INMOTION V11 (2020)

[Tawpie]

41 minutes ago, Austinaca said:

Well it is saying my output is at 81v. I’m assuming that’s nit enough for what you have stated. Bummer

yeah, that's not enough 

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

Heaps of great advice above. I have a new phone so need to reset my alarms. I’m still learning a lot here and am thankful for you all.

Can I ask how others have alarms set up In Darkness bot? 
 I was really only relying on default alarms but feel I would like to monitor things a little safer. 

I think it is a question for the darknessbot thread? I don't know this as I am not on iOS.

[Wise Rides]

2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Sorry, that model (and 244 similarly) is far too large to fit V11. Width can be shaved, but diameter cannot. Cancel your order if possible...

I found this thread where another v11 owner got the 241 to fit:  

 

It looks like a Ninebot Z10 with that tire, but it does fit if you take the kick stand off.  I think it looks pretty bad ass and I'm going to give it a try.  From the videos and review, its off-road performance is great and seems to be tame on the pavement as well.  Could be a good all around option for people in the US right now.  I would love to get the Heidenau K66 Snowtex 80/90 D14, the Kenda K262, or the Cheng-Shin C186 but not having luck locating them online in the US.  

Edited December 3, 2021 by Wise Rides

[Forwardnbak]

I think my issue seems to be with battery all of a sudden. The shop apparently also replaced my main board due to some damage as well as the new motor. They are helping me debug it. I ended up walking today on my usual commute and I’ve never had anywhere near the troubles or tilts I had today. 
It was giving me all kinds of errors on the way home, large tilt, low speed warnings for low battery (it kept me to 18kph) then any slight incline even tiny it would give overpower get off warning. Seems like a totally different machine than before bearings failed, I guess it is kind of. 

[Flying W]

On the advice of the tire guru, @mrelwood I found a K66. Mine is the non snow version and it is the 80/80. I put it on my RST.

I have a 2.5 in tube from an 18xl on it and the fit is spot on. The rubber is thick as it's a DOT tubeless tire and fitment is more difficult. 

my trouble spot was all the yrs of dirt bike riding and using dirt bike leavers. I kept putting small gouges in the rim that were sharp. After switching to decent plastic leavers and running the smaller tube everything worked great.

so far I like the shorter 80/80. I would have have gone for the 80/90 of I could find it but even this one was hard to get.one came from a company called racing planet based in FL bit shipped from the Italy warehouse. Took almost 2months to arrive and shipping was almost the price of the tire.

it rides amazing. Low sub walking speed is great, breaking wobbles on downhill hard breaking are gone and the traction on dry lose gravely mntbike trails is very high. 

I'm glad I have the extra room for rocks in the wheel well the trails around me have a lot of gravel. 

Street riding is also very good. The grip and turning behavior instills confidence. This tire also doesn't follow the angle of the road like the 1488 did. It just made everything better. 

the only noticable thing is a minor vibration in the pedals, bit that was expected since there isn't a solid strip of rubber in the middle. 

as hard as these are to get I will be ordering a new one when I'm half worn, just to make sure. 

I can't imagine how great this tire would be with the V11s suspension. Of anyone here can get one DO IT! 

[Unventor]

@Flying W I fully agree with you on the tire. Especially the sub walking speed check control of the wheel. I normally do regard speed as a fun factor. But in this case I make an exception just to the oppersite. 😁 Sub walking speeds in inner city is a even bigger wow factor for pedestrians around you.

I could slow creep my V11 in Christmas crowd in pedestrian streets only. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Unventor

[Flying W]

@Unventor you are absolutely correct, people are so impressed when you say "excuse me" and they see a person on one wheel going sub walking speed haha. 

I just moved too so I'm in commute range again. I'm so happy to be back on the wheel most days.

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Flying W said:

@Unventor you are absolutely correct, people are so impressed when you say "excuse me" and they see a person on one wheel going sub walking speed haha. 

I just moved too so I'm in commute range again. I'm so happy to be back on the wheel most days.

Ahhggrhh darn you. I am Martian green of envy. 

As you can see why here. 

We have like 30+ cm snow and more are incoming. Then it show start to melt next week with night freezing temperatures. So riding EUC will be hard for some time now 😭. 

I so miss the fun of super slow riding just gliding in the Christmas shopping mood. 

[Flying W]

@Unventor I have no clue what those temps are even like, I live out where Marty lives in southern CA. Today was 56f degrees and that is considered cool here. It might rain a total of 20 days in an entire year so it's basically year round riding weather. 

Where I live now has very poor bicycle infrastructure so now I get to experience riding in a city environment with all the cars. Today was the first commute from the new place and my RST was on the beeper a lot. I understand why the city riders need more speed. 

Once I'm more used to the area I'll find ways to stay off the main roads and take a longer route through neighborhood streets where I won't feel "pushed" by all the traffic. 

Stay as warm as you can! 

[Forwardnbak]

Can I just check as I’m having some issues with my V11. Mostly battery or under power problems I think. It’s a new motor and control board. 
my wheel is only showing 83.2 volt when fully charged, it never did this before. Is there something I need to reset or adjust? 
thanks 

[mrelwood]

36 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

Can I just check as I’m having some issues with my V11. Mostly battery or under power problems I think. It’s a new motor and control board. 
my wheel is only showing 83.2 volt when fully charged, it never did this before. Is there something I need to reset or adjust? 
thanks 

If the displayed voltage is the only “issue”, don’t worry, it’s normal. The voltage can show anything between 83-84.5 V because:

- The circuits that measure and report the voltage are not precise.

- The default software based calibration of the V11 voltage measurement varies from mainboard to mainboard. If badly off though, this can be remotely calibrated by Inmotion.

I would however check the separate battery pack voltages as well. And as always, make sure to keep charging 1-3 hours after the charger turns green.

[Flying W]

@Forwardnbak my mcm5 had a board change and reported voltage went down to 82.8 when full, the packs measure 83.9 when full so it's just a reporting error. Hopefully your issue is the same, but no way to know for sure without measuring them.

[Unventor]

5 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

Can I just check as I’m having some issues with my V11. Mostly battery or under power problems I think. It’s a new motor and control board. 
my wheel is only showing 83.2 volt when fully charged, it never did this before. Is there something I need to reset or adjust? 
thanks 

The drive and main board takes a little volt to power, so what you will see is battery is usually 0.6V higher than reported volt from the boards. This seems to be general on most brand and models. 

I have seen the volt not hitting 84V on battery side every time between charges. But in general the battery pack should be very close to each other meaning within 0.1-0.2V On the board side I am considering 83.0-83.5V okey as long the pack don't have bigger difference between them and as long it it is fairly consistence.

If you see one pack drop like 0.5v or so that should raise an alarm bell. I do suggest you run diagnostic once in a while and upload that to Inmotion. As they can do diagnostics analyse on the "black box" data you upload.

 

[Forwardnbak]

Thanks so much everyone. I’ll keep an eye on it, the diagnostic seems fine. I mostly noticed a lot more tilt back and shorter range than I’m used too so am trying to figure why. I thought the low reading may be the cause. 
 

the service team at the store are helping and I trust them they are great. 

[mrelwood]

Since both the mainboard and the motor were replaced, I would expect a while for the consumption and range figures to settle. After all, the new bearing cover does induce some friction that will decrease with time.

 But watching the battery behavior is always a good idea.

[Forwardnbak]

Is it normal for the voltage to drop to 80 when riding? I just headed out the door after a full charge and logged into the INMOTION app and saw both batteries were 80.5.

I was reading another post about battery calibration is that something I can do? 
 

thanks again. 

[Chriull]

27 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

Is it normal for the voltage to drop to 80 when riding?

During riding there is a normal voltage sag due to the burden.

The V11 has 20s4p lg 21700 ?m50t? cells, so an internal resistance of very roughly something about 0.125 Ohm. So with an reported battery current of, for example 10 there happens a voltage drop of ~1.25V.

With 20A the drop will be around 2.5V, etc.

27 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

I just headed out the door after a full charge and logged into the INMOTION app and saw both batteries were 80.5.

How much voltage was shown after the full charge?

How much before you headed out of the door?

The 80.5V were under burden?

27 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

I was reading another post about battery calibration is that something I can do? 
. 

Afaik/r this can be done by inmotion remotely?

Such calibration makes sense if one is quite sure that both batteries are in good condition and fairly new and the charger provides full voltage.

[Forwardnbak]

That’s great info above thanks so much. 
I will take more time capturing data, I was only out the door and read email from my dealer service dept explaining to check the battery info. That’s when I saw the drop. 
it was not huge load but I was going on the flat when this reading was taken. 
 

Full charge showed 83.7

thanks again, just seems worse battery performance since main board and bearing change so wondering why it’s buggy. 
 

raining now and even though the new bearing have covers I’ll wait till dry. Rather not go through the cost or hassle of bearing work again. 
 

appreciate the knowledge and advice. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Forwardnbak

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

Is it normal for the voltage to drop to 80 when riding? I just headed out the door after a full charge and logged into the INMOTION app and saw both batteries were 80.5.

I was reading another post about battery calibration is that something I can do? 
 

thanks again. 

I can add to @Chriulls answer that if you go from room temperatures (20-25C) to northern winter (sub +5C) then you see chemistry not responding as rapidly as a voltage drop.

Coming back indoors does not necessarily recover the loss from the cold exposure. It might recover a bit but the wh need to ride in the cold is taking a bigger toll to deliver from the batteries. 

The 83.7v listed at full charge is very normally but it can differ a little from charge to charge especially in winter times.

I try to avoid charging as soon as I get indoor and park the wheel. I prefer the batteries to be near room temperature during charging to avoid stressing them and avoid condensation build up in the wheel if I can. 

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

Is it normal for the voltage to drop to 80 when riding?

Yes it is. Evx made a hard acceleration test on the ~1250Wh MSX (24s4p 18650) and was able to momentarily drop the voltage to 0% (100V -> 79.2V, equivalent to 84V -> 66V). 

4 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

I was reading another post about battery calibration is that something I can do?

On the V11 there is voltage calibration, battery pack balancing, and of course cell balancing. Voltage calibration is done by Inmotion, but can be done remotely. V11 takes care of pack balancing by itself, and cell balancing depends on charging habits.

83.7V full voltage is very good, no need to calibrate voltage. And as long as you charge the wheel until the charger(s) turn green, or preferably 1-2 hours longer, cell balancing shouldn’t be an issue either.

 Cold temperature though, it eats up the range like a mofo. My range for the V11 is something like 60km @ +20•C, 50km @ +5•C, and 40km @ -5•C, despite riding a bit slower and easier in the cold.

[Wise Rides]

I've been thinking about building an expansion batter pack for the V11, but I'm not a battery guru so I'm still in the research phase.  Wanted to see if anyone knows how the V11 battery pack is currently wired (how many cells in series and how many cells in parallel, and what BMS is used). 

It's my understanding that the V11 uses LG or Samsung ING 18650's cells.  Samsung's version is 3.6v with 3000mah with 10A continuous, 20A bursts.  LG's are 3.7v, 2500mah with 20A continuous.  Thus, there must be at least 22 - 24 cells wired in series (increases voltage) and at least two battery packs wired in parallel to increase the amperage over 20A (2200 watt motor = A x 84V battery; A = 26 (max amperage draw)).  

Am I looking at this correctly?  Wouldn't I need a similar size battery size/configuration as an upgrade so I'm putting the same volts and amps into the motherboard?  I suppose I would need the cells wired into a BMS which is then wired into the motherboard.  Hopefully, the motherboard would function as normal with the extra battery pack since its putting out the same voltage and amperage as the integrated battery.  

If I can pull this off I'm redesignating my wheel as the V11ER (extended range)!

[mrelwood]

41 minutes ago, Wise Rides said:

I've been thinking about building an expansion batter pack for the V11, but I'm not a battery guru so I'm still in the research phase.

First things first. Do you know what can happen if you accidentally short the battery while putting it together, or if your assembly is not very good? And do you know when the batteries can be and when not to be connected on the mainboard?

 Because if you don’t, you shouldn’t seriously explore the idea further. Sorry.

[Wise Rides]

16 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

First things first. Do you know what can happen if you accidentally short the battery while putting it together, or if your assembly is not very good? And do you know when the batteries can be and when not to be connected on the mainboard?

 Because if you don’t, you shouldn’t seriously explore the idea further. Sorry.

You're not my parent!

Seriously though, I'm well aware of the risks, that's why I'm doing my research first.  Besides, one day we'll all need to repair or replace the battery packs in these machines because they only have a certain shelf life.  

[RagingGrandpa]

2 hours ago, Wise Rides said:

V11 uses LG or Samsung ING 18650's cells.  Samsung's version is 3.6v with 3000mah with 10A continuous, 20A bursts.  LG's are 3.7v, 2500mah with 20A continuous.  Thus, there must be at least 22 - 24 cells wired in series (increases voltage) and at least two battery packs wired in parallel to increase the amperage over 20A (2200 watt motor = A x 84V battery; A = 26 (max amperage draw)). 

Sorry... literally every number you provided is incorrect.

But anyway- V11 uses a proprietary pack assembly (cells are M50T or 50E, depending on batch) with its own BMS and communication interface. You cannot use a V11 controller without a V11 pack. So if your pack dies or wears out, replace it with service parts from an Inmotion vendor.

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Wise Rides said:

You're not my parent!

Seriously though, I'm well aware of the risks, that's why I'm doing my research first.  Besides, one day we'll all need to repair or replace the battery packs in these machines because they only have a certain shelf life.  

I have no problem guiding you in how to replace the battery pack if you ever have to do so. But it has nothing to do with what you’re thinking of doing here. So far everything you’ve written shouts that you don’t have the knowledge and the expertise required to do Li-ion battery modifications even remotely safely.

I am not your parent, but having made a few battery modifications exactly like what you wish to do here, I actually do know what the risks are, and I’m not supporting a seemingly electronics beginner to start doing a work of an experienced professional. I also recommend for everybody else to have the same consideration.

 If you search for threads on battery modifications, you will see that you are not at all the first to ask something like this. So please, don’t take my stance personally. You will also see that the community doesn’t tend to give advice to beginners in how to build a Li-ion bomb. I think that much responsibility we all should bear.

 If I’m wrong about your electronics experience, please PM me and I’ll help you to the best of my abilities.

Edited January 20, 2022 by mrelwood