How to ride an electric unicycle - understanding the dynamics

[Ancient Wheeler]

19 hours ago, Mono said:

[ video of self-balancing robot EUC ]

Thanks for that; interesting, but not what I was thinking of. This robot is doing just what the human rider does: using angular acceleration in the side-to-side direction to counter the falling-over forces. It may well work with a human rider on as well; would probably feel like it does when you're a pillion passenger on a motorbike, someone else doing the balancing, but you have to be aware of it and not fight it with your own movements.

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Ancient Wheeler said:

Thanks for that; interesting, but not what I was thinking of.

I know, you meant rather this

maybe, but I guess my point is that it doesn't really matter, either you can knock the vehicle over or you can't. In which direction(s) the stabilizer(s) rotate and how fast is kind-of irrelevant when the effect is that it is stable.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Mono

[Mono]

2 hours ago, Ancient Wheeler said:

This robot is doing just what the human rider does: using angular acceleration in the side-to-side direction to counter the falling-over forces.

Though humans can not standstill using this technique. Humans balance EUCs rather by steering (like bicycles). Flailing arms are only a secondary mechanism to keep balance, and the more advanced a rider is the less they rely upon flailing arms to help. My experience with seated backward riding suggests to me that even flailing arms may use a different mechanism: left-right flails twist the wheel (in the opposite direction) and hence accomplish the necessary quick steering movements.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Mono

[mike_bike_kite]

The problem with those gyro stabilised bikes is that the gyros need energy to keep running, they're dangerous in a crash, they also mess with the steering and the bike stops handling like a bike. I prefer Honda's approach which just takes control of the steering with micro adjustments and small forward backward movements to do the same thing.

 

[Tazarinho]

Observations on riding (95 kg  rider)

Gets a V8 without any prior knowledge: looks really cool, can be brought in the apartment, so won't get stolen like my bicycles and how hard can it be.

Gets on V8 in the parking lot: aargh, what did I do, I'll never learn this!
20 mins later: straight lines are fine!
2 hours later: zipping around and having fun! Hmm, wonder how it feels to go fast => BAM! ouch!!! right, that's why I ordered protective gear, too bad it's still in the mail!
next day: gets back from hospital after a scan, well at least it wasn't broken!
2 days later: rides V8 to bus stop and from other bus stop to work
1 week later: wonder what it feels like to go directly to work (about 20km) => wow wonderful! (never looks back)
2 weeks later: can finally mount without holding on to something.

Rides as often as he can. V8 now feels like a natural extension to his body. Reads a lot on forums, watches plenty of youtube videos. Is reasonably well aware of what the V8 can do and despite his weight never really has any trouble. Can't believe people call this an underpowered wheel, you can do everything with it.  And who would like to go faster anyway. Just the range, man, the range...

Ends up getting a 16X (after much debate). A bit worried about the transition and especially the dreaded gyro effect.

Gets on 16X: transition period hardly exists. Wow this thing feels like a SUV, so heavy yet so smooth! Sets speed to 40 km/h, not that I think I'll ever reach it
Next day: PLEASE DECELERATE! PLEASE DECELERATE! Oops!
Gets on V8 because it rains, and feels like always.

Couple of weeks later: Rides as often as he can. 16X now feels like a natural extension to his body.
Gets on V8 whoa, this thing is narrow! and so light. Can it even hold me, it feels so underpowered and squirrely, how could I ever trust this.

Guess all is in the eye of the beholder

 

[Bridgeboy]

It only took me about 7 or 8 minutes with holding onto my son's shoulder until I was going on my own. That was 3-days ago when my first wheel, a KS18XL, arrived.

Honestly I think I was able to get it quickly simply from watching so many YouTube videos of experienced riders making it look so effortless. I saw how they just stood straight up, not hunched over, and balanced as if they were standing on ground. After watching hours of videos of them riding (Mostly Chooch and Kuji, but others too) I just got it in my head that it wouldn't be hard.

Of course, I have a long way to go until it starts becoming second nature (I have 62-miles of experience so far over the last 3 days); but I think picking it up quickly at the beginning was just believing it would be easy because I watched so many others who made it look easy. If it was easy for them then it should be easy for me if I do it right. If what I tried doing at the beginning was hard then I knew it would be because I was doing it wrong and should relax more. And I have no relative experience with anything similar either, I'm not a snowboarder, or skater for instance. I just believed it should be easy and then it was (relatively). I think watching hours of videos of experienced riders built that confidence though; so in a way, that was time invested in learning to ride.

Still a whole lot to learn that will only come from hours of riding, but the initial "up and running" was relatively quick for me.

[Retrovertigo]

I think at the beginning you need a little confidence to go faster than you imagine is safe. Not too much, but that extra little bit of speed is just like riding a bike, and it becomes so much more stable. Watching some beginners trying to go at waking pace and failing because its just too slow to start off with. 

I am now very comfortable with my Z10 moving around beneath me and letting it do its thing. It feels so much safer and easier to ride that way for me. No speed wobbles anymore.....very few hairy moments when it tramlines for a second or so. Just enjoyment. Though after owning it for a few months now, I was shocked to see the app congratulate me for completing 50 miles!! I can't believe I've ridden it so little. I was convinced I had done way more.

[Areli]

Hello !

 

I’m a new member to this community. So far I am liking this challenging new hobby 🤗

Any tips for road ? 
also, is it just me or wearing boots vs tennis shoes feels more comfortable?

[RockyTop]

2 minutes ago, Areli said:

Hello !

 

I’m a new member to this community. So far I am liking this challenging new hobby 🤗

Any tips for road ? 
also, is it just me or wearing boots vs tennis shoes feels more comfortable?

Welcome, 

I use my wheel at work. I mostly wear work boots while riding. I have been hesitant to admit it but yes, I do prefer boots over tennis shoes. I like the firm response and ankle protection. I believe my boots are also slip resistant. 

[Rywokast]

1 hour ago, Areli said:

Hello !

 

I’m a new member to this community. So far I am liking this challenging new hobby 🤗

Any tips for road ? 
also, is it just me or wearing boots vs tennis shoes feels more comfortable?

totally depends on the person... I absolutely hate and refuse to wear anything but runners because you lose all sense of tactile feedback, something I use absolutely

[Aneta]

Yet, many injuries in hoverwheel crashes involve fractures in feet and ankles. Protecting one's legs is important. As they say, "It's all fund and games until someone..." - finish the sentence however you like.

[Rywokast]

16 minutes ago, Aneta said:

Yet, many injuries in hoverwheel crashes involve fractures in feet and ankles. Protecting one's legs is important. As they say, "It's all fund and games until someone..." - finish the sentence however you like.

I would tend to think you would be more prone to an injury elsewhere if you were to crash wearing heavy boots.. sure someone might twist their ankle in runners but it's better than falling and breaking you're collar bone or smashing your head.. maybe it's just because I don't normally wear them but I can barely walk let alone full on sprint in boots lol... if I were to come off an euc at any half decent speed in boots I'd be going down for sure.. whereas runners you can run off most crashes under 30 kph or at least greatly decrease the speed/impact of your fall due to running it off

[mrelwood]

It’s a lot about where one rides. I’m having trouble wearing anything else but a thick layer of Adidas Boost, especially now that the dirt/gravel cycleways are filled with footsteps-packed ice bumps.

Just yesterday I took a 55km long cycleway/semi-offroad trip with my UnderArmours that fit very well but fail to cushion very much. My feet are still sore and a bit swollen 24 hrs later.

Too bad Adidas doesn’t have more high-tops with boost to choose from.

[RockyTop]

They make some amazing work boots. light weight, non slip and so very comfortable. I am more comfortable in me boots than anything else. The high top ankles are quite flexible. $200-$250 a pair. 

[MR BRAD]

I’m with @Rywokast on this one... but I’m sure it’s speed dependent on safety... so, I’m also with @Aneta. I always wear boots on my motor(cycle) but I spend at least 50 percent of my riding time at speeds that would never permit “running it off.”  On a wheel (or, hoverwheel- translated for my friend @Aneta), I spend much more that 50 percent of my riding time at speeds that would be well within my ability to “run it off.”  Buuuuuuut.... I’m a newb on the wheel; not so much on the motor. Anybody use high tops? If so... recommend any specifically? And welcome @Areli... hope you enjoy this stuff as much as I think everyone else in this forum seems to!

Edited January 9, 2020 by MR BRAD

[RockyTop]

@MR BRAD Good point on running it off. I think it is comes down to technique. I feel comfortable sliding on my heel and side of boot. I tend to end up sit on my boot while sliding for protection from the ground. I guess this explains some of my boot preference. 

I am allergic to asphalt it makes me break out in a rash. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by RockyTop

[Aneta]

I wear boots with good ankle support and composite (not steel) toe. They are very comfortable and lightweight. Sure, you won't run as fast in them as in tennis shoes, but toes and ankles get injured more often than anything else and take long (if at all, esp. ankles) to heal.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Aneta

[RockyTop]

Yeah!! Composite toes are nice!! Mine are 100% metal free. Great for getting through metal detectors.... Sorry, I like my boots. 

Ankles?, I have been lucky. I am sure that I don’t want to break one of those. 

I do enjoy riding with Vans too. They have less cushion. I just don’t like a soft spongey shoes between me and the pedals. I tend to destroy the insides of soft shoes quickly anyways.

 

[travsformation]

Boots definitely offer more protection. I had a fall where I bruised my fibula, which is the last place I ever would have expected to hurt myself. In another occasion, the wheel twisted violently on a mud patch I failed to see and propelled me forward; as I landed and started to run it off, the wheel bounced from behind me and hit my Achilles tendon---that would have been nasty if I hadn't been wearing sturdy mountain boots.

Notwithstanding, like @Rywokast, I prefer sneakers because of the tactile feedback: I feel clumsy and lacking control with boots. They also limit ankle movement unless you wear them very loosely, which also hinders control. So personally, I prefer the active safety approach of having more control over my wheel (wearing sneakers) so as to prevent accidents, rather than better protection (passive safety) at the expense of a higher (subjectively perceived) chance of falling. But that's just my personal preference.

I might get some nice, cushy running shoes to absorb more of the shocks though. Thanks @mrelwood!

[Rywokast]

8 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Boots definitely offer more protection. I had a fall where I bruised my fibula, which is the last place I ever would have expected to hurt myself. In another occasion, the wheel twisted violently on a mud patch I failed to see and propelled me forward; as I landed and started to run it off, the wheel bounced from behind me and hit my Achilles tendon---that would have been nasty if I hadn't been wearing sturdy mountain boots.

Notwithstanding, like @Rywokast, I prefer sneakers because of the tactile feedback: I feel clumsy and lacking control with boots. They also limit ankle movement unless you wear them very loosely, which also hinders control. So personally, I prefer the active safety approach of having more control over my wheel (wearing sneakers) so as to prevent accidents, rather than better protection (passive safety) at the expense of a higher (subjectively perceived) chance of falling. But that's just my personal preference.

I might get some nice, cushy running shoes to absorb more of the shocks though. Thanks @mrelwood!

I think if you like them, some good quality comfortable high tops would be a great middle road solution.. to be fair though I am speaking vicariously not through experience.. I wear whatever is comfortable be it shorts and a t shirt, or three jackets with a scarf and toque.. luckily, I haven't been in an accident that would prove or disprove my theory

[MR BRAD]

@Aneta, @RockyTop, @travsformation and @Areli... what kind of boots do you wear? More power to you guys... I just think I would feel kind of disconnected with the wheel. 

[RockyTop]

6 hours ago, MR BRAD said:

@Aneta, @RockyTop, @travsformation and @Areli... what kind of boots do you wear? More power to you guys... I just think I would feel kind of disconnected with the wheel. 

Leather "Hytest" composite toe. I would not suggest buying a pair unless you actually needed work boots. It was a strange happenstance that I realized I liked them better than more conventional options when riding.  

[travsformation]

7 hours ago, Rywokast said:

I think if you like them, some good quality comfortable high tops would be a great middle road solution..

Yeah, that might be a reasonable middle ground. Although I think I'd have to wear the top very loosely tied. One of the things I don't like about riding with boots on is that I find it much harder to (power) brake. I hadn't stopped to think about why until right now, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with limiting foot extension when you're trying to push the wheel in front of you. Although, to be fair, I've only tried on the 18XL, so it might not be as much of an issue with lighter wheels.

7 hours ago, Rywokast said:

I wear whatever is comfortable be it shorts and a t shirt, or three jackets with a scarf and toque.. luckily, I haven't been in an accident that would prove or disprove my theory

On scarves or toques?

8 hours ago, RockyTop said:

I do enjoy riding with Vans too.

I think that's my favourite style of footwear to ride in. There's something about the width that makes me feel more grounded/anchored to the pedals. Narrower shoes don't give me the same sense of stability

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by travsformation

[Nic]

If you do a Google search for 'running boots' you will find lots of suitable boots that offer ankle protection without much restriction of movement.

[Rywokast]

2 hours ago, travsformation said:

On scarves or toques?

toques.. to see if they're a good stand in for helmets xD