kph top speed, large 20" wheel, approx 200km range,

seems more suited to road.

 

Riders planning on using as predominantly off road might find S18 more than adequate and cheaper.

Same idea here, I would have voted K262 or C186 knobby if the expected weight wasn't 35kg with many of critical components exposed.

I see it being fantastic for off-road as long as it doesn't get too technical.
You know, the kind with a series of obstacles which requires 3+ attempts to overcome, with the wheel falling heavily at least twice before succeeding. In these scenarios the knobby is most helpful.

Otherwise the C6004 already does really well on most off-road.
Context: I swapped the K262 for C6004 on Sherman despite riding 40%+ off-road.

Edited September 2, 2021 by supercurio

[RagingGrandpa]

26 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I keep an eye on the high performers like Mike Leahy. What will it take for him to switch to a suspension wheel?

For jumping dirt-

The benefits of suspension are:

• Landings get softer

The drawbacks of suspension are:

1. Poor crash durability (expensive stuff gets bent and broken)
2. More mass

I don't think we'll see Shibby Mike or Phantom Nick going big using suspension wheels any time soon
 

2 hours ago, conecones said:

keep this wheel off-road focused!

Grass, gravel, dirt roads? Sure!

Narrow trails, jumps, skate parks? Dream on...

[That Guy]

8 hours ago, Ádám Szitás said:

... I'm not surprised the K262 wins there [Facebook], it's the most common tire people talk about...

I am afraid voting for K262 often related to some kind of emotional general appreciation of Veteran Sherman rather than deeper analysis of which tyre is actually the best for most situations...

[Curt8892]

Is it possible to tune the suspension so that Leahy jumpers can benefit. I do not see many MTB without suspension anymore and I do not see F1 cars without suspension. Even some road bikes have suspension (via give in the frame)

 

 

 

[Paul A]

 

Click on above graphic to redirect to forum thread 'POLL -S20 Eagle Tire Options', Jack King Song's poll for choice of tyre.

Click to vote.  Click to see current results.

 

Currently, more members (85) are following this KingSong S20 confirmed post, than number of votes (48) in the poll.

[conecones]

3 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 I would surmise that the bulk of buyers are road riders with a tiny bit of 'off-road'.  Whatever KS feels is the bulk of their riders, is what this wheel should cater too. Sell to the masses but alow it upgradeable for the fringes.

I challenge KingSong to stick with the design philosophy and not dumb it down to appeal to the masses. Look at that monster sized shock, this bad boy is meant for the dirt!

High end sports cars design their suspension around track use and yet most owners drive it to work or golf course. If they appealed to the masses then they’d put on minivan style shocks, but they don’t. That’s called sticking to their design!

Same with Jeep Wrangler or Ford Bronco, you ever see one with street tires? 😂 Doesn’t matter most of these owners never hit the dirt with it.

Also the K262 is already a dual sport tire, not off-road specific. It does well on the road as many Sherman riders can attest to, certainly the tire doesn’t hold the rider back from doing what they want on the street whereas a street tire on off-road trail would severely limit capabilities once a tiny bit of mud is involved.

Edited September 2, 2021 by conecones

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, RockyTop said:

Thanks, I will look into this

If you look for more torque you could go for K66 80/80-14 at the expense of top speed. 

This shows them side by side  unmounted. The size difference is much bigger than I anticipated.

One thing that might be obvious at first glance is that most other tires have a solid centerline that acts as a slick tire. This have the benefit to make the tire easier to twist turn at slow speeds (walking or slower). The downside is it makes it slippery.

On knobby tire, making twist turn is much harder so you tend to force you to tilt turn instead. But in loose sand or mud or gras that makes sideways slide out a higher risk happening. 

The K66 don't have either of these drawbacks. It is hard for me to explain. I managed to make it kinda slide sideways by making a hard L at a roundabout crossing car lane turning into the bike lane on the epoxy painted markings on the road despite it was dry. It felt like abs kicking in braking hard in a car. It was fighting for grib. Any other tire I have had would mean a hard crash. 

I found I could push harder to cross the car lane brake hard with a semi twist and lean turn. I push hard on inside heal bending the outside leg slightly. Just don't over do this in wets or on markings on the street.

I have done similar on other wheels but in wet I have had sideways slide of up to 30ish cm which feels like a car aquaplaning. It is not a safe feeling at all. Since you rely on traction for balance to stay upright.

For people that do both street and off road rides I think this is one of the best tires we seen for EUCs. 

Just to add a 10cents despite the S20 do not hold high interest for me at least yet 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Unventor

[Dylan Weidman]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

With specs of:

126V, 70kph top speed, large 20" wheel, approx 200km range,

seems more suited to road.

 

Riders planning on using as predominantly off road might find S18 more than adequate and cheaper.

Think you got that backwards. S18 has no power, is crap off-road, good for posers. I’m excited kingsong is attempting a dirt bike level wheel. 

[r_713]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

 

Click on above graphic to redirect to forum thread 'POLL -S20 Eagle Tire Options', Jack King Song's poll for choice of tyre.

Click to vote.  Click to see current results.

 

Currently, more members (85) are following this KingSong S20 confirmed post, than number of votes (48) in the poll.

I'm voting for the C6004. I already have the K262 (which I like) and would like to try something different. The C6004 tread is quite similar to what I'm running on my R1200GSA. It's a 80/20 (road vs trail) tread and, for my use case, spot on. So let me try that on an EUC.

Edited September 3, 2021 by r_713
adding that I like the K262

[Curt8892]

19 hours ago, itsmark said:

I would like for it to come with a more off-road focused tire (I voted for the 262), but it looks like I'm in the minority on that one.

I am with you. 

[Tawpie]

I voted for the knobby as well, for off road and for slush and fresh snow. Although, I have to admit that the way I ride, the street tire on my 16X (the H666) doesn't have any problems with soft dirt, wet grass or hard snow. Perhaps the C6004 will do as well as the H666, if not I guess it shouldn't be any issue at all putting something else on. Maybe wider even?

[Chucka Wheelie]

Voted for the C6004 as well as I'm going to mostly ride in an urban setting.  But looking at the FB group vote... I think the K272 has it comfortably. 

[fbhb]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Perhaps the C6004 will do as well as the H666

Judging from the feedback I have gathered since fitting the CST 6004 myself and from others that have tried it too, I consider the CST 6004 to surpass the renowned H666 in All areas!

@supercurio can most probably chime in here and back up my claims having experienced a range of tires in his recent quest, but it most certainly does offer the best middle ground for stock fitment!

Pure street guys are gonna swap it out for a Conti, Pirelli, Michelin etc. and pure off road guys will want to go with a knobby - can't please everyone so the Best compromise/All round tire is the Only solution IMHO.

Edited September 3, 2021 by fbhb

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

Pure street guys are gonna swap it out for a Conti, Pirelli, Michelin etc. and pure off road guys will want to go with a knobby - can't please everyone so the Best compromise/All round tire is the Only solution IMHO.

Trying to do both at same time could make it worse. So that leaves you with not satisfying anyone. A better way is to look at who is the main target group. And list options if you want to do different. But having enough clearance to mount different tire types is the first real steps to really play with different tire types.

[Paul A]

Possible solution might be for KS to do a similar thing as what E-wheels did when the Veteran Sherman was released.  

 

When the Sherman was  released, purchasers were given the option to have the road or street tyre fitted.

Duf opted for knobby but received street.  E-wheels just sent out a free knobby to Duf to fit himself.  Too much of a hassle for distributor. 

 

Perhaps KS fit half with street, half with knobby, and also ship out spare street and knobbys that distributors will need as spare parts anyway. 

If a distributor runs out of one type of fitment, just include the other tyre for free.  Cost of a free tyre is insignificant after a customer had paid thousands.  Saves the hassle and labour of fitting it.  

Customer gets a free spare at the cost of having to fit them self.

 

Another easier option is KS just includes the other tyre for free and makes no obligation on which one has been fitted.

 

Give away a free tyre.  Cost is nothing for the goodwill generated.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Paul A
typos

[.....]

1 minute ago, Paul A said:

Possible solution might be for KS to do a similar thing as what E-wheels did when the Veteran Sherman was released.  

 

When the Sherman was  released, purchasers were given the option to have the road or street tyre fitted.

Duf opted for knobby but received street.  E-wheels just sent out a free knobby to Duf to fit himself.  Too much of a hassle for distributor. 

 

Perhaps KS fit half with street, half with knobby, and also ship out spare street and knobbys that distributors will need as spare parts anyway. 

If a distributor runs out of one type of figment, just include the other tyre for free.  Cost of a free tyre is insignificant after a customer had paid thousands.  Saves the hassle and labour of fitting it.  

Customer gets a free spare at the cost of having to fit them self.

 

Another easier option is KS just includes the other tyre for free and makes no obligation on which one has been fitted.

 

Give a way a free tyre.  Cost is nothing for the goodwill generated.

If using quality screws is asking too much, I would think that asking for a free tire may also be a tough one. I like the idea of choices, but I'm not sure it worked out logistically in the end for the sherman.

[Paul A]

Begode Hero price magically dropped significantly after S20 details were released.  

Think manufacturers can absorb the cost of a free tyre.

Incredibly cheap price for goodwill and customer satisfaction.

Or have the hassle of annoying those that didn't get the preferred voted tyre.  Dangled the choice then snatched it away...

[SamSuffit]

13 hours ago, Unventor said:

Have a look at Heidenau K66 80/90-14 tire, then you don't miss out on anything and it is all season too or optional slightly better at winter time too if you use Snowtex variant.I think it is German made. I have tested this on my V11. Surprisingly good. 

I tried it on Inmotion v11 batch 3 (and i currently have bearings issues). Impossible for me to keep it centered. Result: the wheel wobbles at medium or high speed. How were you able to have it centered and not moving?

Edit: exact specification of the tire i tried: Heidenau K66 M+S Snowtex 80/80-14 43J

Edited September 3, 2021 by SamSuffit

[Paul A]

Do EUCs need wheel balancing like cars after a tyre change?  Wobbles.

Especially now that they are capable of similar high speeds.

[supercurio]

3 hours ago, fbhb said:

Judging from the feedback I have gathered since fitting the CST 6004 myself and from others that have tried it too, I consider the CST 6004 to surpass the renowned H666 in All areas!

@supercurio can most probably chime in here and back up my claims having experienced a range of tires in his recent quest, but it most certainly does offer the best middle ground for stock fitment!

Pure street guys are gonna swap it out for a Conti, Pirelli, Michelin etc. and pure off road guys will want to go with a knobby - can't please everyone so the Best compromise/All round tire is the Only solution IMHO.

I haven't tried the H666 yet, but it's installed on the motor of the 16X I'm currently rebuilding with new inner shell.

The H666 has a markedly softer carcass so I wouldn't expect to ride the same as the C6004. My guess is that a harder tire is better suited for a heavier wheel - as long as it helps keeping its profile under load and in turns. I'm curious to check soon!

 

Since I went from Michelin City Pro 80/90-24 to C6004, I wouldn't recommend anyone anyone to swap to the Michelin even for pure street use: the C6004 makes a vastly superior EUC street tire.

Beware also of picking too wide street tires if you want to swap. It can make turning difficult, the Michelin was pretty bad here whereas a 70/90 variant is very nimble and carve easily, but then it's so low profile that you put the rim at risk and bring down the pedals significantly. The 80/90 rode like it was square due to the width, Sherman V2 wide rim, and the low pressure requirement making its profile collapse.

That's why although the S20 will support very wide tires, on an EUC there is a point of diminishing return regarding width, unless its design is exceptionally good at keeping a round/pointy profile. It's good for thick knobs tho 

IMO the C6004 is not a default choice as a compromise on everything, it's the superior option for most scenarios.

[Paul A]

Begode Hero was originally priced at $4100 USD.

Price now $2899 USD, with free shipping to USA.

Magically dropped when details of S20 released.

Following link courtesy of member 'ugoaps' posted on the Begode forum thread.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005003217781632.html

 

Think manufacturers can absorb cost and give away a free tyre.

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, SamSuffit said:

I tried it on Inmotion v11 batch 3 (and i currently have bearings issues). Impossible for me to keep it centered. Result: the wheel wobbles at medium or high speed. How were you able to have it centered and not moving?

Edit: exact specification of the tire i tried: Heidenau K66 M+S Snowtex 80/80-14 43J

I suspect you had too high tire pressure. I rode at 30psi with 95kg geared weight. On the 80/90 version. 

Just by letting out a little air it felt easier to ride. @mrelwood and I have debated this a bit so I think he will laugh when reading this comment. 

I started higher as it kept me on the edge not going too fast after my drive board died on me at 30kmh. But after mounting a new board it works fine now, by it did dent my trust initially. 

It is the same feeling I had with the KS16X first batch tire (CX). But not as strong behaviour on the V11. I use to explain this as standing on V Vs an U shaped tire (sensation). Letting out a bit of air it becomes more like (_).

There is a fine line on having too little air  (risking rim damage or snake bit puncture on tube) Vs right pressure Vs too high pressure (make it unstable to balance). It also helps me to stand a bit more duck feet.

Now this sensation is linked to how high pedals are too. So it ties into how each model is constructed too. I have no experience with S20, but I expect it would work just as great on this wheel (for me) as I find it to work on V11 (see my review of V11 for more details).

I explained above here in this thread why I see this as unique great tire.