Kingsong S18 Tire Discussion

[Ksmack]

Got the K66 80/90 and installed it tonight. I feel like I’ve made a terrible mistake. I tried the washer on axel method, but still get terrible rubbing. The wheel is basically unrideable right now. I wish I had gone with the 80/80 version instead and traded off the smaller size for more torque and way less headache. This is going to waste a weekend to fix. I don’t want to get rid of the inner fender. I’m so annoyed right now. 

Another issue is that the wheel itself is a bit further to the right. I replaced the washer shims on either side (made sure to keep track of them). The wheel was a bit off center when I got it. Not sure how to get it aligned so that it is truly in the center. 

[OldFartRides]

Before your wheel can find its center, you must first find your center, Grasshopper.

Seriously, these are tricky to get set up right with the suspension and all. IMHO, spreading the slider tubes apart by jamming spacers (washers) in between the hub and the sliders is an agregious hack. I’ve read of people reforming the inner fender with heat so that it has a bit of clearance, but I didn’t need to with the H-666. (Mine rubs just a smidge on left cuts when slaloming).

All that said, is there any excess tread on outer edge of said tire ? ….Hint hint, ( razor knife ).

[Funky]

3 hours ago, Ksmack said:

Got the K66 80/90 and installed it tonight. I feel like I’ve made a terrible mistake. I tried the washer on axel method, but still get terrible rubbing. The wheel is basically unrideable right now. I wish I had gone with the 80/80 version instead and traded off the smaller size for more torque and way less headache. This is going to waste a weekend to fix. I don’t want to get rid of the inner fender. I’m so annoyed right now. 

Another issue is that the wheel itself is a bit further to the right. I replaced the washer shims on either side (made sure to keep track of them). The wheel was a bit off center when I got it. Not sure how to get it aligned so that it is truly in the center. 

Is rubbing happening width wise or height wise? If it's in width - you can always cut sides.. I did that to my K66 80/80.. Because 76m wide i can't use on my 18xl.. After cutting it became 68mm wide. And it fit perfectly on my 18xl then. I used simple "box-cutter". Took me 1hr.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Funky

[Ksmack]

4 hours ago, Funky said:

Is rubbing happening width wise or height wise? If it's in width - you can always cut sides.. I did that to my K66 80/80.. Because 76m wide i can't use on my 18xl.. After cutting it became 68mm wide. And it fit perfectly on my 18xl then. I used simple "box-cutter". Took me 1hr.

It is a combination of not being centered on the axel and the width being too big. This is a dumb question,  but how and where did you use the box cutters to trim the tire? I don’t want the tire to become unevenly balanced. Also, is there a fast way to get rid of all the little rubber tentacles?

[Tawpie]

38 minutes ago, Ksmack said:

get rid of all the little rubber tentacles

Ride it!

38 minutes ago, Ksmack said:

is there a fast way

A controlled freespin while lightly 'sanding' the tire against a curb will work. But you have to really be able to control the thing. This can also work for reducing the height of the side tread blocks but only if the tire will turn. Otherwise it's a tedious chore to cut the tops off of the side blocks one by one. I'm pretty sure the YT rabbit hole has videos.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Ksmack said:

It is a combination of not being centered on the axel and the width being too big. This is a dumb question,  but how and where did you use the box cutters to trim the tire? I don’t want the tire to become unevenly balanced. Also, is there a fast way to get rid of all the little rubber tentacles?

Check out my post. It shows where i cut it:

 

[Ksmack]

It looks like 90% of my problems are because the wheel is not centered wrt to the body. The wheel is aligned front to back and spins without wobble, but is closer to the right than the left. If I draw a line down the middle of the case, then the center of the tire is 3.6 mm off that centerline to the right. I need to move the center of the tire 3.6mm to the left to get it centered. Additionally, the center of the fender is 0.65mm off to the right of the center line. 
 

How do I get the wheel+axel dead center?

[NErider]

I left the little rubber tentacles on. For my  use, it helps clear dirt from the fender. So far only the ones  on the center have worn away. 

[Funky]

33 minutes ago, Ksmack said:

It looks like 90% of my problems are because the wheel is not centered wrt to the body. The wheel is aligned front to back and spins without wobble, but is closer to the right than the left. If I draw a line down the middle of the case, then the center of the tire is 3.6 mm off that centerline to the right. I need to move the center of the tire 3.6mm to the left to get it centered. Additionally, the center of the fender is 0.65mm off to the right of the center line. 
 

How do I get the wheel+axel dead center?

Get smallest washer you can and add that to axle one side. Should work..

[Ksmack]

Ok, some progress. I tried again this afternoon. I managed to get the wheel centered after about three hours of trial and error the tire is much better aligned. After trying many different washer/shim combinations what worked was:

1) Removing the stock shims sitting on the axels on both sides. One side had a single shine while the other had two shims. With the tire centered they caused a lot of rubbing with the fender. 
 

2) Adding on both sides a larger diameter washer that is 2mm thick that sits on top of the 10 mm thick axel washers. This only pushes the inner fender outwards and does not push the sliders outwards. 
 

3) Alternating how I tighten the axel bolts. I went back and forth between the sides making adjustments to the tire between steps. When things were close, I tightened the outside bolts on one side first then moved to the other side. 

There is still some rubbing on one side of the back fender.  The back fender is slightly deformed I think. It is annoying, but way better than yesterday. I’m going to try the tire trimming method tomorrow to see if that helps.
 

Now the not so great news. I think the sliders are slightly misaligned. I’ve put a lot of work into improving the linkages and switching over to a coil shock. I had a really smooth and plush ride. Now there is some binding in the sliders . I wonder if it os related to removing the stock shims that sit on top of the axel bolts?

I’ve got an H666 18x3 tire coming this weekend  if I can’t get things to ride smoothly with the K66 without rubbing, I’m going to just switch to that one  I’ve got it on my 16X and really like it  

I feel like I’ve spent more time working on this wheel the past two months than actually riding it.  

[OldFartRides]

It takes a good bit of study and a good  bit of fiddling to get these to a happy place. There’s a lot going on. While you’re waiting on the tire you can do some reading of the exhaustive threads on the subject here. Might pick up some useful nuggets.

Best,

[Ksmack]

2 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

It takes a good bit of study and a good  bit of fiddling to get these to a happy place. There’s a lot going on. While you’re waiting on the tire you can do some reading of the exhaustive threads on the subject here. Might pick up some useful nuggets.

Best,

Thanks. I’ve gone through those threads, including your comprehensive rebuild. Sometimes it feels like trying to solve the problem of the farmer trying to cross the river with the chicken, fox, and corn. 
 

It would be helpful to have an algorithm to follow for changing a tire. For example, tighten these axel bolts first x amount, then check tire alignment, then tighten the other bolts y amount, then check suspension travel, and so on. 
 

I also found it helpful to use a piece of double sided tape to temporarily hold the rear battery pack to the inner fender on the motor cable side when the case is off. Otherwise it can flop around. I had part of the cable tray from the battery to motherboard break. Tape helps prevent this. 

[enaon]

11 hours ago, Ksmack said:

I also found it helpful to use a piece of double sided tape to temporarily hold the rear battery pack to the inner fender on the motor cable side when the case is off. Otherwise it can flop around. I had part of the cable tray from the battery to motherboard break. Tape helps prevent this. 

 

you do not need to take the side panels out for a tyre change on the s18. A hole here and releasing the bottom screw on the sock is all it needs. 

[Ksmack]

2 hours ago, enaon said:

you do not need to take the side panels out for a tyre change on the s18. A hole here and releasing the bottom screw on the sock is all it needs. 

This is a great tip!!! Thanks!

[Ksmack]

11 hours ago, enaon said:

you do not need to take the side panels out for a tyre change on the s18. A hole here and releasing the bottom screw on the sock is all it needs. 

So I assume once you drill that hole all you need to do is compress the suspension to expose the rest of the screws?

[enaon]

45 minutes ago, Ksmack said:

So I assume once you drill that hole all you need to do is compress the suspension to expose the rest of the screws?

yes, once fully compressed, 5 screws are accessibe, the last one you need the hole to access. Then you can open the box and disconnect the plug. 

[Tawpie]

Haha. Had a real 'duh' moment today.

tldr; If your tire doesn't want to turn, try adding pressure. It might make a huge difference.

When I bought my S18, it had a TR1 already fitted and it seemed fine—but it didn't like to turn around (180 in the road) unless you were going quite quickly. Very scary trying to get it to make a slow tilt turn, so much so I've been contemplating replacing it with an H666. The TR1 has been fine navigating around on the trails which is what it's intended for, but you don't just turn around and go the other way. I had figured I needed to relearn how to turn this tire/wheel... but I wasn't getting any better.

My concern with the H666 (I have this on my 16XS.LR) is that when you catch the side of the single track trench, it violently tries to climb out of the trench (tramlining to the max). The TR1 doesn't do that at all, I don't want to give that up but the turning sucked so badly I was starting to really dislike the TR1.

So before jumping off the cliff and into at least 1 tire change, I decided to take the pressure on the TR1 way up. 35 psi instead of my normal 25 psi. Understand, I am a bantam featherweight so 25 has always been a "firm" pressure, and I do like the extra bit of cush it brings to the party.

 Holy turnstile Batman! Well, not quite that good, but the change is dramatic. Yes, in my mind I know that profile matters and that more pressure will round the profile. But I had no idea it would change a tire that refused to turn into one that is on the good side of good enough. Not great (not an H666), but at least I'm not seriously considering a dismount in order to reverse direction on a paved road. The only downside is I lose that cush I got from the lower pressure and I probably need a coil over to get it back. Oh well, with any luck the S22 will eventually arrive and I can move on to new and different annoyances.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Tawpie

[brendan12345]

So I've wanted to get a TR-1 for 6 months but everytime I go to the amazon japan page it says it is currently unavailable and there is no link to alert me when its available or email seller. I see other people are getting these tires. I have tried using a US proxy as I was thinking I may need to use a shipping forwarding company but just can't seem to buy this tire no matter what I try. Any tips?

 

[Wrd]

Tire challenges part 1:

I went looking for the TR-1 on Amazon.co.jp and it was out of stock, but showed up available a few days later. Woo hoo!
I ordered it. It showed up today (15 days later, not too bad). But oh no!

I ordered the wrong size!
Ouch! I was searching the site for alternative tires and I must’ve settled on the wrong search result when I thought I was coming back to the same tire. Arg!

Moral of the story: be sure that you buy the 2.75–14. 

I now have a tire for a 15 inch rim that I should return. 

Part 2:
I was probably shopping under pressure because my order from racingplanetusa for the Heidenau K66 80/90-14 46P from the end of June (reportedly in stock at the time) still hasn’t shipped.
That’s super awkward. I could chill if the order status was updated; or if  they responded to phone, email or help tickets. I can only hope it shipped from Italy and it’ll just show up some day. 

Part 3:

I haven’t been riding for weeks now, because my original Jileur J1836 tire is so bald that the threads are exposed (2180 miles).

I saw that ewheels had the cy h666 in-stock a few weeks ago, which might be compatible, but I’m not super excited about that or getting another Jileur. 

[Tawpie]

Yikes. Fumble fingers while making international e-orders, I have that nightmare too.

Don't feel alone about not hearing from racingplanet, I ordered an 80/80 (for the S18) and an 80/90 (for the might-arrive-someday-eventually-S22) a couple weeks after you did and... crickets. They were quoting 6-10 shipping lead-times and that clock has expired.

FWIW, the reason I ordered the K66 for the S18 when I have a perfectly good TR1 already installed is that I just don't like the way the TR1 turns on pavement. Off road making technical maneuvers it's absolutely fine, but (on and off road) doing a 180 slow turn remains a harrowing experience for me. It got less awful when I increased the tire pressure, but it's a trials tire with relatively soft rubber and I'd don't want to be riding just on the center set of knobs so I went back to my old pressure (it's cushier anyway)... and dismounting when I need to turn around and go the other way. It's not exactly a deal breaker, but it is annoying every. single. time. All things have their good side, and their dark. I'm not madly in love with the TR1.

Oh. My 16XS came with an H666 installed on it and it's fabulous tire on and off road. Its fault is that it tramlines, not really an issue on street once you're aware of it, but when you're riding in a single track trench, it wants to instantly vault its way out of the trench if it even smells the side. That's why it's not a candidate for my S18 but if it weren't for that, I'd already have one fitted. Hopefully the K66 doesn't do that, because the very best thing about the TR1 is that it totally ignores the side of the trench and tracks straight even if you ride the trench's wall.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Tawpie

[Wrd]

On 7/24/2022 at 6:30 PM, brendan12345 said:

So I've wanted to get a TR-1 for 6 months but everytime I go to the amazon japan page it says it is currently unavailable and there is no link to alert me when its available or email seller. I see other people are getting these tires. I have tried using a US proxy as I was thinking I may need to use a shipping forwarding company but just can't seem to buy this tire no matter what I try. Any tips?

 

FYI. The TR1 in the correct size has been back in stock (or at least available for purchase with delivery in September) for the last three days. So you might be able to get it now. 

[Tawpie]

On 8/3/2022 at 8:00 PM, Wrd said:

I was probably shopping under pressure because my order from racingplanetusa for the Heidenau K66 80/90-14 46P from the end of June (reportedly in stock at the time) still hasn’t shipped.
That’s super awkward. I could chill if the order status was updated; or if  they responded to phone, email or help tickets. I can only hope it shipped from Italy and it’ll just show up some day. 

I got tired of waiting... my order was stuck in "payment completed", so I sent an email asking to cancel. They refunded my money in 24 hours. My guess is they're accumulating enough orders to make a minimum order quantity, and then will place the actual order.

But at least they didn't give me any hassle cancelling the order.

[Wrd]

On 8/3/2022 at 8:36 PM, Tawpie said:

H666 installed on it and it's fabulous tire on and off road

Thanks Tawpie. 
The H triple six came right on time thanks to ewheels, and I started the install yesterday.

I went with the minimal disassembly method and that seems to have worked pretty well. I only had to pull the pedals, hangers and my motor cable protector. 
 

I had to pry the case out on the left side a bit to be able to reach that bottom left screw on the electrical connector cover.
I really didn’t wanna drill a hole in the frame  or take any of the sides off unnecessarily. Partially because my jump pads were epoxied in place.

I will say, I chewed up head of that screw pretty badly. It won’t be going back in. But there was room enough for an L-shaped screwdriver. I have some black silicone sealant I might just plug the hole with. 
 

The bead on the new tire was predictably tough. I got it on with my MTB tire spoons and everything went well, however once mounted back on the S18 I noticed that that tire itself is snaking left and right. I checked that  the rim was still true, and it is. So I think the bead must not be seated evenly. I deflated a couple times and rolled around but that didn’t do it.

So I think I’ll have to get out my quick clamps try and pull the bead away from the rim every inch or so try to get it seated really well. 
 

Side note: I paid special attention to the shims on my axle. I believe I have a V2. They were washers. On one side, 2 of them were stacked together. Good grief!

I dripped some glue on them to keep them in place for the reassembly. With the tire snaking around I can’t even tell if the wheel is plumb anyway. 

[Wrd]

8 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

got tired of waiting...

Ah, I get that. I just got a reply from them, Thursday: 

“It is taking a little longer for us to receive tires. I should arrive this coming week to the US warehouse. Please advise if you still want to wait for the shipment. 

Sorry about the delay. 

Team RP USA”

I’ll keep waiting, since it seems like it will get here eventually. Not quite willing to order the TR1 again yet. Maybe if the next tire change is easier, I’ll be more willing to swap. 

[techyiam]

37 minutes ago, Wrd said:

So I think I’ll have to get out my quick clamps try and pull the bead away from the rim every inch or so try to get it seated really well. 

It may help if you use some lubricant on the bead first. Dish soap is effective but too effective. Tire may rotate about the rim when you accelerate or brake, putting stress on the valve stem. Instead you can just use water. Fully deflate the tire. Unseat the tire bead on both sides. Use an artist brush, super cheap at a dollar store, dip in a bowl of water, and wet the beads all the way around. You can wet the rim too. Inflate thectire with just a bit of air. Unbead again with just your fingers. Put in a bit more air. Unbead as much as you can with your fingers. Repeat again and again until you can't unbead. Then just inflate to your tire pressure. 

If you didn't clean the rim before mounting your tire, you need do it before you inflate the tire. After you have unbead your tire, you can use cotton ball wetted with WD40, and wipe down the rim on both sides.

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by techyiam