esaj Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said: Many people have trouble to deal with this situation. No shit? People are panic buying all the toilet paper, non-perishable food, painkillers, vitamins and nutritional supplements. My sister works at a hospital pharmacy and knows other pharmacists working at "normal" pharmacies. People are asking things like "Should I be eating Burana (tradename for ibuprofen) as a precaution?". I don't know anything about chemistry or medicines really, but even to me that sounds pretty stupid... Edited March 16, 2020 by esaj Mixed up medicine tranames, paracetamol and ibuprofen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RockyTop Posted March 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said: Case ..........case .. ...case .. cases ... cluster, cluster ... boom 💥 Agreed. I have been saying that from the beginning. I am not afraid of the virus. I do not however want to pass it on to the weak or elderly. Hospitals depend on me to function so I will work until I have a temp and then stay home. It helps that I am mostly isolated from the public. The elders from my family are out on the farm. They usually visit town every two weeks. They have what they need for several months so they are going to stay home on the farm until this is over. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roland Posted March 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2020 @esaj I believe that we will see the real numbers in only after it is over. All the less developed countries or the countries in denial (Japan - did they do any quarantine measures?) will have a break down of their medical system. Only the graves will then give us a real number in those areas (#Iran where you can see the massgraves on satellite pictures)... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshio Uemura Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 minute ago, esaj said: Should I be eating Ibuprofen (tradename for paracetamol) as a precaution. Ibuprofen is used for keeping down the body temperature 🤒 Aspirin and other similar medicaments are widely used in Italy to treat CoViD-19 patients there. Some sources suggest that this may be the reason for the high mortality in Italy. It is the highest in Europe. So. Suppressing the fever might not be a good idea at all. I am not a doctor, but I myself would try to ride it out naturally without lowering the body temperature by using drugs like Aspirin or Ibuprofen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, esaj said: I've wondered how effective the temperature screening actually is. Couldn't someone be infected and spreading the disease, but without any fever? Good question. I’m just following the CDC recommendations that are implemented at hospitals and airports. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said: Ibuprofen is used for keeping down the body temperature 🤒 Aspirin and other similar medicaments are widely used in Italy to treat CoViD-19 patients there. Some sources suggest that this may be the reason for the high mortality in Italy. It is the highest in Europe. So. Suppressing the fever might not be a good idea at all. I am not a doctor, but I myself would try to ride it out naturally without lowering the body temperature by using drugs like Aspirin or Ibuprofen. Mixed up the names ( edited it to "Should I be eating Burana (tradename for ibuprofen) as a precaution?", shows how much I know about medicine ), but anyway, the point was that people are eating painkillers before they even know if they're sick. Usually when I have the flu, I just drink water and take some vitamins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshio Uemura Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, Roland said: @esaj I believe that we will see the real numbers in only after it is over. All the less developed countries or the countries in denial (Japan - did they do any quarantine measures?) will have a break down of their medical system. Only the graves will then give us a real number in those areas (#Iran where you can see the massgraves on satellite pictures)... For now we are not doing any quarantine measures in Japan,. And frankly I don’t understand why! Probably because of the false hope that the Olympic Games will still happen. We also have no border restrictions in place. A Canadian friend of mine came back from Italy a week ago. A few questions at the airport. That was it! The reason why there are still few cases here is probably because Japan doesn’t test. If you don’t look, you have no problem. That seems to be the official strategy. I expect quarantine measures every day now. And we are prepared for it since early February, when trusted sources expected this to become pandemic. I have been staying in for the last two weeks. It’s good practice, I believe. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 @Toshio Uemura I wish you and your country the very best of luck. And a warm place in hell for all the officials that are responsible for this in Japan . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshio Uemura Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, esaj said: Usually when I have the flu, I just drink water and take some vitamins. THIS IS NOT THE FLU! Sorry to post this again, but I think it is important for people to understand that this is not the flu 🤧 (in the sense most people use this word commonly) This is a SARS type pandemic outbreak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said: Ibuprofen is used for keeping down the body temperature Ibuprofen, Moltrin, advil, aspirin are generally safe to use if you have fever and they will not exasperate COVID- 19. You really don't want an escalating body temperature along with the respiratory infection that empirically ensues with this virus. Edited March 16, 2020 by Rehab1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshio Uemura Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Roland said: @Toshio Uemura I wish you and your country the very best of luck. And a warm place in hell for all the officials that are responsible for this in Japan . Thank you. The Japanese society is very disciplined and even though we are a free and democratic people, we are willing to shoulder any quarantine measures that will be thrown at the population. Most people are very informed and aware of the international situation. We are an earthquake, tsunami and taifun country and somehow, everybody is more or less prepared for sudden disasters. And in contrast to some European countries, people will stay indoors and at home, when asked or ordered to by the government. For now, even universities are still planing to run business as usual in April, but I doubt that this will happen. Exponential for me means “before April!” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 @Rehab1 I have some conflicting information about nonsteroidal anti-inflamatory drugs (Aspirn etc. ). I am not a doctor and you cannot rely on my advice etc. ... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Roland said: @Rehab1 I have some conflicting information about nonsteroidal anti-inflamatory drugs (Aspirn etc. ). I am not a doctor and you cannot rely on my advice etc. ... That is excellent! Thanks! I really like that guy’s advice and perspective on CIVID -19. No anti- inflammatory drugs for me if I’m unfortunate enough to contract the virus. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshio Uemura Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Ibuprofen, Moltrin, advil, aspirin are generally safe to use if you have fever and they will not exasperate COVID- 19. You really don't want an escalating body temperature along with the respiratory infection that empirically ensues with this virus. As I said, I am not a doctor, and what you explain above is probably correct and standard practice. I just wanted to point out, that there are doctors that relate the high mortality in Italy to the early and complete suppression of fever as it is commonly practiced with the flu. Of course the overwhelming load of patients the hospitals have to shoulder at present and the large number of older people in Italy (second to Japan) are huge factors too. But I consider it worth for researchers and doctors to look into this. If patients can fight the virus better with a well managed higher body temperature and if it might be fatal to bring down the fever to the normal body temperature then this should be investigated and studied, I believe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 22 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said: We are an earthquake, tsunami and taifun country and somehow, everybody is more or less prepared for sudden disasters. The Fukushima nuclear disaster is the second level 7 event after Chernobyl, and resulted in 15,000 people being evacuated as well as lots of pollution. "Michio Aoyama, a professor of radioisotope geoscience at the Institute of Environmental Radioactivity, has estimated that 18,000 terabecquerel (TBq) of radioactive caesium 137 were released into the Pacific during the accident, and in 2013, 30 gigabecquerel (GBq) of caesium 137 were still flowing into the ocean every day." Prior safety standards and recommendations had been of ignored, despite the statically predictable outcome of putting a nuclear plant just 10 meters above sea level when known historical tsunamis exceeded 30 meters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshio Uemura Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 30 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: That is excellent! Thanks! I really like that guy’s advice and perspective on CIVID -19. No anti- inflammatory drugs for me if I’m unfortunate enough to contract the virus. This is, what I was talking about. I am happy to hear it is researched. Let’s help to make this common knowledge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rehab1 Posted March 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2020 I found this interesting. The drivers for both UPS and FedEx delivered parcels today at my facility. Out of curiosity I asked if their companies were being proactive during this crisis. Each one stated that they personally have to purchase their own hand sanitizers and the companies do not reimburse them for expenses. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Another tipp would be to get your self a finger Pulsoximeter. It is/(was?) cheap little gadget that you put on your finger to measure the oxygen saturation and the puls. Private Pilots use it all the time to make sure that their oxygen level is good enough when they fly above a certain level. This infection will lower the amount of oxygen in the blood. So it should be a good tool to self diagnose your situation. Also you will probably feel the shortness of breath - but still could be a nice early warning tool... (Bought mine for 20 Euros) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Is it an effective quarantine when you put everyone in groups but havent verified that everyone is in the group has not been exposed? It sounds more like incubation to me. As in, go home, make sure you hang out with your family so everyone that isnt sick, gets sick. The upside is that most will STAY at home and ride it out. I was for sure a quarantine is only effective when you separate the sick and the healthy and dont let either group come in contact with ANYONE new. People staying in families at home and once in a while someone goes to the store or in public THEN comes back home.... sounds suspect to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Toshio Uemura Posted March 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2020 41 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: I found this interesting. The drivers for both UPS and FedEx delivered parcels today at my facility. Out of curiosity I asked if their companies were being proactive during this crisis. Each one stated that they personally have to purchase their own hand sanitizers and the companies do not reimburse them for expenses. That is what companies and governments have to learn and hopefully may learn during this crisis: to value and support their staff and citizens! My Austrian friend in Tirol, she works for a Japanese Company (I won't mention the name here. You can ask me in a private message, if you want to know.) was send home today to her husband together with all other colleagues for safety precautions and asked to set up a home office until further notice, even though no VoViD-2 cases were reported in the company. She enjoys full payment and was very surprised how well and proactive the company cared for the safety of each of their employees. Employees must be considered by each company as their most important and valued asset to serve the common and well understood purpose and goal of that company not just as replaceable slaves to make money. I really hope this crises makes people realize core values of our society. This is a no-go: Fortunately the German shareholders turned down the offer stating that they would develop their vaccine not exclusively but for people all over the world and affordable for everybody. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roland Posted March 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) @ShanesPlanet There is a nice article that shows how those partially effective quarantines work. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/ Korea, Singapur and Taiwan did enough contact tracing and testing and quaratine measures early enough that they do not have the problems that the rest of us has or will have soon ... Edited March 16, 2020 by Roland removed political conotations 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said: Is it an effective quarantine when you put everyone in groups but havent verified that everyone is in the group has not been exposed? It sounds more like incubation to me. As in, go home, make sure you hang out with your family so everyone that isnt sick, gets sick. The upside is that most will STAY at home and ride it out. I was for sure a quarantine is only effective when you separate the sick and the healthy and dont let either group come in contact with ANYONE new. People staying in families at home and once in a while someone goes to the store or in public THEN comes back home.... sounds suspect to me. An effective quarantine ensures medical care reaches everyone who needs it. Everyone gets the flu, you just spread the numbers out over a period of time. The US has a weird triage going on. 1/3 of US is uninsured, so they get no medical care whatsoever, but most of those are younger people. Then there's older people who all have Medicare, so they'll get most of the medical care but they need it since their outcome is the worst. Then there's the professionals with insurance, who won't die from it but are most likely to move around and contract the flu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshio Uemura Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 On 3/15/2020 at 12:21 PM, LanghamP said: This is an old person's disease, and kills off those who would otherwise spend years collecting government benefits. So, where are we now with the “old people’s disease”? Just a short update: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Toshio Uemura said: So, where are we now with the “old people’s disease”? Just a short update: Critical condition doesn't mean dead. They'll recovery and be just fine, but old people die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshio Uemura Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said: Is it an effective quarantine when you put everyone in groups but havent verified that everyone is in the group has not been exposed? It sounds more like incubation to me. As in, go home, make sure you hang out with your family so everyone that isnt sick, gets sick. The upside is that most will STAY at home and ride it out. I was for sure a quarantine is only effective when you separate the sick and the healthy and dont let either group come in contact with ANYONE new. People staying in families at home and once in a while someone goes to the store or in public THEN comes back home.... sounds suspect to me. People who lived through this in Wuhan strongly recommend for families to stay apart from each other and live separately if possible. So that they can support each other if necessary and that the kids do not infect the older people that are more endangered due to weaker immune systems or other health problems. In China a guy age 100+ has survived CoViD-19 after being tested positive. So I suppose it is more a matter of your general health and immune system than a matter of age. Young people who heavily smoke, have diabetes, asthma or problems with their immune systems are as much at risk as older people. So it’s better to stay apart (may be in pairs) even as a family so that you have several options to support each other or intervene. 32 minutes ago, LanghamP said: Critical condition doesn't mean dead. They'll recovery and be just fine, but old people die. Time will tell. Edited March 16, 2020 by Toshio Uemura 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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