King Song S18 Discussion

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

 

Which is it then? Your comments say different things.  

You unplug the charger from wall first? Or you unplug the charger from wheel first?  Which did the trick for you? You can't have it both ways.

oops, yeah sorry!

when finished charging, reverse the order.

unplug from the wall first, the light will flash, which i guess means it’s completely off, then unplug the charger from the wheel.

idk why king song had to make this so complicated.

if when u finished charging, and u pull the charge cord off the wheel, the wheel will appear off, but it’s still on, not balancing, but using lots of watts.

never had a wheel so finicky about charging!

so, when finished charging, unplug from the wall first.

when ur charging, plug into the wheel first then plug into the wall, according to king song.

[Funky]

16 minutes ago, novazeus said:

oops, yeah sorry!

when finished charging, reverse the order.

unplug from the wall first, the light will flash, which i guess means it’s completely off, then unplug the charger from the wheel.

idk why king song had to make this so complicated.

if when u finished charging, and u pull the charge cord off the wheel, the wheel will appear off, but it’s still on, not balancing, but using lots of watts.

never had a wheel so finicky about charging!

so, when finished charging, unplug from the wall first.

when ur charging, plug into the wheel first then plug into the wall, according to king song.

The light flash may be "quick" power on.  And then it turns itself off. Maybe? 

Because light do come on. Maybe motor also comes on for that split second.. (As the power from motherburn/caps get burned off - in that split second.)

Edited January 26, 2023 by Funky

[Uras]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

oops, yeah sorry!

when finished charging, reverse the order.

unplug from the wall first, the light will flash, which i guess means it’s completely off, then unplug the charger from the wheel.

idk why king song had to make this so complicated.

if when u finished charging, and u pull the charge cord off the wheel, the wheel will appear off, but it’s still on, not balancing, but using lots of watts.

never had a wheel so finicky about charging!

so, when finished charging, unplug from the wall first.

when ur charging, plug into the wheel first then plug into the wall, according to king song.

from what I understand that process is for the charger, not the wheel. I also believe it is best practice for all chargers.

[novazeus]

25 minutes ago, Uras said:

from what I understand that process is for the charger, not the wheel. I also believe it is best practice for all chargers.

if u pull the plug out of the wheel first, the bluetooth on the wheel stays on and will drain ur battery. no outward sign that it is on, but open the app and it will connect. 

i just doublechecked with my phone to make sure it was off. it sat here two days "on" and went from 100% to 80%. if i hadn't caught it, the batteries might have gone flat. never seen a wheel behave this way. 

if u do pull the charge cord out of the wheel first, then u have to turn the wheel on, then turn it off, to be completely off.

just saying, check ur s18 in storage, it might be on.

[Uras]

3 hours ago, novazeus said:

if u pull the plug out of the wheel first, the bluetooth on the wheel stays on and will drain ur battery. no outward sign that it is on, but open the app and it will connect. 

i just doublechecked with my phone to make sure it was off. it sat here two days "on" and went from 100% to 80%. if i hadn't caught it, the batteries might have gone flat. never seen a wheel behave this way. 

if u do pull the charge cord out of the wheel first, then u have to turn the wheel on, then turn it off, to be completely off.

just saying, check ur s18 in storage, it might be on.

OK; my 16x does have that issue, and I've been cycling on then off. I've only found that when I've charged to 100% charge - not 80%, if that means anything to anybody. I've always unplugged from the wall first though, out of existing habit, (emtb user), so that isn't the issue with my 16x. Also, I don't think that bluetooth staying on has been a consistent issue for me regardless of charge - perhaps it isn't for you either? What alerted me was the wheel beeping some time long after charging had finished and everything was disconnected. An intermittent fault is hard to diagnose and can lead to mis diagnosis - using the app to check is a great idea though. I just continue cycling on and off rather than try to diagnose it, unless I have some time to leave it for 10mins before checking with the app.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Uras

[Uras]

On 1/27/2023 at 11:57 AM, novazeus said:

if u pull the plug out of the wheel first, the bluetooth on the wheel stays on and will drain ur battery. no outward sign that it is on, but open the app and it will connect. 

i just doublechecked with my phone to make sure it was off. it sat here two days "on" and went from 100% to 80%. if i hadn't caught it, the batteries might have gone flat. never seen a wheel behave this way. 

if u do pull the charge cord out of the wheel first, then u have to turn the wheel on, then turn it off, to be completely off.

just saying, check ur s18 in storage, it might be on.

Hello novazeus. I have been testing your theory and I'm pretty sure that the same thing is happening with my 16x. I think the two times it continued to drain was when my partner disconnected it (I wasn't home both times). I'm not 100% and will continue to watch, but it hasn't happened since with me disconnecting power first which is my usual routine. I have the app running while disconnecting and get the message of lost communication. 

So, thankyou for your insight.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Uras

[novazeus]

2 minutes ago, Uras said:

Hello novazeus. I have been testing your theory and I'm pretty sure that the same thing is happening with my 16x. I think the two times it continued to drain was when my partner disconnected it (I wasn't home both times). I'm not 100% and will continue to watch, but it hasn't happened since with me disconnecting power first which is my usual routine. I have the app running while disconnecting and get the message of lost communication. 

So, thankyou for your insight.

i'm not the brightest bulb in the box, but i try to help because the wheel manufacturers won't. 

so thankful for this forum where all us beta testers can keep others safe. 

thanks.

[novazeus]

i did not know the s18 had a king song kickstand available. 

anybody get one of these?

 

[Grandpa_Jay]

On 12/29/2022 at 5:17 PM, novazeus said:

u have to do lots of compensating for that stupid center rib. 

Would you explain, please. I just got my S18 about a month ago - my first EUC. TIA

[OldFartRides]

Jay - N. Z. Doesn’t like the stock tire’s straight rib in the center of the tread. I never really had a problem with it. I run with less psi than most, though ( ~27 ). I weigh around 190.

Best,

[Grandpa_Jay]

14 minutes ago, OldFartRides said:

Jay - N. Z. Doesn’t like the stock tire’s straight rib in the center of the tread. I never really had a problem with it. I run with less psi than most, though ( ~27 ). I weigh around 190.

Best,

Thanks.  I think I will be digging in to my S18 soon  I laid it on its side as suggested in my other thread and I do NOT think it is spinning true. I am not able to ride well enough to worry about it much yet - but I am very close.  I bought a work bench that should hold the wheel for me while I figure out how to take it apart and put it back together again.  I bought myself a nice cover and pads for the S18, but I will NOT allow myself to install them until I can go an entire 7 riding days in a row without dropping the wheel! My wife bought me some beautiful CNC pedals for it also, but same requirement. The stock pedals have really taken a beating! I think my solar pool cover and gorilla tape has done a good job protecting the S18 so far...but,  I can hear the tire rubbing on something when I ride - especially over 10mph and the wobbles begin.   I really don't even know where to begin with it - I suppose I should contact my vendor as it is under warranty. BUT, I don't want to do all that only to learn that it is all me and nothing wrong with Willie!

[Paul A]

3 hours ago, Grandpa_Jay said:

how to take it apart

 

King Song S18 Disassembly Video

 

 

[NewB]

Okay everyone. My S18 saga continues (recent Molicel Edition). Pretty much since I started riding it, I have a "knock" with each revolution. Here is the sound, but on an S22 - 

Ewheels recommended I lossen the motor bolts and whack it with a hammer. This is the method I used - 

I ended up doing it twice. The first time, everything was fine for about 30 seconds, and then the noise returned. The second time, my ride was gloriously quiet for about a minute - until I hit a smallish bump, and the "knock" came back (albeit a bit fainter).

Upon close inspection of the wheel, I noticed there was a of silicone sealant overapplication in one spot. Could this be preventing my whacking from being as effective as it should be? I attached a picture of the spot on the wheel I am referencing.

I am wondering if I should (1) try and whack it again or (2) disassemble the whole mess, replace the bearings with some Timkin 6203 2RS bearings (since I have it apart, I may as well put some better baring in there), reseal the motor, and put it back together.

Any ideas?

P.S. Ignore the numbered tape. I used that to mark the bolts so I could tighten them in a star pattern (and, no, I did not tighten them in the order shown by the numbers).

Edited February 1, 2023 by NewB

[dycus]

I had a similar sound on my S18, it ended up being the valve stem sticking slightly too far out and tapping the shell when the wheel turned. I used a velcro strap to tie it to the nearest rim spoke.

[OldFartRides]

Wow, I’m surprised smacking that cover that hard with a plastic hammer didn’t leave marks or dents or worse.

[Paul A]

From the video, the sound is speed dependent, and certainly sounds like it is the valve stem protruding out and hitting the case.

 

Had the same sound on the KS16s.

 

And member Dycus had the same with S18.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Paul A

[chanman]

I also had the valve stem knocking at one point on the S18, my solution was a low profile cap ala https://www.amazon.com/SAMIKIVA-Premium-Universal-Bicycle-Motorcycles/dp/B07RQ8QGFN/

My understanding is that the motor knocks are not consistently once per revolution and are more sporadic, so should be easy to rule out.

[NewB]

7 hours ago, dycus said:

I had a similar sound on my S18, it ended up being the valve stem sticking slightly too far out and tapping the shell when the wheel turned. I used a velcro strap to tie it to the nearest rim spoke.

That's not it on mine.

[NewB]

7 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Wow, I’m surprised smacking that cover that hard with a plastic hammer didn’t leave marks or dents or worse.

So was I. It didn't even leave a smudge. It scared the heck out of me when I saw the video, but the wheel took it like a champ.

[NewB]

6 hours ago, chanman said:

I also had the valve stem knocking at one point on the S18, my solution was a low profile cap ala https://www.amazon.com/SAMIKIVA-Premium-Universal-Bicycle-Motorcycles/dp/B07RQ8QGFN/

My understanding is that the motor knocks are not consistently once per revolution and are more sporadic, so should be easy to rule out.

That was where I started. I scrutinized the stem, tried no cap, a different cap, no load, load, angle, no angle, upside down, more air in the shock, less air, no air... It it pretty consistent as in it happens in the same place (I think) every time, but sometimes it's a bit louder, sometimes it stops (for a rev or two) with a weight shift, but it keeps coming back. The ONLY thing that has reliably changed it was the hammer whack.

[NewB]

7 hours ago, Paul A said:

From the video, the sound is speed dependent, and certainly sounds like it is the valve stem protruding out and hitting the case.

 

Had the same sound on the KS16s.

 

And member Dycus had the same with S18.

 

 

That's not my wheel, but it's pretty much what it sounds like. I haven't logged enough time to feel comfortable holding my phone while riding yet. Mine is not speed dependent.

[mrelwood]

 

On 2/1/2023 at 10:57 PM, NewB said:

Upon close inspection of the wheel, I noticed there was a of silicone sealant overapplication in one spot. Could this be preventing my whacking from being as effective as it should be?

I don’t think it was. The way I see it, what the banging is for mainly is the bearings. Looks like their estimation is that the bearings are simply not seated well. Banging probably aims to loosen any binding in the bearing install to make it sit flush and straight.

 Loosening the bolts allows the motor covers to move and to allow the bearings to realign. Silicone is quite flexible when there are strong forces pushing against.

 Why this didn’t help much in your case is anyone’s guess. Replacing the bearings will definitely solve the issue, but so might reinstalling the current bearings. But since it’s a good amount of work to remove and reinstall the bearings, best to replace them all the same.

 Some people have simply filled a knocking bearing with Marine grease without removing the bearing, which has muted it. But since the process is a bit uncontrolled, there is a danger of some of the grease reaching the motor coils. And since there will be unknown original grease getting mixed with the new one, some people worry that they might mix in a bad way.

Edited February 2, 2023 by mrelwood

[NewB]

17 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

I don’t think it was. The way I see it, what the banging is for mainly is the bearings. Looks like their estimation is that the bearings are simply not seated well. Banging probably aims to loosen any binding in the bearing install to make it sit flush and straight.

 Loosening the bolts allows the motor covers to move and to allow the bearings to realign. Silicone is quite flexible when there are strong forces pushing against.

 Why this didn’t help much in your case is anyone’s guess. Replacing the bearings will definitely solve the issue, but so might reinstalling the current bearings. But since it’s a good amount of work to remove and reinstall the bearings, best to replace them all the same.

 Some people have simply filled a knocking bearing with Marine grease without removing the bearing, which has muted it. But since the process is a bit uncontrolled, there is a danger of some of the grease reaching the motor coils. And since there will be unknown original grease getting mixed with the new one, some people worry that they might mix in a bad way.

Thank you! It doesn't look like rocket science to take the wheel out. Heck, I've already replaced the control board and put Loctite on everything when I put it back together. It doesn't look like pulling the wheel is much more difficult than that. From what I've seen about the quality of the stock bearings, new bearings couldn't hurt either. In the meantime, I guess I may as well just ride it like I broke it! Thought about sending it in for warranty service, but I can't resist the urge to make everything that much better.

 

[mrelwood]

Don’t forget that if you have both motor covers off simultaneously, you need to center the stator while tightening the first side of the motor cover! Inch wide strips cut from printer paper will do the job when layered on top of itself a few times.

 Also don’t forget to carefully silicone the motor covers shut.

[NewB]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Don’t forget that if you have both motor covers off simultaneously, you need to center the stator while tightening the first side of the motor cover! Inch wide strips cut from printer paper will do the job when layered on top of itself a few times.

 Also don’t forget to carefully silicone the motor covers shut.

Then wouldn't it be better to do one side at a time?