King Song S18 Discussion

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, NewB said:

Then wouldn't it be better to do one side at a time? 

Definitely.

[Tawpie]

15 hours ago, NewB said:

put Loctite on everything when I put it back together.

plastic safe variety, right? Please say it was all plastic safe.

 

[NewB]

31 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

plastic safe variety, right? Please say it was all plastic safe.

 

Yup.

[NewB]

I am happy to say I took my S18 apart, opened up the motor, and (somehow) took care of the popping noise that was driving me crazy. I want to thank everyone for the patience, encouragement, and tips I have been able to pick up on the way (I am looking at you mrelwood). After putting it all back together, I went out for a test ride, and that crazy noise was gone!

Next, I am going to see if there is any way I can do a bit of sound dampening. I hate the sound the shell makes when I take it off curbs or hit substantial bumps.

[novazeus]

knock on wood, except for the jiluer tire, my s18 is working fine. running higher air pressure in the shock absorber, and aggregate and twigs get caught up making a horrible noise, but they do shake out.

i think once i put on the michelin street pilot 2  on it, the s18 might be my off ranch running errands wheel because of the lighter weight and i’ll be on sidewalks and multiuse paths exclusively.

considering i paid about the same for two king song wheels as i’m paying for one inmotion wheel, i’d say king song price wise was a bargain.

eventually i’ll wash all the glue out of the s22 sliders and maybe put a michelin street pilot 2 on it as well. hopefully they’ll have a permanent solution to the sliders by then

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

hopefully they’ll have a permanent solution to the sliders by then

Patience is a virtue... most wheels eventually get to a point where they're "plenty good enough". If you can stand the wait.

I'm happy to hear your S18 is doing well now—I was rather surprised that it made the top of EUCWorld's 2022 lists… I guess that's why they keep making them!

Edited February 13, 2023 by Tawpie

[OldFartRides]

That’s interesting…a good wheel for “the rest of us” who don’t ride that far or fast,  want suspension, but not crazy heavy.

[NewB]

On 2/13/2023 at 11:50 AM, Tawpie said:

Patience is a virtue... most wheels eventually get to a point where they're "plenty good enough". If you can stand the wait.

I'm happy to hear your S18 is doing well now—I was rather surprised that it made the top of EUCWorld's 2022 lists… I guess that's why they keep making them!

One of the reasons I ordered the S18 was because Kingsong has had plenty of opportunities to "get it right." They still have a way to go in my mind, but I would much rather purchase an "oldie but goodie" as opposed to something that has lots of first gen issues.

The crazy thing is that items like hex head bolts, decent velcro, and aftermarket attachment points are minimal cost factory solutions that can make a major difference to users. After multiple generations of the same complaints and users literally begging manufacturers for reliability and serviceability, one would think wheelmakers would be falling over themselves to make a quality wheel. Maybe when the "gold rush" for faster, longer-range wheels is over, manufacturers will start focusing on serious quality rather than "it is better than it was" or "but this one is different."

While I am on it - why the heck there is no decent kickstand option is beyond me. "Just set it down on its (laughably instable) face" is not a solution, it is a forced necessity. Even an add on with little fold-out wings would ensure it won't blow over in a strong wind or minimally uneven ground. Yeah, I know there is the underengineered Wondway option, but one may as well slap some foam on the front and rest it on that - at least the foam is easily replaceable if/when it falls off.

I guess since EUCs are still niche items in a relatively unstable market, there is not much need of an aftermarket, but it sure would be nice to have some real choice. If I were Kingsong, I would be killing myself to make the S18 the mid-level wheel of choice. Add on batteries, more torque, more robust build, flat sides to open it up for more pad solutions, whatever. We already make it, people keep buying it, so let's make them spend more money on it.

Edited February 14, 2023 by NewB

[Ksmack]

11 minutes ago, NewB said:

One of the reasons I ordered the S18 was because Kingsong has had plenty of opportunities to "get it right." They still have a way to go in my mind, but I would much rather purchase an "oldie but goodie" as opposed to something that has lots of first gen issues.

The crazy thing is that items like hex head bolts, decent velcro, and aftermarket attachment points are minimal cost factory solutions that can make a major difference to users. After multiple generations of the same complaints and users literally begging manufacturers for reliability and serviceability, one would think wheelmakers would be falling over themselves to make a quality wheel. Maybe when the "gold rush" for faster, longer-range wheels is over, manufacturers will start focusing on serious quality rather than "it is better than it was" or "but this one is different."

While I am on it - why the heck there is no decent kickstand option is beyond me. "Just set it down on its (laughably instable) face" is not a solution, it is a forced necessity. Even an add on with little fold-out wings would ensure it won't blow over in a strong wind or minimally uneven ground. Yeah, I know there is the underengineered Wondway option, but one may as well slap some foam on the front and rest it on that - at least the foam is easily replaceable if/when it falls off.

I guess since EUCs are still niche items in a relatively unstable market, there is not much need of an aftermarket, but it sure would be nice to have some real choice. If I were Kingsong, I would be killing myself to make the S18 the mid-level wheel of choice. Add on batteries, more torque, more robust build, flat sides to open it up for more pad solutions, whatever. We already make it, people keep buying it, so let's make them spend more money on it.

Agreed! I finally got so fed up with the shell/fairing on the S18 that I just designed and 3d printed my own. I can’t believe how much better it feels and runs. No more weird creaks and groans.  As a bonus, it is far more protective and has lots of external threaded attachment points. The case makes the wheel even thinner overall. It actually is thinner than my V8f’s widest point! 

[NewB]

8 minutes ago, Ksmack said:

Agreed! I finally got so fed up with the shell/fairing on the S18 that I just designed and 3d printed my own. I can’t believe how much better it feels and runs. No more weird creaks and groans.  As a bonus, it is far more protective and has lots of external threaded attachment points. The case makes the wheel even thinner overall. It actually is thinner than my V8f’s widest point! 

Holy cow! Do you have any pictures?

[Ksmack]

Here are some photos. I decided to make the shell out of a series of smaller prints so that everything fit on my print bed. It is printed out in ABS. There is a center panel held in by 6 screws. When performing a tire change or servicing the sliders this is the only panel that needs to come off. The rest of the shell stays intact. At the front and back on the faces are screw in attachment points. I used threaded heat inserts. I’ve got a custom front bumper that also acts as a very stable stand. At some point I might make a TPU front handle/bumper. I printed out so Grizzla pad clones as well. 
 

Everything fits together nicely. Also, there is much better protection for the sliders. It is harder for dirt to get in there, but it is still pretty easy to lubricate them. 

[Ksmack]

I know you can achieve most of this with the cutting board trick, but I really wanted to redesign things. It is way more functional and has a bit of a mad max vive to it with the silver screws. 
 

This is my first major printing project. I’m surprised at how tough the shell is compared to the original. Definitely an upgrade in impact performance. I haven’t put on the rear bumpers yet. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Ksmack

[NewB]

20 minutes ago, Ksmack said:

I know you can achieve most of this with the cutting board trick, but I really wanted to redesign things. It is way more functional and has a bit of a mad max vive to it with the silver screws. 
 

This is my first major printing project. I’m surprised at how tough the shell is compared to the original. Definitely an upgrade in impact performance. I haven’t put on the rear bumpers yet. 

Beautiful, and exactly what I am talking about. 

[InnerBarrel]

Hello and sorry if this have been covered.  

When I plug in my S18 for charging, it only charges at 1amp if I plug it while it's turned off.  If I plug it while it's turned on, it goes to 2.5amps which is the capacity of the original charger.  Does anyone know if there is a fix for this?

Thanks, 

[Tawpie]

6 minutes ago, InnerBarrel said:

Hello and sorry if this have been covered.  

When I plug in my S18 for charging, it only charges at 1amp if I plug it while it's turned off.  If I plug it while it's turned on, it goes to 2.5amps which is the capacity of the original charger.  Does anyone know if there is a fix for this?

Thanks, 

strange... what firmware version are you on? (you could always just turn it on and then plug in the charger, but what fun is that?)

 

[InnerBarrel]

9 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

strange... what firmware version are you on? (you could always just turn it on and then plug in the charger, but what fun is that?)

 

2.16, yes that is what I do but it can be annoying as I like to charge on a stand and I deactivate the trolley switch so if I have the wheel turned on, sitting on a stand the wheel starts spinning.  So I charge while the wheel is on the ground

[Seba]

55 minutes ago, InnerBarrel said:

Hello and sorry if this have been covered.  

When I plug in my S18 for charging, it only charges at 1amp if I plug it while it's turned off.  If I plug it while it's turned on, it goes to 2.5amps which is the capacity of the original charger.  Does anyone know if there is a fix for this?

Thanks, 

Is it a measured current (using multimeter or displayed in a charger built-in meter) or current displayed in the app?

[InnerBarrel]

5 hours ago, Seba said:

Is it a measured current (using multimeter or displayed in a charger built-in meter) or current displayed in the app?

Current displayed in app and it's the same in KS and EUC world apps.  By checking how much time it takes to charge, I can attest that the apps are accurate 

Edited February 15, 2023 by InnerBarrel

[Tawpie]

@Seba kk. I checked with my eWheels fast charger set to 3A, no difference in the current shown on the charger but EUCWorld doesn't show any current at all if I start the charging with the wheel powered off. I'm on 2.16. Now that my memory is jogged, I do recall EUCWorld not showing current but wasn't aware that it might have been because of the wheel's power state when the charger is turned on. I had some strange charging behavior late last year that prompted me to replace the S18's batteries—I'm hoping it wasn't a very, very, large unnecessary expense!!!

Starting charge with power off (headlight is off)

and starting with power on (headlight is on)

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Tawpie

[Seba]

4 hours ago, InnerBarrel said:

Current displayed in app and it's the same in KS and EUC world apps.  By checking how much time it takes to charge, I can attest that the apps are accurate 

Actually none of the apps are accurate or inaccurate. It's like with politician showing in TV and saying bullshit. It's politician saying a bullshit, not the TV  Same with apps - they only show you what the wheel sends. If there's a bug in firmware, mainboard will send invalid data. In fact, whether the wheel is on or off, it doesn't influence the charging current. It only depends on charger current limit and charging phase.

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I checked with my eWheels fast charger set to 3A, no difference in the current shown on the charger but EUCWorld doesn't show any current at all if I start the charging with the wheel powered off. I'm on 2.16. Now that my memory is jogged, I do recall EUCWorld not showing current but wasn't aware that it might have been because of the wheel's power state when the charger is turned on. I had some strange charging behavior late last year that prompted me to replace the S18's batteries—I'm hoping it wasn't a very, very, large unnecessary expense!!!

Unfortunately it's a firmware bug, as with wheel remaining on after disconnecting charger.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Seba

[ssup2406]

@Elliott Reitzamazing innovation with the sidestand! I too hope it becomes standard. Question unrelated to your post, I'll buy the S18 if I can get it to below 51 lbs to be compatible with VIA Rail's baggage policy, I spoke to eevee's and they confirmed the weight as being 53.25 lbs, do you think I could reduce the weight by roughly 2 pounds by removing the side covers like you did in your video? Cheers, thanks.

 

On 1/20/2023 at 3:30 PM, Elliott Reitz said:

 

[Donaldp751]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:27 AM, Ksmack said:

Here are some photos. I decided to make the shell out of a series of smaller prints so that everything fit on my print bed. It is printed out in ABS. There is a center panel held in by 6 screws. When performing a tire change or servicing the sliders this is the only panel that needs to come off. The rest of the shell stays intact. At the front and back on the faces are screw in attachment points. I used threaded heat inserts. I’ve got a custom front bumper that also acts as a very stable stand. At some point I might make a TPU front handle/bumper. I printed out so Grizzla pad clones as well. 
 

Everything fits together nicely. Also, there is much better protection for the sliders. It is harder for dirt to get in there, but it is still pretty easy to lubricate them. 

That is a seriously sick upgrade! Are you posting the design files online anywhere or what is the plan for them? I started drafting up a design last fall but ended up giving up after getting jump pads for the stock shell. This looks like a major improvement for the S18, and way easier to maintain like this. 

[Ksmack]

3 hours ago, Donaldp751 said:

That is a seriously sick upgrade! Are you posting the design files online anywhere or what is the plan for them? I started drafting up a design last fall but ended up giving up after getting jump pads for the stock shell. This looks like a major improvement for the S18, and way easier to maintain like this. 

I haven’t gotten around to posting the files yet as I still have some small tweaks to be made. I’ll probably put it up on Thingsverse or printables. There are a lot of parts to print!

[novazeus]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:35 AM, Seba said:

Actually none of the apps are accurate or inaccurate. It's like with politician showing in TV and saying bullshit. It's politician saying a bullshit, not the TV  Same with apps - they only show you what the wheel sends. If there's a bug in firmware, mainboard will send invalid data. In fact, whether the wheel is on or off, it doesn't influence the charging current. It only depends on charger current limit and charging phase.

Unfortunately it's a firmware bug, as with wheel remaining on after disconnecting charger.

after me leaving the s18 on for a couple of days, not balancing but the bluetooth and it's computer on, i discovered that by plugging in the wheel to the charger first, and then plugging in the charger to the wall, the bluetooth comes on. 

the wheel will continue to charge for about 3 hours after the light on the charger turns green. then to turn everything off, first unplug the charger from the wall, the wheel's headlight will flash letting u know it's now completely off. then unplug the charger from the wheel. 

i'm on bms firmware 2.17 btw and seems ok.

[Donaldp751]

8 hours ago, Ksmack said:

I haven’t gotten around to posting the files yet as I still have some small tweaks to be made. I’ll probably put it up on Thingsverse or printables. There are a lot of parts to print!

Well hey if you need help testing or tweaking shoot me a message. I'll be rebuilding my S18 next week as I'm getting error code 223, charging errors, and it won't ever shut off so I'm just waiting on new control boards to arrive at ewheels so I can order it and get them replaced. I repaired my battery pack last fall when I cracked a nickel strip in one so I'm pretty familar with rebuilding this thing😅