Kingsong S18 Tire Discussion

[Wrd]

25 minutes ago, techyiam said:

If you didn't clean the rim before

Ha ha. I didn’t. It looked clean. And that seemed good enough! 
i used dish soap on just the last foot of tire bead to go on. 
That’s good advice. I’ve got my spray bottle on hand. 
I may need the quick clamps anyway. That bead was tough to squeeze away from the rim even with the tube deflated. 
 

[techyiam]

18 minutes ago, Wrd said:

i used dish soap on just the last foot of tire bead to go on.

That is usuall needed. You may want to wipe off the dish soap as much as you can after the tire is on.

18 minutes ago, Wrd said:

Ha ha. I didn’t. It looked clean. And that seemed good enough!

When you rub your fingers on the rim, it should feel smooth and your fingers should slide on it without friction. 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by techyiam

[mrelwood]

 

On 8/4/2022 at 6:36 AM, Tawpie said:

I just don't like the way the TR1 turns on pavement.

Knobbies are like that, they require a lot more tilt to turn.

On 8/4/2022 at 6:36 AM, Tawpie said:

Oh. My 16XS came with an H666 installed on it and it's fabulous tire on and off road. Its fault is that it tramlines, not really an issue on street once you're aware of it, but when you're riding in a single track trench, it wants to instantly vault its way out of the trench if it even smells the side.

I'm afraid that you're talking about the same feature that makes the TR1 bad on pavement.

What the wall of a trench does is the exact same that tilting the wheel on flat ground does; it moves the contact patch of the tire to the side. Knobbies don't mind much, they still go almost straight, both on pavement and at the side of a trench. H666 though, with it's rounded profile, it reacts, again both on pavement as well as at the side of a trench.

That's why I'm afraid you won't ever find a tire that wouldn't mind a trench yet would turn nicely on flat ground. It's always a compromise.

 

On 8/4/2022 at 6:36 AM, Tawpie said:

Hopefully the K66 doesn't do that, because the very best thing about the TR1 is that it totally ignores the side of the trench and tracks straight even if you ride the trench's wall.

I wish I could tell you otherwise, but I'm afraid the K66 might be even worse at the trenches than the H666.  The K66's profile makes it turn even earlier than the H666.

What you'd need is a tire somewhere in between. I don't know if there's any difference in the profile between the TR1 and the Kenda K262 (Sherman), so you might want to go for something with knobs ordered more like on the Kenda K270. It's not available in a S18 sizing, just to demonstrate a tread pattern.

Would the Kenda K340 or CST C6004 be too street oriented? I've heard good things about them.

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I'm afraid the K66 might be even worse at the trenches than the H666

ooof. I think… no, I know that I don't want H666 type behavior in the trenches. I'm getting dizzy practicing getting the TR1 to do a tight turn on pavement but for now I can live with getting off to go the other way. Someday I'll get the three point turn on a 'big' wheel into my skillset—the TR1 has made it kind of a priority. Almost there on the MTen!

Now I'm glad I cancelled the order. They claimed it would ship in 6-10 days but had been crickets for a month so I just gave up.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Tawpie

[Ksmack]

8 hours ago, Tawpie said:

ooof. I think… no, I know that I don't want H666 type behavior in the trenches. I'm getting dizzy practicing getting the TR1 to do a tight turn on pavement but for now I can live with getting off to go the other way. Someday I'll get the three point turn on a 'big' wheel into my skillset—the TR1 has made it kind of a priority. Almost there on the MTen!

Now I'm glad I cancelled the order. They claimed it would ship in 6-10 days but had been crickets for a month so I just gave up.

I’ve got the H666 on my 16X and the K66 on my S18. The K66 has minimal to no tramlining in my experience. It is also quite nimble. I think it is quite a bit better than the H666. The rubber is also much stiffer on the side walls. It feels far more substantial. I’ve got about 600 miles on it now both on and off road and it has been great. 

I got the 80-90-14 variant and it has been a pain to install and work with. Honestly wish I had gone the 80-80-14. I ended up trimming the edges of the tire and removing the rear piece of the fender on the S18 to get it to fit. I’m going to custom print a mud guard replacement as the shock and linkages get really dirty. 

[Funky]

I love mine K66 and i ride 90% asphalt. It feels the same as CST C-1488. (Or at least i don't feel difference..)

[brendan12345]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:29 AM, Wrd said:

FYI. The TR1 in the correct size has been back in stock (or at least available for purchase with delivery in September) for the last three days. So you might be able to get it now. 

Yes, I finnally got my order in on one. Stoked!

[FinRider]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:20 PM, Ksmack said:

I got the 80-90-14 variant and it has been a pain to install and work with. Honestly wish I had gone the 80-80-14. I ended up trimming the edges of the tire and removing the rear piece of the fender on the S18 to get it to fit. I’m going to custom print a mud guard replacement as the shock and linkages get really dirty

I can second this statement. I am running the H666 (Love it!), but when we were looking for a replacement to the original tire (Only good for pavement riding, horrible on single tracks) the H666 was not available so we went with the Heidenau K66 80-90-14. For the S18, this is a tad bit to wide/tall. It will rub. It was annoying for the 1st 200 km, then the tire would "settle in", in other words, it shaved off enough on its own and has since performed great. Quick tip is to slightly over inflate it, ride it until it shaves off the excess and then deflate it to your normal riding pressure.

[Wrd]

My K66 showed up on Aug 29 almost exactly 2 months from the order date. 

I’ve only had the hk666 on for two weeks and I didn’t want to spend another 4-6 hours on a change so I’m riding the hk for now. I’ve got 150+ miles on it and I can ride it hard now, but it sure took some getting used to! Super squirrelly compared to the stock Jiluer J1836. Especially at 45-50psi. I took it down to 35psi and it’s much better. 

One of the other benefits has been that the wheel is slightly better centered now. No longer pulling left. My left knee loves that it’s not constantly pressed on. I can do over-lean carves now too. So to go left: the left knee goes out, right knee pushes the wheel over to the left and vice versa. Love it. The Jiluer in the original mount fought that (dangerously). 

I’m coming to appreciate the hk666’s maneuverability in general. It’s great on the road and good on the trails but bad on hair-pin corners.

It seems like any turn on dirt/gravel with some inertia / good centrifugal force and you slide out. I could take corners much faster with the Jiluer. 
The guy I ride with has the hk666 on his ks16x and now we corner at the same speeds! Ha ha. 

We have a lot of switchbacks on the trails here; I probably hit 8-12 every ride. 

I almost want to mount it backwards. I have the directional arrow going forward over the top, so I think that’s the intended direction.

I attached an image of all three tires. 
From left to right: K66, Jiluer, hk666. 

[mrelwood]

If the wheel is face down in the above photo, the H666 is installed correctly.

45 psi is way too high for any 18" tire, no wonder it behaved badly. 27-37 psi would be my recommended range of extremes. I rode the H666 18x3" at 34 psi, and the K66 80/90-14 now at 28-30 psi. I weigh 238 pounds + gear.

[brendan12345]

On 8/17/2022 at 11:54 PM, brendan12345 said:

Yes, I finnally got my order in on one. Stoked!

So although I was finally able to order a TR-1 a month ago on amazon.co.jp, it says that it still has no shipped!

Not stoked!

[Foo Barstein]

On 9/21/2022 at 4:40 AM, brendan12345 said:

So although I was finally able to order a TR-1 a month ago on amazon.co.jp, it says that it still has no shipped!

Not stoked!

@brendan12345 - stay stoked! I've been riding with the TR-1 for several months and am very happy with the switch.  Hope yours comes soon.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Foo Barstein

[luciferforyou]

I just got an email from Amazon Japan regarding my order on the TR-1:

"We'd judged the item as exportable and accepted orders from overseas. However, we were unable to complete the delivery of the item, because the shipping carrier judged it to be unexportable based on their export standards.
We will send your order back to our site and refund the full price of the item."

Anyone know where else this tire can be purchased from?

[jrhz06]

I’m heading down to Florida in about a month and can bring the TR1 that I took off my s18 when I sold it. Has a few hundred miles on it but no flats and lots of tread left if anyones interested.

update; well that didn’t last long, tire is spoken for.

Edited September 27, 2022 by jrhz06

[enaon]

Can you find the irc GS-45F in the USA? I think it is very nice for the s18. 

https://ircmoto.com/collections/youth/products/kids-motocross-gs-45f

[luciferforyou]

4 hours ago, jrhz06 said:

I’m heading down to Florida in about a month and can bring the TR1 that I took off my s18 when I sold it. Has a few hundred miles on it but no flats and lots of tread left if anyones interested.

I'm not out of Florida but if you'd be willing to ship, I'd happily buy it / pay shipping.  I tried to message you but am unable to do so with my current account status.

[meepmeepmayer]

9 hours ago, luciferforyou said:

I tried to message you but am unable to do so with my current account status.

Messaging now works for you. Crazy how hard it can be to get a simple tire...

[luciferforyou]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Messaging now works for you. Crazy how hard it can be to get a simple tire...

Heyyyy... thank you!!

[brendan12345]

On 9/25/2022 at 2:22 PM, Foo Barstein said:

@brendan12345 - stay stoked! I've been riding with the TR-1 for several months and am very happy with the switch.  Hope yours comes soon.

Ok so one and a half months later it finally says it's shipped. Stoked again!

I'll finally be able to compare it to all the other tires Ive been trying.

[Impoy47]

On 1/17/2022 at 9:17 AM, Whalesmash said:

As an update to some of my previous posts, I decided to move away from the 2.5-14 knobby tire I had mounted. Six months ago I decided to go back towards a more hybrid style tire as the narrow width of the knobby and smaller overall diameter started to get irksome. The decreased range got really annoying since the wheel already doesn't have great range and the twitchiness of the narrower tire was just something I couldn't get around to. I have since been running with a Hiedenau K66 80/90-14 tire and have been much happier. It is definitely a compromise between a dedicated street tire or a knobby, and doesn't do either end of the spectrum as well in either end's dedicated roles, but it sits in a happy middle ground of good general performance. I did have to play with tire pressures a bit in order to find a happy spot, but even at high pressure, I found it to be less dive happy than the knobby I was using. I did have some rubbing problems with this tire though, but I have mitigated it by shoving a few washers between the fender split (visible in the first picture). It will still rub if I really yank it into a turn, but it's only a very light touch and not enough to cause wear to the tire or fender, just produces a bit of noise under high lean.

 

On 1/23/2021 at 10:09 AM, Whalesmash said:

Here's my thoughts on the YX tire after ~100 miles (60/40 Trail/Street) with it:

• Amazing for the trails: Grip is improved leaps and bounds which allows for much more confidence in maintaining speed across varied terrain. For the trails that I frequent, sections that I previously had to be cautious on, I could simply rip through and have the confidence that the tire wouldn't step out on me. This also means I get to take more advantage of the suspension smoothing things out as the combination of speed and MTB shock really let the S-18's colors shine. It's amazing how much the tire change has altered the trail riding behavior. I really think KS should offer a version of the S18 with a knobby tire straight from the factory.
• Vibrations: Surprisingly absent. I don't feel any vibrations coming from the tire. I expect that would change if the knob spacing was a bit more aggressive like the K775 posted above. Personally I don't find myself desiring a more aggressive tread pattern so I am happy with the YX tire I have. 
• Noise: It's a lot louder than the street tire, and actually a little bit louder than the sherman knobby tire (assuming they are travelling at the same speed). 
• Twitchiness/Sensitivity: I notice this a lot less now that I'm much more accustomed to the tire, but it is definitely more sensitive than the original tire. I wouldn't consider this a pro or a con, just something that comes naturally with a swap to a narrower tire.
• High lean instability: It's still there, and I've come to the conclusion that this characteristic has to do with the knob pattern that the tire has. Beyond a certain point, there's just no more knobs. This isn't like the street tire which has a nice rounded profile throughout the curvature of the tire, the knobs only go out to a certain distance, and then there's no more knobs. As I get increasingly accustomed to the tire, I also notice this less and less, but it is important to always remember that I can only lean the wheel a certain amount. More time and muscle memory will probably resolve this eventually.
• Fun on the road still, but not as fun as the street tire: Kind of expected, but there is certainly a small concession made in terms of street performance when switching to the knobby. It's still fun to carve and behaves fine for commuting, but the street tire is obviously going to be better for pure street performance. Personally I think the sacrifice is worth it, but I use my S18 almost exclusively for trails and only occasionally for a few miles commute to work. 
• Mileage is worse: Slight smaller outer diameter, slightly heavier tire, and it's a knobby. I don't have an exact number for the range decrease, but I'd estimate maybe 5-10% decreased range. 

 

On 9/1/2021 at 6:32 PM, 5Cauac said:

This is the tire the S18 SHOULD HAVE came installed with.

It did take a while to get used to as this has different riding characteristics than the stock tire.

Hands down the best upgrade you can get for your S18!!!

Enjoy!

 

 First time post but have been riding commuting and going off trails on my S18. I am at the point where gravel and semi rought trails are harder my stock wheel. I've been extremely lurking on this thread and  looking into 2 knobby tires I'm interested in but noticed that hybrids are also somethingto consider. On the knobby, TR-1 has more reviews but very elusive in the states but only can be ordered in Amazon Japan and the XY tire has been tried by @Whalesmash and available  on Amazon US as posted on this thread. 

Since the TR-1 is very unavailable at the moment, do you think the XY tire from Amazon US would be similar to the TR-1? It seems they have similar pros and cons when it comes to on and offroad handling.  Is it worth waiting for the TR-1 to be available and purchase or should I just  get the XY tire that'sreadilyavailable? Thoughts? Thanks in advance.. 

[Whalesmash]

16 hours ago, Impoy47 said:

 

 

 First time post but have been riding commuting and going off trails on my S18. I am at the point where gravel and semi rought trails are harder my stock wheel. I've been extremely lurking on this thread and  looking into 2 knobby tires I'm interested in but noticed that hybrids are also somethingto consider. On the knobby, TR-1 has more reviews but very elusive in the states but only can be ordered in Amazon Japan and the XY tire has been tried by @Whalesmash and available  on Amazon US as posted on this thread. 

Since the TR-1 is very unavailable at the moment, do you think the XY tire from Amazon US would be similar to the TR-1? It seems they have similar pros and cons when it comes to on and offroad handling.  Is it worth waiting for the TR-1 to be available and purchase or should I just  get the XY tire that'sreadilyavailable? Thoughts? Thanks in advance.. 

It depends on whether or not you are willing to accept the tradeoffs for the YX tire. I personally didn't like all of the ride characteristic changes that the narrower tire offered. If it were me, I would go for the TR1, but the problem is just as you said. It's out of stock and there's no real indication of when or if it will come back in stock. I do not think the YX tire will behave that similarly to the TR1, the difference in tire width makes a very large impact. That said, if you really need a knobby, then I don't think you have much of an option. Perhaps you could send the amazon seller a message and see if they are restocking their TR1s and then go from there.

[fbhb]

22 hours ago, Impoy47 said:

Is it worth waiting for the TR-1 to be available and purchase or should I just  get the XY tire that'sreadilyavailable? Thoughts? Thanks in advance.. 

Another option could be to contact eevee's via phone/email, as they have carried the TR-1 in the past (sadly also out of stock at the moment though).

They may also be able to give you an estimate of availability at their own store, as the TR-1 is by far the better option/perfect combination for the S18 IMO!

[Impoy47]

7 hours ago, Whalesmash said:

 Perhaps you could send the amazon seller a message and see if they are restocking their TR1s and then go from there.

 

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

Another option could be to contact eevee's via phone/email, as they have carried the TR-1 in the past (sadly also out of stock at the moment though).

They may also be able to give you an estimate of availability at their own store, as the TR-1 is by far the better option/perfect combination for the S18 IMO!

Thanks for the input and advice. I had a feeling that  the YX tire at 2.5-14 on knobby thread maybe a little narrow for coverage on pavement. And reading here how some  had some sketchy moments turning and cornering on knobbies on pavement as well. And as for the TR-1, at 2.75-14 it has a little more width and grounded but still has some learning curve to it. I will be returning the YX tire, which would be easy to do on Amazon US. 

I sent Amazon Jp a message and miraculously one was available for order!! I made sure it's the correct size and item. Haha.. I  put it in cart and clicked buy! Estimated shipping and delivered by the end of the month! Just waiting on the shipped status.. Fingers crossed. Thanks again! 

[EUC Forest]

The CST 186 is close to the TR1 and perhaps more available in your country (very available in Europe.) I am very happy with this tire on my S18 for mostly offroad and some road.

[novazeus]

my stubborness is only exceeded by my laziness.

after riding yesterday on this pos jiluer j1836 and just hating every minute of it, i researched last night how difficult it would be to change the tire for me. i hate this tire. 

so deciding that i just don't have the time or a place to do such a disassembly, i lowered the tire pressure from 41psi to 35psi, and now i hate this tire less. the s22 knobby at 41 psi, is fine. the jiluer pos is practically unrideable at the 41psi sidewall pressure. why king song would advertise their wheel with one tire and then ship consumers a totally different tire is fraud.