King Song S18 Discussion

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

so i just figured out after charging, the s18 isn't turned on, but somehow in standby mode draining the battery. 

if after charging, if i don't turn it on and turn it back off, it's still burning electricity.

weird. i noticed it because sitting there completely off, it will connect to the app.

and the battery drained down to 80% from 100%.

so when u charge a s18, and pull the charger off, the wheel is still "on" bluetooth wise at least.

"vampire drain". Was a thing on 16X for a while, but firmware fixed it. I haven't noticed that on my S18, what firmware are you running? But it's easy enough just to power cycle the wheel after charging if you're wary of firmware upbreaks. (yes, the control board stays fully powered up)

Edited January 26, 2023 by Tawpie

[Funky]

5 hours ago, novazeus said:

so i just figured out after charging, the s18 isn't turned on, but somehow in standby mode draining the battery. 

if after charging, if i don't turn it on and turn it back off, it's still burning electricity.

weird. i noticed it because sitting there completely off, it will connect to the app.

and the battery drained down to 80% from 100%.

so when u charge a s18, and pull the charger off, the wheel is still "on" bluetooth wise at least.

Same thing with my 18xl. I need to power cycle it everytime i stop charging. (While charging your motherboard turns on.. When you remove the charger it "kinda" turns off. But still is drawing electricity.) Power cycle fixes it..

 

Doh i overnight lose best 1-2% not 20%.  After power cycle i lose 0%. Not even 0.01V.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Funky

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

Same thing with my 18xl. I need to power cycle it everytime i stop charging. (While charging your motherboard turns on.. When you remove the charger it "kinda" turns off. But still is drawing electricity.) Power cycle fixes it..

 

Doh i overnight lose best 1-2% not 20%.  After power cycle i lose 0%. Not even 0.01V.

first wheel out of ten i have had that does that.

no mention of that in the owners manual that u must turn the wheel on then turn it off for it not to keep drawing current after disconnecting the charger.

the manual also says to plug in the wheel first and then plug the charger into the wall.

[The Brahan Seer]

10 minutes ago, novazeus said:

first wheel out of ten i have had that does that.

My wheel was manufactured 2 years ago and this doesn't happen to me.

I plug the charger into the wheel, then switch the charger on at the wall [ in the UK we have on/off switches on our sockets], leave it to charge till done and then switch off at the wall (in your case disconnect from the wall), this will cause the S18 front headlight to flicker once, everything is then off and I then unplug from the wheel. 

[Funky]

53 minutes ago, novazeus said:

first wheel out of ten i have had that does that.

no mention of that in the owners manual that u must turn the wheel on then turn it off for it not to keep drawing current after disconnecting the charger.

the manual also says to plug in the wheel first and then plug the charger into the wall.

What manual?  

Edited January 26, 2023 by Funky

[Funky]

39 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

My wheel was manufactured 2 years ago and this doesn't happen to me.

I plug the charger into the wheel, then switch the charger on at the wall [ in the UK we have on/off switches on our sockets], leave it to charge till done and then switch off at the wall (in your case disconnect from the wall), this will cause the S18 front headlight to flicker once, everything is then off and I then unplug from the wheel. 

Mine "sometimes" flicker..  But not always. The wheel turns "off", as you can't connect bluetooth anymore. (While charging you can..) But somehow it's still drawing electricity - very little. 

I normally unplug from the wheel first, then from the wall.. But plugging in always wall first.

[novazeus]

24 minutes ago, Funky said:

Mine "sometimes" flicker..  But not always. The wheel turns "off", as you can't connect bluetooth anymore. (While charging you can..) But somehow it's still drawing electricity - very little. 

I normally unplug from the wheel first, then from the wall.. But plugging in always wall first.

2. Charging

This device has a built-in lithium battery, and no extra battery installation is required. To charge a depleted battery, plug in the power cord to the wall socket after inserting the charger plug into the EUC as this can prevent the potential risk of damage to the charger. The light on the charger will be colored red while charging and green when the charge is complete and the battery is at 100% charge. If not in urgent need, please wait until charging is complete before unplugging to allow the battery management system to perform cell balancing. 

 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

2. Charging

This device has a built-in lithium battery, and no extra battery installation is required. To charge a depleted battery, plug in the power cord to the wall socket after inserting the charger plug into the EUC as this can prevent the potential risk of damage to the charger. The light on the charger will be colored red while charging and green when the charge is complete and the battery is at 100% charge. If not in urgent need, please wait until charging is complete before unplugging to allow the battery management system to perform cell balancing. 

 

But it says wall first then EUC doesn't it?? (After...) Plug in the power cord to the wall socket after inserting the charger plug into the EUC

If you plugged in EUC first, then wall.. The electricity would go "backwards" to the charger. I could imagine charger not liking that. Also EUC would "power" the charger..

Wall first, then wheel.

Unplugging after done charging. I always unplug wheel first, then from wall. (Because if i unplug from wall first.. EUC would "power" the charger again.) 

How damaging it can be doing other way around - i don't really know.. If any..

Edited January 26, 2023 by Funky

[Tawpie]

Just now, Funky said:

The electricity would go "backwards" to the charger.

Doesn't work that way, there are provisions in the circuit to prevent it.

KS's charge port on the wheel side is isolated from the batteries, unlike some other manufacturers. I tend to follow the destructions, then if something goes south at least it's (probably) not because I was being bull headed.

[Funky]

2 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

My wheel was manufactured 2 years ago and this doesn't happen to me.

I plug the charger into the wheel, then switch the charger on at the wall [ in the UK we have on/off switches on our sockets], leave it to charge till done and then switch off at the wall (in your case disconnect from the wall), this will cause the S18 front headlight to flicker once, everything is then off and I then unplug from the wheel. 

So you do it "backwards" ?  Wheel first then wall. EUC powers the charger..

I would turn "on" first. Then plug it in the wheel.

21 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Doesn't work that way, there are provisions in the circuit to prevent it.

KS's charge port on the wheel side is isolated from the batteries, unlike some other manufacturers. I tend to follow the destructions, then if something goes south at least it's (probably) not because I was being bull headed.

I meant it "loosely". I get it doesn't really do any damage, etc.. But it still "powers" the charger up..

I just follow how it's been done for years. Everyone have said wall first then euc.. Don't the charger caps get powered, when you plug in the wheel first?

Edited January 26, 2023 by Funky

[Paul A]

If the power point is not turned on......does it matter what the sequence of connecting is?

Connect charger to EUC, connect charger to power point......then turn on power point?

[Funky]

16 minutes ago, Paul A said:

If the power point is not turned on......does it matter what the sequence of connecting is?

Connect charger to EUC, connect charger to power point......then turn on power point?

Didn't some wheels turn the charger on? And made pretty big sparks, if they plugged the charger first into wheel.

In KS case it really doesn't matter as the charge plug isn't making sparks.. And by plugging charger first into wheel, it doesn't give power back to charger. 

But right that moment - when you flip power switch. It's pulling full load instantly. Charger going from "cold" to full load isn't bad?

I imagined that having charger warmed up, before plugging it in wheel is kinda better..

Edited January 26, 2023 by Funky

[Tawpie]

15 minutes ago, Funky said:

And by plugging charger first into wheel, it doesn't give power back to charger.

This is correct... and because there's a diode (1 way valve if you will) to ensure that electricity only comes into the wheel and doesn't go out. BG only recently added this to their wheels, KS and I believe IM have always had this protection. Without it, dropping your keys across the wheel's charge port can result in arc welding of your keys.

16 minutes ago, Funky said:

Charger going from "cold" to full load isn't bad?

Not an issue at all. Chargers typically have what's called a "soft start" feature, where they will operate kind of slowly until their output voltage is stable (it's like feeling your way in the dark, you go slowly). Without a soft start, the load on the charger will look like a short circuit when the charger is energized, and the charger will shut right back down because it shouldn't (and can't) drive a short circuit.

[Funky]

4 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

This is correct... and because there's a diode (1 way valve if you will) to ensure that electricity only comes into the wheel and doesn't go out. BG only recently added this to their wheels, KS and I believe IM have always had this protection. Without it, dropping your keys across the wheel's charge port can result in arc welding of your keys.

Not an issue at all. Chargers typically have what's called a "soft start" feature, where they will operate kind of slowly until their output voltage is stable (it's like feeling your way in the dark, you go slowly). Without a soft start, the load on the charger will look like a short circuit when the charger is energized, and the charger will shut right back down because it shouldn't (and can't) drive a short circuit.

As it doesn't really matter how you do it. I will continue to do the way i have been doing.  

Wall > Wheel > Wheel > Wall.

[The Brahan Seer]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Wheel first then wall. EUC powers the charger..

 

When i do connect the wheel is already turned off, although some power may be in the motherboard still.

As stated above although it used to be an issue in the past, tends to be mitigated by hardware design nowadays.

I have heard in the past of other S18's having phantom drain though so its not an isolated problem. Shame if it still exists.

[novazeus]

hey, i’m just quoting the user manual, u can google it!

but if u disconnect everything once charged,

the wheel is still “on” a considerable battery drain from 100% to 80% in 2 days.

the wheel doesn’t appear to be on, but u can still connect to it with the app.

after powering it on(balancing) and turning it off, it’s completely off.

kinda dangerous situation i would think if u don’t know the weirdness of this wheel. had i not checked on it, i’m sure the batteries would drain to zero.

[novazeus]

https://support.mykingsong.com/article/179-king-song-s18-user-manual

[Funky]

13 minutes ago, novazeus said:

the wheel doesn’t appear to be on, but u can still connect to it with the app.

I can't do that - when i unplug the charger from wall. Mine completely turns "off". As i can't connect to it anymore. But still i lose about ~1% if i don't power cycle it.

Maybe motherboard turns off after ~10min of not use.. (That's how i lose that ~1% maybe.) My wheel has that automatically turns off after 10 mins enabled... If i don't play with app, or don't do anything with the wheel.

If you have disabled it - it never turns off.  After charging?

Edited January 26, 2023 by Funky

[novazeus]

Just now, Funky said:

I can't do that - when i unplug the charger from wall. Mine completely turns "off". As i can't connect to it anymore. But still i lose about ~1% if i don't power cycle it.

Maybe motherboard turns off after ~10min of not use.. (That's how i lose that ~1% maybe.) My wheel has that automatically turns off after 10 mins enabled... If i don't play with app, or don't do anything with the wheel.

for instance,

i’m charging it now while it lays on it’s side,

never turned it on.

i’m sure i could connect to it now because the charger is on green but still using watts from the wall.

when i disconnect the charger from the wall, and then the wheel, the wheel will appear completely off!

however, if i turn on the app, it will conmect to the wheel, still completely off, or appears that way.

[novazeus]

it will slowly go down to around 3 watts eventually.

about 3 hours, and that’s about it.

[Funky]

9 minutes ago, novazeus said:

for instance,

i’m charging it now while it lays on it’s side,

never turned it on.

i’m sure i could connect to it now because the charger is on green but still using watts from the wall.

when i disconnect the charger from the wall, and then the wheel, the wheel will appear completely off!

however, if i turn on the app, it will conmect to the wheel, still completely off, or appears that way.

Yeah i know what you mean.

While i have charger connected to wall/wheel i also can connect to app.

When i disconnect mine, it disappears completely. And reopening app doesn't show it anymore. Your's does.  

It's like your motherboard stays on - till next power cycle..

 

 Mine did the same - i think.. (For the first month it did that.. I swear it did it.. Only thing i updated was phone app.) Sometimes i could still connect after removing the charger. Now i can't anyone. Dark-Magic!!!!

Edited January 26, 2023 by Funky

[novazeus]

ok,

here’s how the king song s18 charges.

reverse from my bluettii powerstation that wants the charger plugged into the wall first, then the batteries.

this time i unplugged the charger from the wall first and then the wheel, the headlight flashed once, and the wheel turned off everything including the bluetooth.

so obviously king song wants wheel plugged in first then wall, and unplug wall first then wheel.

[Uras]

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

ok,

here’s how the king song s18 charges.

reverse from my bluettii powerstation that wants the charger plugged into the wall first, then the batteries.

this time i unplugged the charger from the wall first and then the wheel, the headlight flashed once, and the wheel turned off everything including the bluetooth.

so obviously king song wants wheel plugged in first then wall, and unplug wall first then wheel.

I have a 16x. I have found that on a 100% charge that it sometimes does not turn off - it isn't fully on either eg the gyro isn't running. I have it on 10min power off but that doesn't come into play. This doesn't seem to happen on an 80% charge. After reading about this I just cycle on then off as soon as the charger is disconnected.

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, Uras said:

I have a 16x. I have found that on a 100% charge that it sometimes does not turn off - it isn't fully on either eg the gyro isn't running. I have it on 10min power off but that doesn't come into play. This doesn't seem to happen on an 80% charge. After reading about this I just cycle on then off as soon as the charger is disconnected.

try unplugging the wheel from the wall first. if it's like mine, that shuts it completely down. but if i unplugged the charger from the wheel first, the bluetooth stays on and it drains the battery. pretty quickly.

pita because, i'd have to lift it out of it's stand, turn it on, then turn it off, to shut it down. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by novazeus
typo

[Funky]

3 hours ago, novazeus said:

this time i unplugged the charger from the wall first and then the wheel, the headlight flashed once, and the wheel turned off everything including the bluetooth.

so obviously king song wants wheel plugged in first then wall, and unplug wall first then wheel.

 

36 minutes ago, novazeus said:

try unplugging the wheel from the charger first. if it's like mine, that shuts it completely down. but if i unplugged the charger from the wall first, the bluetooth stays on and it drains the battery. pretty quickly.

Which is it then? Your comments say different things.  

You unplug the charger from wall first? Or you unplug the charger from wheel first?  Which did the trick for you? You can't have it both ways.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Funky