INMOTION V11 (2020)

[RoCan]

16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Those are one of the greatest moments, challenging and surpassing one’s skills! I love those!

 If you want to take it to the next level, replace the original tire with a more off-roady one. You won’t believe the confidence it gives! I just installed a mc tire Heidenau K66. I wasn’t planning on making a video review, but the tire surprised me enough to start shooting video clips right away!

 If you don’t want to wait for me to edit the video for the conclusion... Just buy the tire. 

Is this better than the C186? I’m just about to take my C186 off the MSX and put on the V11 but if you think this is better for off road I’ll think again. It looks kinda slick? I only want to be doing this tyre change once judging from the complex vids on V11 tyre changes.

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, RoCan said:

Is this better than the C186?

Turning behaviour? Yes!!! Deep mud? No. Silence? Yes.

 In general I’d say that the K66 is a nicer ride. C-186 is still a better choice for extreme off-road only riders.

The K66 80/90-14 did fit without mods, but the new tire hair does tickle the wheel well, so it is a close fit. I do recommend choosing the 80/80-14 size, as it’s closer to the original tire.

My C-186 also did fit without shaving or other mods, but it was a used tire by the time I put it in the V11. It is possible that a new one might not fit perfectly.

Edited May 23, 2021 by mrelwood

[stephen]

What do you guys think of the roll.nz  cover

 

 

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

What do you guys think of the roll.nz  cover

 

I think it sucks and doesn't really protect your wheel much, damages easily, attracts dust and just makes it harder to put pads or other accessories on your wheel. If you want protection better to get bumpers or foam in strategic places.

[.....]

Some wheels seem more suited for a RollNZ than others.

[Austinaca]

I need some help understanding why my v11 app keeps telling me I only have about 15 miles till empty after I have just fully charged it. It told me 68 miles only one time like the third ride I took on it. Since then it always says 15 or so. What is up?  Did I kill the battery somehow?  

[Tawpie]

10 minutes ago, Austinaca said:

v11 app keeps telling me I only have about 15 miles till empty after I have just fully charged it

What is the voltage (when full) reported by the IM app? If it is actually full, it should be right at 84V. If it's not 84V when full, there's an issue with your charger or your wheel. If it is 84V, it's a problem with the IM app (not the first) or the control board is reporting something incorrectly.

Either way, you should confirm using another app (DarknessBot for iOS, EUCWorld for Android) in case it's an IM app problem!

Edited December 2, 2021 by Tawpie

[Forwardnbak]

On this trip today my battery died really quick after half. Before I managed to get home it had told me “overloaded get off” I managed to ride very slow mostly down hill home.

I was super surprised it ran out, I’ve had no issues or even close to empty before. This record seems to show that I only made 50km and battery discharged only 67%. 
Am I reading this okay? Not 100% it recorded the whole trip so I think I’ll test it again. 
 

it is a new replacement motor after the bearing fowled up. Could the motor be performing worse than the first one I had? 

cheers. 

[Tawpie]

40 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

Before I managed to get home it had told me “overloaded get off”

I don't know the InMotion prompts, but that sounds like what would happen when the PWM goes to 104% (how that can ever happen is far beyond me, since PWM can't go over 100%). In other words, at that point you'd over leaned the wheel and the warning could have been worded "back off or you will eat pavement". The over lean point goes down as the battery level goes down, so you can't get away riding in as spirited a fashion as you can when the battery is full.

My KS wheels say something along the lines of "Battery low, recharge device" when the battery gets near to flat... I'd assume you'd get a similar warning, not 'overload'.

[Forwardnbak]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

I don't know the InMotion prompts, but that sounds like what would happen when the PWM goes to 104% (how that can ever happen is far beyond me, since PWM can't go over 100%). In other words, at that point you'd over leaned the wheel and the warning could have been worded "back off or you will eat pavement". The over lean point goes down as the battery level goes down, so you can't get away riding in as spirited a fashion as you can when the battery is full.

My KS wheels say something along the lines of "Battery low, recharge device" when the battery gets near to flat... I'd assume you'd get a similar warning, not 'overload'.

Thanks, I was only commuting but had been playing with hard soft settings while out this tIme. I’m sure I didn’t add any crazy leaning but I had adjusted pads and maybe I just hit the spot I pushed it a bit far. I’m recharging now and will test again. Thanks for the help. 

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

Thanks, I was only commuting but had been playing with hard soft settings while out this tIme. I’m sure I didn’t add any crazy leaning but I had adjusted pads and maybe I just hit the spot I pushed it a bit far. I’m recharging now and will test again. Thanks for the help. 

I don't think I ever hit 60+A on my V11. I have my current warnings set to 45A and it go off from time to time in EUC.World. As your battery drains to maintain the power of eg. 3500W means a much higher Amp is needed than at full Voltage. Depending on riders weight and how aggressive you ride you can push it up towards 5000w for very brief moments. so 5000w/84v = 60A so with this as a benchmark for very brief moments. 3948w/60a= 65.8V. That should be at the very low %. What you also have to considers that is at summer time temperatures. In my area of Sweden, we currently have -3 to -10C, and at these temps the chemistry do not reacts as willingly to give out power. Temperatures can be different between battery packs , motor, drive board and mosfets.

You might think of it as aggressive riding, but when using sidepads you can very easy push much harder without not really thinking about it. This is why I disliked using sidepads when riding EUC. When you need to force or lean the wheel it is much more obvious when things are pulling power.

These days I use a prototype of roll.nz bodyguard, with some added foam to make a little groove to better grip the wheel, but it isn't as easy to overlean the wheel with this. I really like the feel and friction of this as it strike a good balance to gain more control vs not to over lean as easy. @Chrissimight be able to share more how far the design development is right now. 

you can see the saddleguard here: (not my video i hope you don't mine lending your work @Lex Smith, and I given some input to design optimization to @Chrissi)

 

Mine early version look similar. But I added more attachment velcro on the on the wheel for the saddleguard to stick to as the loop under the pedals wasnøt string enough in my version. also on the to to keep the foam roll from moving too much under load.

Updated version :

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Unventor
I found the V11 saddleguard has gone live, with mounting video.

[Wise Rides]

Crap! I wish I saw these posts yesterday.  I just ordered ClarkPads for my v11 and hadn't considered that overlean would be an issue.  Makes perfect sense, too much lien/power draw = too many amps.  I'm going to update my EUCWorld warning to 45A so I don't over torque the wheel.

Just as an example, I recently did a ride on bike trails and used 50% of my battery from full charge, got 16 miles/25.7 km, and was riding pretty aggressively frequently accelerating up to 27 - 30 mph/43.5 - 48 kmh but average speed was closer to 16mph/26km.  At 185 lbs / 84 kg I think that's pretty good range for my weight and style of riding.  I don't see how Inmotion can advertise this being a 57 mile / 92 km wheel.  I'm curious to know if anyone has achieved this in "ideal conditions" like they advertise.

On my wheel I'm more worried about the motherboard temperature rather than Amps or range.  During the ride my temperature peaked out around at 130 F/55 C.  Outside temperature was around 70 F/ 21 C.  It seems like the board gets to 120 F / 49 C on average and goes above during prolonged aggressive riding.  I think the motherboard is running hot but not sure when I should get worried about it.  Wish there was a way to improve temperature dissipation.  Ambient airflow isn't really cutting it.  

Last thoughts/question (and I know this is posted somewhere in this monster thread), I'm looking for a replacement tire, preferably something with more off-road traction, but not too aggressive.  Cheng-Shin C186 2.75-14 F / R seems to have good reviews and fits the v11.  Anyone else have a recommendation? (links are welcome)

[Unventor]

@Wise Rides the key to get the long advertised range is a few things and since your way of riding is as far from it can be don't expect to get near that range.

It is pretty standard for most brands. Riders weight 65kg. Riding at 20kmh on level ground as smooth and even speed as possible. And as far as I recall at 25C temperature. 

This is not how most riders ride yet it is the same as for cars and their fuel usage. 

If you look over older posts you will see people complaining about range on almost any wheel. Yet they have not ridden in the way manufactory specify their range test. 

It is part reason why I lowered my set top speed to 40kmh. The drag resistance when going faster is very high vs the time save to ride a distance. 

[RagingGrandpa]

40 minutes ago, Wise Rides said:

EUCWorld warning to 45A so I don't over torque the wheel

At low speeds (offroad), battery current will always be low. And really, alarms won't help avoid overlean at low speed on rough surfaces, because there will be sudden spikes of current as you bump and jostle over uneven terrain. When you smack the powerpads hard, you'll likely feel the pedals dip forward. This is almost always recoverable at low speeds, and not harmful to the EUC.

At 170lb rider weight, I found it easy to cause the V11 to dip (overlean) when climbing grass hills using powerpads. It's a gentle dip, easy to react to.
 

40 minutes ago, Wise Rides said:

worried about the motherboard temperature
my temperature peaked out around at 130 F

That's mild, no concern. Trouble does not begin until past 160F...
 

40 minutes ago, Wise Rides said:

 I'm looking for a replacement tire, preferably something with more off-road traction, but not too aggressive

That's exactly what the all-terrain tires like C186 are for- you'll love it. Good manners on pavement too.

C186 and K262 are nearly identical dimensions and characteristics. C186 has no retail distribution in USA, so look for the Kenda instead. It's cheapest from the motorcycle shops, but on backorder currently. I think some EUC shops also sell K262 at a mild markup... ewheels had some take-offs, not sure on current stock, but reaching out to them, AlienRides, EUCO, etc is where I'd begin the search.

Edited December 2, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[Wise Rides]

11 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

At low speeds (offroad), battery current will always be low. And really, alarms won't help avoid overlean at low speed on rough surfaces, because there will be sudden spikes of current as you bump and jostle over uneven terrain. When you smack the powerpads hard, you'll likely feel the pedals dip forward. This is almost always recoverable at low speeds, and not harmful to the EUC.

At 170lb rider weight, I found it easy to cause the V11 to dip (overlean) when climbing grass hills using powerpads. It's a gentle dip, easy to react to.
 

That's mild, no concern. Trouble does not begin until past 160F...
 

That's exactly what the all-terrain tires like C186 are for- you'll love it. Good manners on pavement too.

C186 and K262 are nearly identical dimensions and characteristics. C186 has no retail distribution in USA, so look for the Kenda instead. It's cheapest from the motorcycle shops, but on backorder currently. I think some EUC shops also sell K262 at a mild markup... ewheels had some take-offs, not sure on current stock, but reaching out to them, AlienRides, EUCO, etc is where I'd begin the search.

Thanks for the input.  Very good to know about the heat and the tire.  I'm down to either the K262 or the K6680/80-14 all season.  

 

25 minutes ago, Unventor said:

@Wise Rides the key to get the long advertised range is a few things and since your way of riding is as far from it can be don't expect to get near that range.

It is pretty standard for most brands. Riders weight 65kg. Riding at 20kmh on level ground as smooth and even speed as possible. And as far as I recall at 25C temperature. 

This is not how most riders ride yet it is the same as for cars and their fuel usage. 

If you look over older posts you will see people complaining about range on almost any wheel. Yet they have not ridden in the way manufactory specify their range test. 

It is part reason why I lowered my set top speed to 40kmh. The drag resistance when going faster is very high vs the time save to ride a distance. 

Yes, I need to slow it down to get better range!  But it's good to know that my wheel is performing similarly to what other are experiencing.  One day I'll do a leisurely long distance ride to see how far I get.  We have lots of great bike trails to ride in my area.  Scenic and relaxing for cruising.   

[onkeldanuel]

Heidenau K66 80/80-14 is good for the V11? 

 

And what Pads do you recommend? The Flexpads, the Clark Pads for the V11? No way for grizzlapads or? 

 

Because i saw this and wondered If grizzlapads will Work in this plates:

https://hulaj.market/en/inmotion-v11/171-553-anypads-for-inmotion-v11.html#/62-kolor_impact-black

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, Wise Rides said:

Yes, I need to slow it down to get better range!

So true. The spandex folks interested in physics estimate that once you're going fast enough where rolling resistance is minor, doubling your speed requires 8x the amount of power. Drag goes up by a cube relationship to your speed, so if you want range anywhere close to advertised, you must mind your speed. Or only go downwind.

[mrelwood]

 

3 hours ago, Wise Rides said:

I think the motherboard is running hot but not sure when I should get worried about it.

The max limits were somewhere in the 90+ Celsius range… so you are still very very far. If you ever reach the limit, the V11 will force you to stop with a tilt-back, so it can cool down. No harm done.

 All wheels measure the temperature from different places, so don’t compare the values with other wheels. GW for example often has the temperature sensor so far from the heat source that they seem to be running very “cool“.

 

3 hours ago, Wise Rides said:

I'm looking for a replacement tire, preferably something with more off-road traction, but not too aggressive.

 

2 hours ago, Wise Rides said:

I'm down to either the K262 or the K6680/80-14 all season.

The C-186 (or K262) is an amazing tire, there’s no denying that. But the turning behavior is something that can take a lot to get used to. I only use mine (studded) during the winter, and since the K66 is so immeasurably more relaxed and fun to ride, I switch back to it as soon as the worst of the ice has melted in the spring.

 The K66 will not perform at the C-186 level in wet mud, but for the rest of my (hard core off-road) riding the K66 matches up or is better than the C-186. I would say that the C-186 / K262 could be a one you’d refer to as “too aggressive”.

 

3 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

Heidenau K66 80/80-14 is good for the V11?

The K66 80/80-14 is a very small tire for some reason, so I’d definitely go for the 80/90-14 instead with the K66. It doesn’t leave much extra room around the tire, but it hasn’t been an issue on my V11, even on snow.

3 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

And what Pads do you recommend?

DIYpads! 

[Chriull]

5 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 All wheels measure the temperature from different places, so don’t compare the values with other wheels

And @Wise Rides- do not look at the reported temperature value of the inmotion app. The alarm/warning/tiltback is triggered by the heatsink temperature sensor - which is the much better value, but higher than from other wheels reported motherboard temperatures.

So inmotion decided to not show heatsink temperature since too many riders were worried about these high values.

Afaik EUC World logs and ?maybe shows? this tempurature, if you're interested.

[onkeldanuel]

39 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

The max limits were somewhere in the 90+ Celsius range… so you are still very very far. If you ever reach the limit, the V11 will force you to stop with a tilt-back, so it can cool down. No harm done.

 All wheels measure the temperature from different places, so don’t compare the values with other wheels. GW for example often has the temperature sensor so far from the heat source that they seem to be running very “cool“.

 

 

The C-186 (or K262) is an amazing tire, there’s no denying that. But the turning behavior is something that can take a lot to get used to. I only use mine (studded) during the winter, and since the K66 is so immeasurably more relaxed and fun to ride, I switch back to it as soon as the worst of the ice has melted in the spring.

 The K66 will not perform at the C-186 level in wet mud, but for the rest of my (hard core off-road) riding the K66 matches up or is better than the C-186. I would say that the C-186 / K262 could be a one you’d refer to as “too aggressive”.

 

The K66 80/80-14 is a very small tire for some reason, so I’d definitely go for the 80/90-14 instead with the K66. It doesn’t leave much extra room around the tire, but it hasn’t been an issue on my V11, even on snow.

DIYpads! 

OK i See the K66 IS available as TT and TL, so i will choose the TT Tubetype or?

[RagingGrandpa]

17 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

K66 is available as TT and TL

Of the many variations, you want this one specifically:  Heidenau K66 Snowtex 80/90 D14 46P p/n 11160149.

It's rated for tubeless operation, but you'll install a tube anyway.

Another tricky tire to source in USA... prepare for a hefty international shipping fee. If you can find a K262 in-country, perhaps start there.

Edited December 2, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[Forwardnbak]

Heaps of great advice above. I have a new phone so need to reset my alarms. I’m still learning a lot here and am thankful for you all.

Can I ask how others have alarms set up In Darkness bot? 
 I was really only relying on default alarms but feel I would like to monitor things a little safer. 

[Austinaca]

21 hours ago, Tawpie said:

What is the voltage (when full) reported by the IM app? If it is actually full, it should be right at 84V. If it's not 84V when full, there's an issue with your charger or your wheel. If it is 84V, it's a problem with the IM app (not the first) or the control board is reporting something incorrectly.

Either way, you should confirm using another app (DarknessBot for iOS, EUCWorld for Android) in case it's an IM app problem!

Well it is saying my output is at 81v. I’m assuming that’s nit enough for what you have stated. Bummer

[Wise Rides]

I order a Shinko 241 2.75-14 on Amazon.  Having trouble locating the Heidenau K66 Snowtex 80/90 D14 in the US.  

[RagingGrandpa]

2 minutes ago, Wise Rides said:

Shinko 241 2.75-14

Sorry, that model (and 244 similarly) is far too large to fit V11. Width can be shaved, but diameter cannot. Cancel your order if possible...