How to ride an electric unicycle - understanding the dynamics

[M640x]

IMO the carving definitely helps across the board.  I usually use the local middle school for skills practice.  There's a quarter mile track, sidewalks with turns and big parking lot.  I use the Sprint straight away for start/stop and straight line speed.  The rest of the track for fast longer turns.  Sidewalks for corner carving and parking lot parking spots for back and forth right/left turns.

I too sometimes get the wobbles but have all but eliminated them with the whole one foot "driving".  Fact is, the wheel will go straight almost better without us on it.  We create the imbalance. : /

I've only been at this a month and I love it.  I ride for at least 15 minutes every day.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Senior Coffee

[RockyTop]

1 hour ago, Senior Coffee said:

I've only been at this a month and I love it.  I ride for at least 15 minutes every day.

Way to go!    keep it up for two more months and you will be a real pro. 

[erk1024]

19 hours ago, RockyTop said:

Simple solution: learn to carve. Just weave back and forth shifting from one foot to the other as you travel. As you do this you will learn to trust either foot to drive.

Thanks! I'll give that a try! 

I have about 450 miles of experience now, and I can mostly ride the 18XL without wobbles. I do think higher rider weight is a factor. The wobbles only come when I hit weird, undulating pavement and there are other issues like riding into a headwind or accelerating and I'm having to put more pressure on the pedals. But I'll try the carving / one-foot driving. On the Monster, I basically don't have any speed wobble problems.

Edited October 5, 2019 by erk1024

[mike_bike_kite]

I had my very first go on an EUC this afternoon! I was getting expert tuition from @Wonderwebb and riding his V5F.

Started off doing circles with one foot on the ground. I thought I was pretty good at this as I could spin round quite quickly with one foot acting as a pivot - sadly when I stopped I was almost too dizzy to stand up straight!  It takes quite a lot of perseverance to actually get on the thing and it was roughly an hour before I could get aboard using the triangle method and travel 10 feet. I was elated and who'd of thought 5mph could feel so terrifying? We started on tarmac but I found it difficult to relax figuring it was going to hurt when I fell so we moved to a football pitch. This helped a lot because you don't mind accelerating freely when you know falling isn't going to hurt. With more speed comes more stability. After another 30 min I could self start travel about the width of a football field in a straight line. I could probably of gone on even further but there were trees in the way and I hadn't learnt to turn yet  After another 30 mins I could do really shaky turns and managed to go all the way round a tennis court. I had to stop at that point because my legs were now feeling like jelly. 

I found the V5f pretty good for learning on and it shifted my 96kg body with ease. I was particularly impressed by the handle which made it easy to move when not riding. My very own V5F should be arriving at the end of the month so it's going to be a painful wait. Webby's machine had a protective jacket from Inmotion which protected it quite well but, being a cheapskate, I'd only ordered the protective rubber strips for mine. Once I feel confident I'll hopefully be using it for trips to the shops, cafes and the friends that live locally. Give me a wave if you see me in SW16.

Edited October 8, 2019 by mike_bike_kite

[stephen]

57 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I had my very first go on an EUC this afternoon! I was getting expert tuition from @Wonderwebb and riding his V5F.

Started off doing circles with one foot on the ground. I thought I was pretty good at this as I could spin round quite quickly with one foot acting as a pivot - sadly when I stopped I was almost too dizzy to stand up straight!  It takes quite a lot of perseverance to actually get on the thing and it was roughly an hour before I could get aboard using the triangle method and travel 10 feet. I was elated and who'd of thought 5mph could feel so terrifying? We started on tarmac but I found it difficult to relax figuring it was going to hurt when I fell so we moved to a football pitch. This helped a lot because you don't mind accelerating freely when you know falling isn't going to hurt. With more speed comes more stability. After another 30 min I could self start travel about the width of a football field in a straight line. I could probably of gone on even further but there were trees in the way and I hadn't learnt to turn yet  After another 30 mins I could do really shaky turns and managed to go all the way round a tennis court. I had to stop at that point because my legs were now feeling like jelly. 

I found the V5f pretty good for learning on and it shifted my 96kg body with ease. I was particularly impressed by the handle which made it easy to move when not riding. My very own V5F should be arriving at the end of the month so it's going to be a painful wait. Webby's machine had a protective jacket from Inmotion which protected it quite well but, being a cheapskate, I'd only ordered the protective rubber strips for mine. Once I feel confident I'll hopefully be using it for trips to the shops, cafes and the friends that live locally. Give me a wave if you see me in SW16.

Welcome aboard to the euc craze, I'm sure your going to have bundles of joy 😊

Your making good progress already keep us updated, hope the end of the month goes quick waiting for your wheel 🙁

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, /Dev/Null said:

Great post!

Sorry about the off-topic, but despite the capital letters I really, and I mean really love your nickname! 

[DaffyDuck]

Any tips for smooth mounting? This is my biggest problem for now - how to do effortless mounting in a straight line especially uphill,  it gets really stressful when you are next to cars and you start jumping on it up and down and wobbling all around. 

At first I was keeping the center of mass behind the wheel and was sort of jumping behind it and pushing it forward as if didn't have any motor, which was a mistake, it required a lot of effort (the motor probably was working against me even) and mounting uphill was a real challenge.

Then I switched to tilting the pedal forward first with the resting foot to make it start accelerating on its own and pull me instead, the center of mass is now above the wheel so I am pretty much standing (jumping) straight or even a little tilted forward while mounting. This made it much easier and requires much less effort, but I am still missing something I feel.

Do you bend your leg that's standing on the pedal to be sort of in half-crouching position while mounting, or just keep it straight right off the bat? I feel like half-crouching could improve the smoothness as you don't need to jump on it as hard and you don't need to tilt the wheel to the side as much, instead you sort of raise the other leg and then stand up, if that makes sense. The only problem is when you half-crouching it's hard to do good solid pushes with the other leg.

 

[Mike Sacristan]

2 hours ago, DaffyDuck said:

Any tips for smooth mounting? This is my biggest problem for now - how to do effortless mounting in a straight line especially uphill,  it gets really stressful when you are next to cars and you start jumping on it up and down and wobbling all around. 

At first I was keeping the center of mass behind the wheel and was sort of jumping behind it and pushing it forward as if didn't have any motor, which was a mistake, it required a lot of effort (the motor probably was working against me even) and mounting uphill was a real challenge.

Then I switched to tilting the pedal forward first with the resting foot to make it start accelerating on its own and pull me instead, the center of mass is now above the wheel so I am pretty much standing (jumping) straight or even a little tilted forward while mounting. This made it much easier and requires much less effort, but I am still missing something I feel.

Do you bend your leg that's standing on the pedal to be sort of in half-crouching position while mounting, or just keep it straight right off the bat? I feel like half-crouching could improve the smoothness as you don't need to jump on it as hard and you don't need to tilt the wheel to the side as much, instead you sort of raise the other leg and then stand up, if that makes sense. The only problem is when you half-crouching it's hard to do good solid pushes with the other leg.

 

A smooth mount is basically a very short single legged ride. We have to learn to control the wheel with one leg. The calf should be pressing towards the wheel and the foot is pushing diagonally on the pedal so that the wheel is locked into place. The knee should be bent and be over the toes. You can practice kick pushing the wheel for reps and go for more and more air time.

I made a clip a while back showing a couple of exercises.
It definitely takes time to learn a smooth mount and every opportunity for mounting and dismounting should be taken (meaning don't grab on to posts).

 

[Mono]

On 10/31/2019 at 7:30 AM, DaffyDuck said:

Do you bend your leg that's standing on the pedal to be sort of in half-crouching position while mounting, or just keep it straight right off the bat? I feel like half-crouching could improve the smoothness as you don't need to jump on it as hard and you don't need to tilt the wheel to the side as much, instead you sort of raise the other leg and then stand up, if that makes sense. The only problem is when you half-crouching it's hard to do good solid pushes with the other leg.

First off, mounting is annoyingly difficult and needs much more practice than it gets from usual riding. It also depends on how much space is available (can the wheel pass the foot on the ground easily?). The answer to the above question though is a resounding yes: the knee of the leg on the pedal better is and remains bent. I am personally not a fan of the push mount, because pushing the leg behind the wheel leaves you too long in the vulnerable one-footed riding position. Negotiating street irregularities and precise steering is very hard riding one-footed.

The IMHO smoothest and safest way to mount I only discovered when I was already three years in the game: instead of pushing the wheel to the front, I roll in the wheel from behind (bending the knee) and directly lift the second foot on the pedal when the wheel arrives without lifting the CoG, i.e. the knees keep bent until the riding position is stable. I can't say from experience though how effective and easy to learn this method is for beginners.

EDIT: I also don't see anything particularly wrong with the hop-mount, which would not ask for keeping the knee bent. I think I mostly did some mixture of these mounts (start rolling and get the foot up in a single motion) and never really liked to push until I started to be quite comfortable with one-legged riding.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Mono

[erk1024]

10 hours ago, DaffyDuck said:

Do you bend your leg that's standing on the pedal to be sort of in half-crouching position while mounting,

It helps if you tilt your knee inward a bit. I start with my left foot on the pedal. If I tilt my knee inwards, then when I start to put weight on it, I'm balanced over the wheel. Then as I bring the second foot up, the wheel isn't veering off.

But, you know, practice makes perfect. Wear some tall boots and go practice mounts for an hour...

[erk1024]

3 hours ago, Mono said:

EDIT: I also don't see anything particularly wrong with the hop-mount, which would not ask for keeping the knee bent. I think I mostly did some mixture of these mounts (start rolling and get the foot up in a single motion) and never really liked to push until I started to be quite comfortable with one-legged riding.

I agree with everything @Mono is saying. If you put your left foot on, and have the right pedal right next to your right foot, then you can have a little push-off just to get the wheel rolling. And part of "pushing off" is putting pressure on the left pedal, so the wheel is getting some "go forward" input.

You don't need a huge push off. But at the same time, if the wheel is stationary when you bring up your right foot, then it takes a while to get the wheel up to a reasonable speed to be able to balance it. So, a little push-off is the best approach I think. And you can cheat a little and actually have your right foot farther forward of the pedal (as Mono is suggesting) to get a bigger push off. The downside of doing that it if you're not careful, you can bang your right foot with the pedal. 

The mistake my wife makes, is she puts her right foot BEHIND the pedal and tries to push off, and she's way off balance because now that foot is then trailing way behind.

• Left foot on pedal
• Lean the wheel inwards with your knee
• Right foot next to (or slightly forward of the right pedal)
• Lean forward and do a little push-off
• Bring up the right foot

You want to accelerate to a reasonable balance speed as soon as possible. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by erk1024

[NerdAlert]

On 11/6/2015 at 4:31 PM, John Eucist said:

EDIT: This thread has become a wealth of information for beginners.  Please check out all the other posts by the community within this thread too.

Most of us who have been riding for quite some time don't give it much thought as it has been incorporated into our muscle memory and have become second nature.  However, for a beginner, it is important to understand the physics behind balancing on a euc and to be actively aware of this until it becomes second nature and incorporated into one's muscle memory so that one doesn't even have to think about it anymore.

When you ride a bicycle at LOW speeds (before gyroscopic forces take significant effect) you have to manually compensate by steering your front wheel left and right to avoid tipping over to any one side.  Balancing on a euc at low speeds is a similar concept.  If you are losing balance and falling (tipping) towards the left, then you have to steer or twist towards the left.  If you are falling (tipping) towards the right, then you have to steer or twist towards the right.  The magnitude of manual compensation decreases as the gyroscopic effect increases with speed.

While on the topic of helping beginners, another tip is to loosely hold a luggage strap looped around the handle of the euc.  This will increase your confidence as you no longer have to worry about damaging your unit, making loud tumbling noises, and/or hurting other people when you decide to step off in an emergency during your learning process.  Note that this is absolutely NOT used to help you balance.  The only downside to this is that one of your arms will not be free to flail to help you balance, however I believe the upside outweighs this downside.  Be careful not to allow too much slack on the strap to hang too low as to let it get sucked into the wheel.

Nerd alert/warning... If the angular momentum (moment of inertia x angular velocity) of the unicycle wheel were significant enough then the act of leaning would induce a moment that would turn the wheel into the turn proportional to the rate of change of direction (falling). This in turn has the effect of creating a moment that effectively tries to right the wheel. A balance occurs then as you are effectively falling continuously and that turns the wheel about the vertical axis (into the turn). I guess there could be a vague similarity with the orbit of a moon or satellite that is effectively falling continuously towards the planet and missing it round in circles. Same thing happens to a coin that rolls and starts to fall. It turns in tighter and tighter circles until it tips over completely. Turning a spinning object about one axis creates a moment perpendicular to that axis and the axis of rotation (helpfully determined by the right hand rules). I'm guessing this is what happens with the electric unicycle. Bicycles and motorcycles in motion are stable because of this effect and the fact the front wheel can rotate freely about its vertical (slightly off vertical) axis. If you resist the gyroscopic moment by gripping the bars the bike will simply fall, but if you loosen your grip (or, to be more accurate, the force in your arms) you will feel the bars pulling into the fall effectively preventing the fall. This is more apparent on motorcycles where the moment of inertia of the wheel and the angular velocity are much more significant than on a bicycle. If this is the case for the unicycle then pulling your arms in will allow the thing to turn quicker than if you hold your arms out as it will reduce the moment if inertia of your body about the vertical axis. The same way an ice skater spins quicker and quicker as they pull their legs and arms in. Search conservation of angular momentum and gyroscopic moments if you'd like to see the equations. I haven't ridden one yet so if I'm wrong I might die embarrassingly. Hopefully physics is on my side though

[NerdAlert]

The moral of my long winded story is go faster and let physics do the rest... hopefully.

 

[RockyTop]

31 minutes ago, NerdAlert said:

The moral of my long winded story is go faster and let physics do the rest... hopefully.

 

True but..... the faster you go the faster bad things happen. One of the most common mistakes that people make when learning to ride is over thinking. The part of the brain that learns to ride is the non thinking part. the thinking part just messes things up. .... Good post though. I had not really thought about having to counter a force to stop turning but you do.  

Edited November 7, 2019 by RockyTop

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, NerdAlert said:

Nerd alert/warning... If the angular momentum (moment of inertia x angular velocity) of the unicycle wheel were significant enough then the act of leaning would induce a moment that would turn the wheel into the turn proportional to the rate of change of direction (falling).

Luckily we have a much more effective force to help us turn. As the wheel is tilted, the contact area moves to the edge of a round tire. The circumference of the edge is much smaller, so the EUC turns like rolling a cone on a flat surface.

Since the tires used in EUCs are getting quite wide, the contact patch can be easily moved by a significant distance from the center line of the tire. This also gives the rider a better control since (s)he can move the pivot point fast for up to two inches (my guess) by just tilting the wheel. Add the cone effect and riding extremely slow is no longer all that difficult.

Although, I have noticed that on a knobbly tire the cone effect strength is just a fraction of that of a regular tire, meaning that the EUC will steer much much less when tilted. If the effect would be even just half of the regular, I’d have the most perfectest tire on my EUC at this very moment!

[DaffyDuck]

Do you bend you knees slightly when riding or have perfectly straight  legs (like standing on the floor)? Bending helps a lot with absorbing the bumps but feels exhausting and unnatural, though hitting any unexpected bumps while standing still feels like someone is pulling a rug from under me (my tire pressure is probably too high as well). So not sure should I start getting used to riding with slightly bent knees or play with my tire pressure?

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

should I start getting used to riding with slightly bent knees or play with my tire pressure?

Both!

Riding with bent knees becomes a habit soon enough, and will eventually save you from your feet slipping or even jumping off from the pedals at a surprise bump. No need to ride crouched either, just slightly soft knees will do for regular riding, and deeper the bend the rougher the road or going gets.

Optimal tire pressure is a key point to many aspects of riding and handling of the EUC. No need to start from scratch either, you’ll get in the ballpark with the tire pressure calculator at the download section of the forum.

Edited November 11, 2019 by mrelwood

[Rywokast]

2 hours ago, DaffyDuck said:

Do you bend you knees slightly when riding or have perfectly straight  legs (like standing on the floor)? Bending helps a lot with absorbing the bumps but feels exhausting and unnatural, though hitting any unexpected bumps while standing still feels like someone is pulling a rug from under me (my tire pressure is probably too high as well). So not sure should I start getting used to riding with slightly bent knees or play with my tire pressure?

"usually" my legs are pretty much straight.. but sometimes ill alternate between slightly bending one and slightly bending the other.. if i dont know the area extremely well ill keep em both bent and be at the ready... ive hit a bump a few times with straight legs and it kind of feels like my knees almost snapped backwards lol, its best to always keep the knees slightly bent to whatever is comfortable, and even better if you have a staggered stance.. you will be harder to knock down that way.. if youre pretty new, theres gonna be all sorts of leg pain.. expect it. you just have to do lots of riding and dont force anything just whatever is natural and feels good but make sure you dont lock your knees when youre new, yea its comfortable but thats a surefire way to get knocked off lol

[Mono]

6 hours ago, DaffyDuck said:

Do you bend you knees slightly when riding or have perfectly straight  legs (like standing on the floor)?

I have straight knees only if I go no more than 10km/h-or-so and I am certain to be on a very smooth surface. I faceplanted once when I overlooked a small speed bump going 10km/h with straight knees. Ask a skier whether they could have perfectly straight knees when going downhill with 25km/h. No way.

Bending the knees may not feel "natural", but that's the price to pay for riding an EUC and staying in good health with a good likelihood.

[RockyTop]

12 hours ago, DaffyDuck said:

Do you bend you knees slightly when riding or have perfectly straight  legs (like standing on the floor)? Bending helps a lot with absorbing the bumps but feels exhausting and unnatural, though hitting any unexpected bumps while standing still feels like someone is pulling a rug from under me (my tire pressure is probably too high as well). So not sure should I start getting used to riding with slightly bent knees or play with my tire pressure?

I felt the same way as a beginner. I remember hitting a bump with my knees bent,  my knees bent more and got me off balance. As you get better this will no longer be an issue. With time you will become more stable and improve the muscles that do the work. For now you might want to keep to the slower speeds with your knees straight until you become more stable. You do not want to hit a hard bump at speed with your knees straight. You will end up off the pedals.   

 ...  Or you can bend those knees and get used to the motion.   P.S. Foot position- most beginners start with their feet too far back. (front of the shin should be about center of the wheel)

Edited November 11, 2019 by RockyTop

[cerebralnoodle]

replying so i can send messages lol

[erk1024]

On 11/7/2019 at 5:45 PM, RockyTop said:

The part of the brain that learns to ride is the non thinking part. the thinking part just messes things up

I think it's important for the rider to know what he/she is trying to do. In other words, if you're falling left, tilt the wheel left. When you try to do the right thing, and model the behavior you want your body to do, it helps jumpstart the (non-thinking) balance computer. But your thinking brain just can't do it fast enough. 

For me, after 500+ miles, it's amazing how automatic this has become. I just don't think about it at all anymore. It takes as much thinking as walking basically. It reinforces the point that like 80% of what your brain does is completely unconscious.

[RockyTop]

8 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

For me, after 500+ miles, it's amazing how automatic this has become

Just wait, Keep riding and you will just keep getting better. Every time I think I have plateaued I find myself doing something that I could not before. 

13 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

80% of what your brain does is completely unconscious.

In the beginning it is better to train 15 minutes each day rather than 3 hours every Saturday. Your brain tends to process the information more after the training. 

[atdlzpae]

3 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Just wait, Keep riding and you will just keep getting better. Every time I think I have plateaued I find myself doing something that I could not before.

I agree. 3000km and still getting better. And not only in skill - a lot of it is the choice of equipment too.
If I lose 30kg I'll get better just because of physics...

Edited November 11, 2019 by atdlzpae