Wuhan Coronavirus - are you prepared?

[.....]

Side effect of panic around here.... Nobody is at work so my quiet rural road is seeing more traffic.

Edited March 20, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Toshio Uemura]

35 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I personally feel now is a time for togetherness, not for friction and division

I agree 100%. But togetherness for me means putting all weapons away and out of the equation. In Japan no private citizen has and never needed any guns. Our windows are made of thin glas and doors (in the countryside where I live) most of the time unlocked. We have the lowest crime rate, because we have and need no weapons. So the first step to togetherness is to lay down your weapons, I believe!

... and that is not politics it’s ethics and basic social maturity!
 

36 minutes ago, travsformation said:

1 hour ago, Toshio Uemura said:

 

Yikes...those agglomerations of people...

Yeah, it's eerie to see the streets so empty, but comforting to see people and authorities alike taking the issue seriously (not to mention people's willingness to make the best out of a good situation). Of course, feel free to share! It would be great if the initiative were to spread!

To be honest, I have no clue, why Japan is still doing so well in this. We kept our borders open until very late. Nobody was really checked when reentering from Italy or other European countries The numbers and curves should look different. Apart from the TP frenzy, life here is still almost as normal as in 2019. People are aware, careful, wearing their normal PM2,5 masks 😷 as we usually do. But that’s it.

These curves from the New York Times might be interesting for some.

[.....]

Be leery of stats at this time. Lack of testing and the amount of people sick and getting over it without being tested, skews all the data. We can over analyze this to death, only to find our ignorance and lack of REAL numbers, makes it moot.  Togetherness is knowing that EVERYONE can  AND WILL defend themselves .    Saying something isnt political and then declaring things as 'social maturity' is opinion based, not factual.  I am just going to assume in the end, we will ALL be exposed and the best course of action is to prepare your body for the inevitable and hope or pray or whatever makes you happy. Slowing the timeline will help, but i dont think we can escape the inevitable. It HAS crossed our minds to go out and get sick NOW, before it gets worse.

Edited March 20, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Toshio Uemura]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

Maybe....but profit don't help those that die.

Those who live can rebuild. Yes I know these are grim words. 

But the capital of China do not look like this for fun.

Yet in one of most modern hospitals in the world in Italy many people die but a city in Italy surrounded but hard infected communities have managr to stay clear of infection for 3 weeks by doi g the right measures. 

No being in a high risk group do not mean you win the lottery against the virus. And even if you do beat it some people have lost as much as 30% lung capacity. 

The economic impact of that can be devastating. This is not just the other side of the world problem. It is more or less in every once backyard now. 

Our world has changed. It will never be the same again. As there was a pre 9/11 and a post 9/11 there is now a pre 2020 and a post 2020!

We need to adapt quickESTly, overreact proactively and without a millisecond of hesitation, then we can look forward to 2021. But first we have to get through 2020 a step at a time. 日々是好日 (nichi nichi kore koujitsu) Every Day Counts! (This is my personal interpretation and translation of this Zen word from the Hegikan roku. The popular translation is: Everyday is a good day!) which I consider now more important then ever.

[Toshio Uemura]

30 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

the best course of action is to prepare your body for the inevitable

... by buying guns and shopping carts full of toilet paper 🧻. Let’s together!

[Toshio Uemura]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

It HAS crossed our minds to go out and get sick NOW, before it gets worse.

That’s what I mean by reactive instead of proactive. Let’s just run around hoard toilet paper and guns, then party a while in the parks to be the first to get the last hospital bed and respirator still available. 
I bet it crossed peoples minds! ! 🤮 

Please watch the video that @Unventor posted earlier. It gives a lot of hope! There is a time after CoViD-19. We just have to fight for it. Defeatism is surely not the way!

Edited March 20, 2020 by Toshio Uemura

[travsformation]

1 hour ago, Toshio Uemura said:

But togetherness for me means putting all weapons away and out of the equation. In Japan no private citizen has and never needed any guns. Our windows are made of thin glas and doors (in the countryside where I live) most of the time unlocked. We have the lowest crime rate, because we have and need no weapons. So the first step to togetherness is to lay down your weapons, I believe!

... and that is not politics it’s ethics and basic social maturity!

I feel the same way about guns, but this forum is made up of people from all over the planet (Americans surely make up more than half), and what makes sense to me might seem ludicrous to others. Your statements are far from neutral, and can lead to polarization and division in a thread about a planet-wide threat. We're all in this together...
Why not leave such discussions for another thread/another time? (Just a suggestion as a user, not as a mod)
 

1 hour ago, Toshio Uemura said:

To be honest, I have no clue, why Japan is still doing so well in this.

Who knows. People still incubating, not showing any symptoms yet? I'm also wary of the data at this stage

[.....]

42 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

That’s what I mean by reactive instead of proactive. Let’s just run around hoard toilet paper and guns, then party a while in the parks to be the first to get the last hospital bed and respirator still available. 
I bet it crossed peoples minds! 🤮

Going out and getting sick IS proactive, waiting to get sick is reactive( i AM NOT advocating either). You are watching too much media. Most of us already had guns and ammo. My house ALWAYS has 24 rolls of paper anyhow. The real worry is food supply and water.  Dont let the media's portrayal of the few, confuse you into thinking it is the norm for the masses.  People are behaving as usual in the rural parts(aside from the influx of kids not in school, mostly). We are being cautious, but we also still have to live our lives. If EVERYONE goes home, there will be many deaths from lack of services. Going home and hiding in fear of getting sick, is NOT coming together, it is 'every man for himself'. Its a balance we must walk... put ourselves in danger (and others), so society doesnt fail completely, or hide from it all and hope someone else takes the risks to keep the power on, the food stocked, the hospitals working...  It is fun to use this disaster as a way to impose your opinions of other people, onto the masses tho.I don't assume to think that I know so much that i can make a fair judgement of what other countries should do.  My biggest concern is that once i do get sick, my wife will get sick. As the only two in our home, we will self quarantine (once ill), so we will HAVE to have stock of 2-3 weeks of EVERYTHING, as its a violation of quarantine to go shopping(per my OWN rules, USA hasnt the ability to impose much on us rural folks). Noone will come to call on us.  I cant assume that my govt will take care of me, should it get so bad that desperate roamers start to loot. Locked doors and personal protection always seem excessive.... until its too late. Unfortunately, I find your opinions somewhat abrasive. I KNOW my opinions can be and I'll be damned if you dont manage to keep me joining the fray.  I think this 'debate' isnt really helping anyone, and I KNOW i probably aint either. Apologies to anyone I offend, just remember that its perfectly acceptable to think Im ludicrous.

Edited March 20, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Slashebeest said:

until you see what's happening in italy, last 24hours: +600 dead.

In italy, they no longer resuscitate infected people older than 65.

Doctors have to choose who dies and who lives.

You can't use Italy as an example of what'll happen everywhere. I'll leave it at that.

[mrelwood]

 

9 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I'm just saying either you have systematic measures or you might as well skip it altogether. The virus doesn't care if something is deemed "but but but we don't want to close that!".

There were nice graphs linked to a few pages ago showing how well social isolation works even when a large part of the population doesn’t play along. The infections spread at a much slower rate, meaning the health care and hospital bed capacities are not overwhelmed with everyone coming in at once.

The possibility of actual containment is long gone, and the steps we now take are to slow down the spreading, making it possible for the severe cases to be treated. Having a small number of services and shops open is perfectly in line with the initiative.

[Toshio Uemura]

29 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I feel the same way about guns, but this forum is made up of people from all over the planet (Americans surely make up more than half), and what makes sense to me might seem ludicrous to others. Your statements are far from neutral, and can lead to polarization and division in a thread about a planet-wide threat. We're all in this together...
Why not leave such discussions for another thread/another time? (Just a suggestion as a user, not as a mod)
 

Who knows. People still incubating, not showing any symptoms yet? I'm also wary of the data at this stage

You are right. Thank you for helping me understand that my position was biased not neutral. This is not the place to discuss gun issues. I apologize to whoever feels offended. 
 

As to the data. Yes, there are many uncertainties. But it is the only basis for predictions and predictions are needed more then ever to save lives. Some people here in Japan think, Japan might have already reached herd immunity in some parts of the population as early as January, since we  have many Chinese people traveling frequently in Japan. It would explain some data, but I guess it is just wishful thinking.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Toshio Uemura

[Toshio Uemura]

16 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

just remember that its perfectly acceptable to think Im ludicrous.

I am sure you are not. And I apologize for reacting harsh and rude. These are emotional and confusing times for all of us. What you wrote above makes perfect sense to me. 🤗 

[Toshio Uemura]

25 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

You can't use Italy as an example of what'll happen everywhere. I'll leave it at that.

I think so too. And I pray that we are right on this.

[travsformation]

2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

just remember that its perfectly acceptable to think Im ludicrous.

Aren't we all?

[tenofnine]

Vox has 3 videos about the COVID-19 that are factually sound and I've always followed the Kinda Funny guys who operate out of San Francisco (ex-IGN editors/writers) they had a really good (from-home discord) podcast about how it's effecting SF, LA and California in general.

The true numbers are starting to come out of China and it's been reported that the original estimates were 2-3x overestimated and that a large majority 50 and under only suffered casualties if they had an immune deficiency or some pre-existing condition that COVID-19 complicated to a fatal degree. This of course isn't a black and white stat, starting at late 30s and slowly ramping up in the 40s you have increased risk.

Soap and hot water will definitely kill the virus (destroy it in fact if you wash 20-30 seconds), most hand sanitizers won't really do much in normal quantities - the most effective thing you can do is just stay away from other people. You will contract COVID-19, you may not even show any symtptoms but you are contagious. Don't pass it along to someone that will have a serious problem dealing with it. This will run through almost everyone, we just need to give the healthcare system time to keep up with serious cases and help spread the timeline out.

Edited March 21, 2020 by tenofnine

[travsformation]

2 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

You are right. Thank you for helping me understand that my position was biased not neutral. This is not the place to discuss gun issues. I apologize to whoever feels offended. 

I've always been impressed by how respectful and amicable the overall vibe on this forum is, considering how varied its user base is---geographically, culturally, socially, etc. The general intellectual and maturity level is also a treat (makes life so much easier for mods too!), and since the subject of coronavirus seems to permeate almost every aspect of our lives at the moment, I'm keen on staying on topic, avoiding political bickering and exploring the subject in such a positive environment. It's not like I think we're going to solve the crisis in this thread (take me to the pub and get a few beers in me and I'll think I can fix the world in 10 min. though!), but I'm a bit fed up with the repetitive, borderline-hysterical discussions I keep hearing around me, and eager to hear read what the EUCers of the world have to say (different perspectives from different corners of the globe), as it's a million-fold more intelligent and interesting than my neighbors' incessant doomsday diatribes...

Or in other words, I'm not trying to police anyone. I guess I have my own subconscious agenda for directing the flow of conversation away from culture clashes and towards what I feel is more constructive (aka what my mind is begging me for, for my own sanity's sake). So in short, I'm hardly neutral either, no need to apologize

We're all ludicrous, as is this whole situation (if one is inclined to resort to laughter in the face of adversity)

2 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

As to the data. Yes, there are many uncertainties. But it is the only basis for predictions and predictions are needed more then ever to save lives. Some people here in Japan think, Japan might have already reached herd immunity in some parts of the population as early as January, since we  have many Chinese people traveling frequently in Japan. It would explain some data, but I guess it is just wishful thinking.

It's funny that you mention that you think the measures implemented in Japan are insufficient, as the Spanish press is using Japan, South Korea & Singapore as examples of places where the contagion curve has been smoothed thanks to swift preventive actions. Herd immunity doesn't sound plausible to me based on the figures on the charts above (if they're accurate to begin with). Either the decline being observed is the waiting period between the first small wave and the moment things blow up, or there's another explanation. Perhaps cultural differences like wearing masks to prevent infecting others (always, not just now), a greater sense of social responsibility (which is very apparent in the underlying attitude of your posts---which is a good thing!), or better hygienic habits...?

[RockyTop]

53 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I've always been impressed by how respectful and amicable the overall vibe on this forum is, considering how varied its user base is---geographically, culturally, socially, etc.

Me too, So many factors are involved. So many misconceptions presented in so many ways. While many stereotypes types do exist, you find that the people behind them are more like yourself than you thought. We just want what is good for our friends families.  Respect

[Toshio Uemura]

3 hours ago, travsformation said:

I've always been impressed by how respectful and amicable the overall vibe on this forum is, considering how varied its user base is---geographically, culturally, socially, etc. The general intellectual and maturity level is also a treat

Yes, it is a treat. We have people all over America, Europe, Asia and other parts of the world talking and sharing thanks to our great common interest: the EUC. I just wish we could read more from people in Arabian and Persian countries. 

[Slashebeest]

10 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

You can't use Italy as an example of what'll happen everywhere. I'll leave it at that.

Let's hope you are right 

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Yes, it is a treat. We have people all over America, Europe, Asia and other parts of the world talking and sharing thanks to our great common interest: the EUC. I just wish we could read more from people in Arabian and Persian countries. 

I think this has to do with how the culture, the infrastructure, the government type and how wealthy the ordinary person is in a country/region.

The more "modern" and freedom people have the more you can get insights from that area.

Now I work for a Japanese company. The company culture is very very different. I dislike to travel long distances and to areas that I don't understand the language to some degree. But Japan would be an exception. Here is a culture and country so very different from how Denmark came to the state we have today. We are so different countries is almost any aspect. Just the level of specialisation of people in Japan is mind blowing to me. In Denmark compared to Japan we are more like Jack of all trades. People makes their own decisions and are not very keen on doing what they are told just because an authority says so. 

Now this weekend the police have hold press conference stating do not go outside just because of the sun shining and the spring weather. If you do they will fine you. I doubt that the majority would listen.

Some would even say the 1500dkr (200€) would be okey to pay that to feel the first real spring day....

In Japan I wouldn't expect this to be needed to fine people. 

These culture differences is why I think the kujirolls video I posted is so very interesting.

[Unventor]

13 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

I agree 100%. But togetherness for me means putting all weapons away and out of the equation. In Japan no private citizen has and never needed any guns. Our windows are made of thin glas and doors (in the countryside where I live) most of the time unlocked. We have the lowest crime rate, because we have and need no weapons. So the first step to togetherness is to lay down your weapons, I believe!

... and that is not politics it’s ethics and basic social maturity!
 

To be honest, I have no clue, why Japan is still doing so well in this. We kept our borders open until very late. Nobody was really checked when reentering from Italy or other European countries The numbers and curves should look different. Apart from the TP frenzy, life here is still almost as normal as in 2019. People are aware, careful, wearing their normal PM2,5 masks 😷 as we usually do. But that’s it.

These curves from the New York Times might be interesting for some.

At first I thought these were good info, until I look more at the data. If you just look at the curves they are very missleading and reason to why people get scared at first glance. This is what I both dislike and like. But on on that.

There are a few thongs that makes these very very misguiding:

• Numbers are not listed compared to habitants, so you can have a big numver of cases but if you are 5x as many people it doesn't give a full picture imho.
• Different cuntreis only test certian groups. So you can have a very high number of unknow infected. In Sweden I don't view the numbers give are a full true number, and now they only test hospital staff regulary and people showing clear sumptoms and that are high risk groups.
• The level of global spread is different in each country too. And when it got on the radar too. 

So first impression is the curves spiking very fast....but is that a true picture. I doubt that seriously. This is why I dislike this the more I looked at it. Misleading is not a good thing at all.

But on the other hand I think we need to take this much more seriuosly, in that regard putting a scare into to people could be what is needed to get the message across. The biggest problem is while some fall sick feel poorly then get fine again....But the other that don't  get so luncy and that are having other deceases (maybe they don't know these yet) could be having big issues after the infection or might not even survive it.

I don't think @Toshio Uemura wanted to mislead at all, but it shws sharing info can have different effects. especially since so will twist info into their favour. This is also why I think it is going to be interesting how Mr. Trump will deal with this. Even the great wall of China did hold this back. I doubt Trumps wallk project would be able to do this either. And the end result of how many that didn't make it is a hard number to blame fake news as it is action that keep incection in low numbers.

Also those that get hit hardes is the guy on the streets that don't have a home of health insurance. Even in cruntries where I live with free health care, homeless people have a problem here with a pandemic like this. This is a global scale problem.

Now we are not on total lockdown at my place. So -i will take my wheel out and shop a few things. Mainly because of the weather. secondly that we could face a much hard lockdown in the next few days. When this happens (note I didn't write if) I will be in same situation like in France, Spain, Italy, Denmark...dohh...I need to ride now, see you guys in a bit. Sorry @travsformation 

 

 

[Rehab1]

Yesterday my wife was posted at the entrance of a Toledo Hospital clinic along with 5 other employees to question arriving patients about fevers, coughs, where they’ve traveled and orally taking their temperatures. Her clinic is currently using, in my view,  outdated oral digital thermometers with disposable protective probe covers.

The process involves inserting the thermometer’s probe into the patient’s mouth and waiting anywhere between 30-60 seconds for the thermometer to complete the process. The patient then receives a badge indicating they‘ve passed the screening process.

The next safety contamination protocol is to eject the thermometer’s plastic probe cover into the trash and then de-glove. This involves carefully pinching each contaminated glove near the wrist while slowing and carefully pulling the gloves inside out towards the fingertips until they drop into the trash.

Next my wife disinfects her hands and wrists with Purell, donns another set of sterile gloves and moves onto the next arriving patient only to repeat the entire process again and again throughout the day. 

Compare this to my facility’s employee/ patient temperature screening process which involves me simply placing the digital non-contact thermometer 2” from the forehead and quickly pressing the device’s trigger. The employee/ patient’s temperature is obtained in a meager 1- 2 seconds. 

My wife’s supervisor approached her asking where I had obtained my digital non-contact thermometer because they are in short supply. Luckily I already had one at the office before the virus reared it’s ugly head. I’m sure her supervisor is currently combing internet sites for a reputable supplier of these devices without having to pay triple price.

My wife ordered one from Amazon a few weeks back but unfortunately it’s coming from China. Go figure. Upon last check the digital thermometer is stuck in Chinese customs. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Rehab1

[Rehab1]

I just pulled up an old photo of the iron lung machine that was used back in 1940 /50s for polio patients. Thank God for advancements in medical science.

Interestingly today is a reverse of that era where back then parents were worried about their children contracting the polio virus where today kids are worried about their parents and grandparents contracting CV-19.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Rehab1

[Unventor]

I don't know if was the weather or the staying home last week  or something else. 

But cruising away shopping in the sun felt real good despite 5-6C. If proper clutched it isn't a problem with the cold. Actually I found it refreshing. 

I don't have any video. But I will add my euc.world lof and a picture from balcony.

https://euc.world/tour/584787331566327

I felt like a cow let out in the field first spring day.

Cruising...carving. with good oldtimer music blasting out of my new Bose soundlink micro...sweet home Alabama 🎵🎶🎸🎵🎶🎹🎵🎶

As a side note; I think it was yesterday or Thursday it top over where days now are longer than nights. This normally means we see a raise in temperature once the sea gets a bit warmer we feel the effect more. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Unventor

[Grumly]

@Unventor it turns out those who live farther from commodity stores are in luck these times, as shopping offers them a longer ride outside from home.

I have less than 2km from town where I get all I need. I felt some fresh wind, too, even living in "deep south" compared to you. Damn, they are right, global warming is bs ;-)

https://euc.world/tour/584783450535094

Not complaining though, living in the country we have plenty of post-winter home & exteriors repair/improvement work we can keep ourselves busy with. It eases adaptation when you can keep on with outdoor activity, even restricted.