King Song S18 Discussion

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Donaldp751 said:

I repaired my battery pack last fall when I cracked a nickel strip in one

Since you fixed yours and nothing seems to have burned down you are in my eyes, an expert! Would you be interested in looking at my pack? Money would of course change hands... I had an anomaly with charging in the fall and suspect a broken nickel strip — replaced the packs but wouldn't mind resurrecting the old ones!

Edited February 20, 2023 by Tawpie

[Donaldp751]

22 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Since you fixed yours and nothing seems to have burned down you are in my eyes, an expert! Would you be interested in looking at my pack? Money would of course change hands... I had an anomaly with charging in the fall and suspect a broken nickel strip — replaced the packs but wouldn't mind resurrecting the old ones!

I think that could be possible, shoot me a message though and let's chat and see if it's something I can help with.

[jacobjj]

I picked up an s18 with only 60miles on it, the previous owner had replaced the tyre with a big knobby and removed the fender

I wanted to put a tr1 tyre on it and replace the fender, so picked up the parts and put it all back, I also tuned the suspension as per some of the great in depth posts on here, everything was moving nice and free

 

Until I went to clamp down the motor bolts, as soon as I tighten them hard the suspension binds up completely, I tried adding shims of various sizes on both sides, or one side, probably undid and re did the bolts at least 30 times over two full days, I just can't figure it out! 

 

I have resorted to only tightening them up, not really hard, and the suspension is free, but doesn't feel ideal like that.

 

Any ideas? 

[fbhb]

42 minutes ago, jacobjj said:

I have resorted to only tightening them up, not really hard, and the suspension is free, but doesn't feel ideal like that.

 

Any ideas? 

You really should make sure All 8 axle bolts are tightened/torqued up fully, as leaving them partially tightened/just nipped up can lead to problems with vibrations (or worse) from the Hall Sensors not reading the motors position correctly if they gradually work themselves loose!

In this Suspension Overhaul topic, I originally wrote in 2020, there is an edit I made dated 24/09/2022 describing the reason why tightening the axle clamps binds the suspension (very poor King Song axle machining tolerances) and a solution to fix the issue.

The whole topic is a big read, but if you scroll through to the edit mentioned above you should find some help to solve your binding issues for good.

Hope this helps.

Edited February 22, 2023 by fbhb

[jacobjj]

Thanks 

I have read your in depth edit quite a few times but the process is a little beyond me! I don't even own a file 😬, was hoping to be able to level it just using shims but I may need to pull it all apart again and try again 

[OldFartRides]

Yes, it’s quite a pain. Good on ya for the effort. I spent many hours on it. One of the issues I faced was the axle spacers forcing the slider tubes out of parallel. That’s one thing. Another is that when the wheel is upside down, the slider castings  look like a cradle with a bottom and two sloping sides. The axle has to “nestle” into both cradles perfectly flat. The sloped sides were a bit narrow on one casting which held the axle up off of the flat side as well, creating a gap. Even if I shimmed the gap, that left the axle crooked when tightening. Tell ya what, I’ve always wanted to come back to Oz. Why don’t i just come help you with it for fun…

Heres another page to look at :

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/17867-king-song-s18-discussion/page/143/

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by OldFartRides

[Ksmack]

3 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Yes, it’s quite a pain. Good on ya for the effort. I spent many hours on it. One of the issues I faced was the axle spacers forcing the slider tubes out of parallel. That’s one thing. Another is that when the wheel is upside down, the slider castings  look like a cradle with a bottom and two sloping sides. The axle has to “nestle” into both cradles perfectly flat. The sloped sides were a bit narrow on one casting which held the axle up off of the flat side as well, creating a gap. Even if I shimmed the gap, that left the axle crooked when tightening. Tell ya what, I’ve always wanted to come back to Oz. Why don’t i just come help you with it for fun…

Heres another page to look at :

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/17867-king-song-s18-discussion/page/143/

 

My solution is not ideal, but has held up for nearly 2000 miles. After figuring out what shim set works best (not perfect, but best) I start by tightening the bolts on the non-motor wire side to about 80-90% while doing my best to keep the rim centered in the wheel well. Then I switch to the other side and tighten this bolts in a cross pattern to 80-90%. I then tighten the two bolts closest to the motor on the non-cable side to about 95% followed by the two bolts furthest from the axle. I switch to the other side and do the same thing. Every time I switch I try to make sure the motor stays in the center. Doing this iteratively (it can take hours) I can get 7 out of the 8 axel screws fully tightened and on of them just short of tight and have the sliders move freely. I haven’t noticed any major vibrations from this.

I bought my wheel new and the sliders were pretty sticky from the factory due to misalignment.  

[Tawpie]

9 hours ago, jacobjj said:

I picked up an s18 with only 60miles on it, the previous owner had replaced the tyre with a big knobby and removed the fender

I wanted to put a tr1 tyre on it and replace the fender, so picked up the parts and put it all back, I also tuned the suspension as per some of the great in depth posts on here, everything was moving nice and free

 

Until I went to clamp down the motor bolts, as soon as I tighten them hard the suspension binds up completely, I tried adding shims of various sizes on both sides, or one side, probably undid and re did the bolts at least 30 times over two full days, I just can't figure it out! 

 

I have resorted to only tightening them up, not really hard, and the suspension is free, but doesn't feel ideal like that.

 

Any ideas? 

I was lucky and only had to use 1 shim on mine, but was super retentive in the tightening process. I used a torque wrench and tightened to low, medium and final torque in cross patterns on both sides, checking for free slider movement after each and every bolt. I did this with the shock disconnected so there was only the sliders and some of the linkage in the equation! The linkage was fully floppy, so it wasn't much of a factor.

If you didn't do it, check the shoulder bolts that hold the top and bottom of the shock and shim those out so tightening them doesn't bind the top/bottom of the shock. You wouldn't think that it'd be a big contributor, but in my case fixing that was maybe even more effective than getting the slider alignment correct (my alignment was corrected by 1 layer of coke can though, not terrible)

[dycus]

Also make sure the axle isn't upside-down. Where the motor cable exits, there is a slot cut in the axle. You might think it would be logical for this slot to face up so the cable exits more easily, but it actually needs to face down!

After a tire change, my suspension suddenly started binding up a lot for some reason. That was the issue in my case, I was putting the motor in upside-down. The probably only machined one of the axle faces to be flat.

[jacobjj]

8 hours ago, dycus said:

Also make sure the axle isn't upside-down. Where the motor cable exits, there is a slot cut in the axle. You might think it would be logical for this slot to face up so the cable exits more easily, but it actually needs to face down!

My slot is sideways on the curved part of the axle! 

 

14 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Tell ya what, I’ve always wanted to come back to Oz. Why don’t i just come help you with it for fun…

Sure I'd love some help with this 😅

 

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'll have another try at this tonight or tomorrow 

[jacobjj]

So I sorted it!

The advice to tighten each bolt slowly and individually is the way

I also put the pedals on, and flipped the wheel upside down and hung it off two chairs, with the motor bolts loose so they could find their groove with the weight of the wheel on them, then tightened each bolt slowly with it sitting like this (was really difficult to get the tool in there with the chair in the way) it was too awkward to tighten fully like that but got it snug, then put the wheel on the table and tightened up all the way, the result, smooth smooth! 

 

Thanks again everyone, I can now ride again 😊

[RJohn]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:28 PM, Ksmack said:

I know you can achieve most of this with the cutting board trick, but I really wanted to redesign things. It is way more functional and has a bit of a mad max vive to it with the silver screws. 
 

This is my first major printing project. I’m surprised at how tough the shell is compared to the original. Definitely an upgrade in impact performance. I haven’t put on the rear bumpers yet. 

You have piqued my curiosity...cutting board trick ?..

Link ?

[NewB]

On 2/23/2023 at 9:58 AM, RJohn said:

You have piqued my curiosity...cutting board trick ?..

Link ?

I was thinking the same thing.

[Ksmack]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:58 AM, RJohn said:

You have piqued my curiosity...cutting board trick ?..

Link ?

Here is a video I saw about this sometime ago. This is what got me thinking about designing and printing my own fairings. 
 

 

[NewB]

3 hours ago, Ksmack said:

Here is a video I saw about this sometime ago. This is what got me thinking about designing and printing my own fairings. 
 

 

Soooooo... Are you thinking about printing more and selling them or making your files public, or would you be willing to share the files with a certain someone (who bears a striking resemblance to me)?

[Ksmack]

29 minutes ago, NewB said:

Soooooo... Are you thinking about printing more and selling them or making your files public, or would you be willing to share the files with a certain someone (who bears a striking resemblance to me)?

Lol. I’m working on getting them up on Thingsverse. 

[NewB]

Let us know when you do!!!!! 

[novazeus]

as i get accustomed to these new to me suspension wheels, with about 150 miles on each now, for me, even though i'm comfortable on both, stock out of the box, the s18 wins because of weight, slimness, trolley handle, yet still is capable of 15-20mph safe speeds on sidewalks and multiuse paths. 

i think the s18 is more manageable on the mean streets, for the unexpected ball, dog, etc, plus less loss if stolen. it gets the job done. 20mph is flying on a path. 15 would be my target speed to be considerate to others and hopefully avert some accidental impact with something or someone. 

tryin to charge both now using storage battery and solar(800w), pretty sunny here, but it will never happen. i'll be firing up the generator soon i'm sure. 

[Paradox]

23 minutes ago, novazeus said:

tryin to charge both now using storage battery and solar(800w), pretty sunny here, but it will never happen. i'll be firing up the generator soon i'm sure. 

Ride to McDonalds, get a coffee and charge up.

[novazeus]

3 minutes ago, Paradox said:

Ride to McDonalds, get a coffee and charge up.

already had my two coffee limit, and i'm in watchful charging mode now. and yes at 19% storage battery left, i had to fire up a generator and switch the s22 to generator power. another plus for the s18, it could be managed/charged with just solar.

[novazeus]

yeah, living offgrid u notice the little things like how much and how charging happens on wheels. being able to charge the s18 using my rinky dink solar 800w, and not begging somebody to fill up my jugs, helps out alot. energy is energy. i don't like to waste mine or exhaustible pollution causing alternatives. i need to repair my windmill for watering the cows. the s18 is still trickling charging but the s22 finished awhile ago. both at 70%. but there's no way to charge the s22 just using solar unless my storage battery at 2200wh is full when i begin.

[Ksmack]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:46 AM, NewB said:

 

Let us know when you do!!!!! 

 

I finally got some time to publish my S18 fairing/side panel design. You can find it here. It is an involved print, but has transformed the wheel for me. After 400 miles of winter riding everything is holding up well. 
 

https://www.printables.com/model/422481-kingsong-s18-side-panel-and-fairing-replacement

 

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Ksmack said:

I finally got some time to publish my S18 fairing/side panel design. You can find it here. It is an involved print, but has transformed the wheel for me. After 400 miles of winter riding everything is holding up well. 
 

https://www.printables.com/model/422481-kingsong-s18-side-panel-and-fairing-replacement

 

Jeepers... now I hafta look into getting a printer. Thank you though!

[daniel1234]

Hi, I am coming back to my s18 after riding t4 and master. I borrowed it to a friend at the moment so he can learn how to ride. 
After year of trail usage (but just 3k km), s18 v3 seems like a wheel to keep. It is an amazing lightweight device with a functional trolley handle - ideal for shopping and commuting. I am thinking about what to do next with s18 -> seems like a shame to sell.

- how hard is replace the cell inside s18 ? is it worth of trouble to reuse original BMS? Since I build vesc onewheel I already have spot welder. P42a are easy to buy in eu.
- I would love to have smart BMS for added safety - but since packs are separated it would mean to buy 2x 20s and 2 x10s BMS. Would S18 run without small back batteries connected? If yes I could have just 2 smart BMS in parallel .

Is there any good example of DIY battery mods for S18 where I could look for inspiration? 
Thank you

[ssup2406]

On 3/13/2023 at 7:33 AM, daniel1234 said:

Is there any good example of DIY battery mods for S18 where I could look for inspiration?

Thanks for asking this, I was thinking of the same exact thing today, I don't own the wheel yet but thinking of buying it (need suspension) and lightweighting it further to fit under a 23kg weight restriction that I am faced with, all this unless the V14 comes out with modular batteries which lowers the weight down to 23 with them removed, very unlikely though, plus S18 v2 molicel seems to be a more mature product.

Could I just remove the 2x 10s and run the wheel in just 2p mode when I need to travel with it as sub 23kgs (a couple of times a month)? Would make the wheel rather front-heavy though right, or might not even work if the firmware checks if that battery is connected to the motherboard,

@Tawpie @ffontana @enaon I saw your discussion in this thread about the batteries, could you provide some insight on whether I could roll at 2s?

Do you all have any other lightweighting tips? I'm planning on taking it on a train with a 23kg limit, go figure! There's no transit at the destination so need a wheel for about 7kms itself. It is 24.2kgs per eevee's (email) and ecodrift (their techblog), need to shave off 1.2kgs, I could remove the pedals before getting on the train but unsure of how much that will reduce the weight by.

@KsmackBTW how does your upgrade affect the weight, I'm gonna print it for sure, less maintenance=better, can I use something like nylon with even lesser infill to make it lighter?

Cheers, thanks everybody for reading and potentially responding!

Edited March 14, 2023 by ssup2406
Had forgotten a phrase in the middle and left sentence incomplete