Kingsong S18 Tire Discussion

[fbhb]

16 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

(it probably doesn't help that I ride an MTen3 in addition to the 16X and S18... three wheels with radically different turning characteristics)

I actually think in the long term it helps hone your riding skills to have wheels that handle completely differently!

I, like you have three wheels, the Sherman, the S18 and last (but definitely not least in the extreme handling department) the Z10, so also a very wildly differing collection of wheels in the handling/turning department.

It's All Good IMHO!

Edited December 22, 2021 by fbhb

[5Cauac]

15 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

The odd turning characteristics on pavement are likely just me needing to "get used to it

Have you tried lowering the pedals to drop the center of gravity a bit? You may find it helps. Being that the tread alone adds extra height this may be why you are having a hard time adjusting. 

24 minutes ago, Foo Barstein said:

I couldn't find the TR-1 in the US, so I've just put in the order from Amazon Japan

You may be surprised how quickly it arrives from Japan, I know I was. I waited longer for my Russian Pads.  Your going to love the tire. 

[Tawpie]

7 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

Have you tried lowering the pedals to drop the center of gravity a bit?

They're set in the middle, I haven't tried changing them... i was going to go 'up' because of pedal strikes, but this is a good suggestion for when I've got more space around me. I've been trying not to ride it too much on the pavement though, I'm wanting to preserve the tread for the dirt, rocks and snow. To me "trials" means "grippy, and consequently quite soft compound", I don't know that it's true but since I have a wheel I really like on the street there's no pressing reason to use the S18 (and curse it for lack of range).

[5Cauac]

13 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

....but since I have a wheel I really like on the street there's no pressing reason to use the S18 (and curse it for lack of range).

Exactly my friend.  

16 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

i was going to go 'up' because of pedal strikes, but this is a good suggestion for when I've got more space around me.

I have mine set to the top due to the fact that I like to really ride the walls of berms (lots of fun!) and for traversing rocky terrain.

 

 

[Tawpie]

One thing I should say about the S18 and the TR1, and I don't know if it's the tire or the larger wheel. It simply does NOT insist on turning into a slope the way the H666 on my 16X does, so being in the narrow single track trenches isn't a total nail biter. When the TR1 gets a little on a sloped side of the trench, it continues to track straight and that in itself is reason enough to love the tire. Granted, I've never had a street tire on the S18 so this could just be the larger diameter wheel, but I think it's the tire (softer compound).

[Foo Barstein]

1 hour ago, 5Cauac said:

You may be surprised how quickly it arrives from Japan, I know I was. I waited longer for my Russian Pads.

Which Russian pads did you order?  I'm in Kazakhstan for a few weeks... maybe shipping is faster to here!

[5Cauac]

25 minutes ago, Foo Barstein said:

Which Russian pads did you order?  I'm in Kazakhstan for a few weeks... maybe shipping is faster to here!

The ones from mono customize on instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/mono_customize/?fbclid=IwAR1Rg5pXM65ry2-SncD9rG2P6UqlNKMtxJl-_ADHunhDSza1HtUBKZACXE0

 

[Funky]

Could anyone tell me how wide would TR1 tire be?

(Width)

[Foo Barstein]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Could anyone tell me how wide would TR1 tire be?

 

Amazon says 2.75-14.  From @mrelwood's tire sizes explanation, I take it to mean that the width is 2.75 inches from one sidewall to another + any horizontal knobbiness.

On 7/30/2020 at 6:22 PM, mrelwood said:

2.75 - 14  :  Carcass width (inches) "-" rim diameter (inches). This is the imperial motorcycle standard. The width does not include any tread pattern shapes and knobbies, so a 2.75 - 14 tire can have a maximum width of as much as 3.1". Notice that here the width is written before the diameter, and instead of the "x" they are separated by a "-". A few rare shops mess these up though, so while the product page title may read 14 x 2.75, the tire can actually be 2.75 - 14. Or even vice versa, such as the 14 x 2.5 tire that I received when I ordered a 2.5 - 14 tire...

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Foo Barstein

[Funky]

3 hours ago, Foo Barstein said:

Amazon says 2.75-14.  From @mrelwood's tire sizes explanation, I take it to mean that the width is 2.75 inches from one sidewall to another + any horizontal knobbiness.

 

Gee thanks.. I did not know that "amazed pikachu face" xD

By tell me, i meant if someone had/could measure it's "true" width, tread (knobs) included.

Because we all know that sizing means nothing.. One tire can be true 2.75, add knobs it be 3.00+

TR1 tire doesn't have much side knobs, so it could be on smaller size.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Funky

[5Cauac]

6 hours ago, Funky said:

Could anyone tell me how wide would TR1 tire be?

Sorry but i don't own any calipers to give you an accurate width. I suppose I can use the string method. Hopefully someone can chime in with the answer as I wont be home for several hours to check. 

[Tawpie]

 

2 hours ago, Funky said:

By tell me, i meant if someone had/could measure it's "true" width, tread (knobs) included.

mine when inflated to 25 psi measures 68.2mm, the knobs do extend past the sidewall maybe 1-2 mm.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Tawpie

[mrelwood]

 

7 hours ago, Tawpie said:

When the TR1 gets a little on a sloped side of the trench, it continues to track straight and that in itself is reason enough to love the tire. Granted, I've never had a street tire on the S18 so this could just be the larger diameter wheel, but I think it's the tire (softer compound).

It’s the knobs. All knobby tires behave like that, no matter how hard the compound. I guess the camber effect is diminished due to the lack of a solid surface.

And if you think about it, it’s the exact same behavior that causes the wheel to go almost straight when tilted for a turn or a carve on flat ground. And that’s why knobbies are difficult at first, and feel like the wheel would fall into the turn.

[Funky]

30 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

 

mine when inflated to 25 psi measures 68.2mm, the knobs do extend past the sidewall maybe 1-2 mm.

Thanks a lot  Could you maybe measure the height also? From where rim/tire meet to ground?

Edited December 22, 2021 by Funky

[Tawpie]

roughly 66 maybe 67 mm, but it's not a precise measurement (parallax, the picture looks more 'off' than it is)

Edited December 22, 2021 by Tawpie

[Funky]

3 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

roughly 66 maybe 67 mm, but it's not an easy measurement (parallax, the picture looks more 'off' than it is)

Hmm this tire could work for me. Thanks a lot, again.

A the moment Michelin City PRO 70/90-14 was my first choice.

Now thinking about this tire (Shipping cost more than tire doh xD)

[Funky]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

 

It’s the knobs. All knobby tires behave like that, no matter how hard the compound. I guess the camber effect is diminished due to the lack of a solid surface.

And if you think about it, it’s the exact same behavior that causes the wheel to go almost straight when tilted for a turn or a carve on flat ground. And that’s why knobbies are difficult at first, and feel like the wheel would fall into the turn.

Can you explain that more?

You mean knobby tires, don't want to turn? Because ridding straight, ground contact middle knobs, to turn tire needs to contact next knobs that are left/right from middle knobs?

It' feels like euc doesn't want to turn and suddenly it turns hard?

Edited December 22, 2021 by Funky

[Twerd68]

I can’t find the TR-1 in the correct 2.75 x 14 size anywhere in the USA. Tried finding it on the Japanese Amazon site but probably did it wrong. Any intel here would be most appreciated. The original tire does not cut it in the Chicago winter even though unusually warm this year. 

[5Cauac]

43 minutes ago, Twerd68 said:

I can’t find the TR-1 in the correct 2.75 x 14 size anywhere in the us. Tried finding it on the Japanese Amazon site but probably did it wrong. Any intel here would be most appreciated. The original tire does not cut it off n the Chicago winter even though unusually warm this year. 

https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Inoue-Rubber-Motorcycle-2-75-14-321427/dp/B0042ZBYAY

[WillCO]

22 hours ago, 5Cauac said:

Exactly my friend.  

I have mine set to the top due to the fact that I like to really ride the walls of berms (lots of fun!) and for traversing rocky terrain.

 

 

Last 2 times I've been down is due to clipping pedals (ruts!).  About to raise them.
BTW @5Cauac, with all us converts IRC should get you some commission cash....  

[5Cauac]

2 hours ago, WillCO said:

BTW @5Cauac, with all us converts IRC should get you some commission cash....  

Wouldn't that be nice.  

I remember thinking to myself back when they were out of stock for months if the company ever wonders why their one off sales for the tire has sky rocketed. 

[ Enter meme here ]

Edited December 23, 2021 by 5Cauac

[mrelwood]

On 12/22/2021 at 7:45 PM, Funky said:

Can you explain that more?

You mean knobby tires, don't want to turn?

Yes.

Quote

Because ridding straight, ground contact middle knobs, to turn tire needs to contact next knobs that are left/right from middle knobs?

I don’t think it’s about that. The IRC SN-26 doesn’t have the knobs in rows, but it still turns like a knobby. To me it would make sense if the knobs can for example rotate slightly during the various steps of the ground contact, so that the forces that usually makes the wheel turn are wasted in twisting the knobs instead.

I could of course be completely wrong with this theory. All I know is that knobby tires must be tilted much further than regular ones for them to make the wheel turn the same amount.

The only time I ever got the pedals of my MSX to touch ground on a flat surface was with a knobby, the C-186.

Quote

It' feels like euc doesn't want to turn and suddenly it turns hard?

I haven’t felt that kind of behavior in any tire, so I have no idea what’s going on there. Either your riding technique can explain the sudden hard turning, or it’s a trait of the TR-1. The C-186 is quite similar in layout, but I think the rows of knobs might be a bit closer to each other on the C-186. That could indeed point to the row spacing as the cause for the turning to get sharp with a deeper lean.

Edited December 23, 2021 by mrelwood

[brendan12345]

On 11/19/2021 at 12:07 PM, mrelwood said:

80/80 and 80/90 tires can be way off from their designated measures. They can even be nearly identical from one manufacturer, and hugely different from another. Comparing widths with mm detail sounds frustrating.

IRC SN-26, the sizes were nearly identical, and hard to tell apart even when the tires were held side by side.

Heidenau K66, the sizes are hugely different, the 80/80 looking so small when installed that it looks like it would fit inside the 80/90.

 Some 80/80 and even 80/90 tires can be narrower than an 18x3”, or even wider than a 2.75-14”. Usually they’re not though.

 More real life details on tire sizing:

 

Are you saying that the k66 80/90 does not fit on the s18?

[enaon]

2 hours ago, brendan12345 said:

Are you saying that the k66 80/90 does not fit on the s18?

my guess is no, I fitted the metzeler sportec 80/90, but it is not really usable over 25 psi, one mm clearance at most on the sides. I think 70/90 is the correct size for s18, or 80/80, but 80/80 is a close fit too. 

but I think he is saying the Heidenau K66 is a small one, so maybe it will fit?

Edited December 27, 2021 by enaon

[brendan12345]

7 hours ago, enaon said:

my guess is no, I fitted the metzeler sportec 80/90, but it is not really usable over 25 psi, one mm clearance at most on the sides. I think 70/90 is the correct size for s18, or 80/80, but 80/80 is a close fit too. 

but I think he is saying the Heidenau K66 is a small one, so maybe it will fit?

NAstyfatPAnts video he shows the fender clearance of a k66 80/80 and by the looks its about an 18.5 inch outside diameter. The stock s18 tire has about a 19.5 inch outside diameter, which is basically the maximum outside diameter for non fender removal etc. 20inches is way too big. And as far as side rubber clearance, it is a lot easier to cut or sand and shim if it is rubbing. So @ mrelwood I would really just like to know the outside diameter of the k66 80/90?? that's if you have it on hand and can measure it etc.. Would be greatly appreciated.