IMPORTANT: 16X Riders, Please Upgrade from v1.05 to v1.07!

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

Did you dare?

I'm really conflicted. One post says "Great" with actual improvements. Then another post says the opposite. Etc.

So no, I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

[erk1024]

On 11/7/2019 at 2:37 PM, Marty Backe said:

I sure wish there was a way to revert to previous versions of the firmware. I fear upgrading to 1.07 because if I don't like it, I'm screwed. It's like being told that you have to buy the car before you can test drive it.

What you need is a box with two control boards mounted on top of the wheel. One with 1.05 and one with 1.07. Then route the wires to a switch... 

[Daniel-Son]

I think guys who use their euc’s for commuting to work would ride at a much higher speed, especially if they are running late. I believe that they need to update to 1.07 so they can commute with safety in mine. I ride for pleasure, and I don’t normally ride top speed, My average speed is 18 - 26 mph.  I’m not trying to get from point A to B as fast as I can. I ride for fun not for work. So for me I’m fine with 1.05. 

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, Daniel-Son said:

I think guys who use their euc’s for commuting to work would ride at a much higher speed, especially if they are running late. I believe that they need to update to 1.07 so they can commute with safety in mine. I ride for pleasure, and I don’t normally ride top speed, My average speed is 18 - 26 mph.  I’m not trying to get from point A to B as fast as I can. I ride for fun not for work. So for me I’m fine with 1.05. 

That's me, exactly.

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

That's me, exactly.

If that is the case, I don't see the big issue in updating. 

Not that it matters to me. I am happy with my wheel with 1.07. 

[skautas2003]

6 hours ago, Gaz Bon said:

Couple of things I noticed now on 1.07

1 Getting some braking wobbles not at high speeds or low very odd 

2 Had a strange peddle dip today only slightly but enough for a WTF 

All else seems solid enough ,carving seems more fun 

I forgot to mention that not just acceleration better with 1.05 but deceleration has same effect.

I had few issues when i need to start fast deceleration because car in front of me cross my bike trail and with 1.07 16x start "dead wobling dance" but because i am quite good dancer  ( or lucky) i was able to defeat wobling.

With 1.05 it decelerate fast and smooth. Had similar fast braking situations with 1.05 and no issues.

 Just to not be one sided:

i think that 1.07 has faster acceleration from something 43 km/h to 47 km/h I do not ride faster.

I usually ride rocket acceleration till 40km/h then linear acceleration till my "working" speed 45km/h-47km/h I do not ride faster than 47 km/h for safety reasons. do not like ping pong on edge.

For my riding style 1.07 different whell. than 1.05 and 1.05 a lot better.

If you accelerate linearly/slowly then probably 1.07 not bad for you just have in mind that braking also has linear effect if you want exponential braking ir starts wobling.

[RoadRunner]

10 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm really conflicted. One post says "Great" with actual improvements. Then another post says the opposite. Etc.

So no, I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

that’s exactly how i think 

[RoadRunner]

10 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

That's me, exactly.

And me. 

I ride to work everyday and I’m never running late because i always leave home in time, I’m german by the way. 

[RoadRunner]

For me there are only two things interesting in 1.07.

1. The light configuration.

2. These stiff pedals everybody’s talking about. 

[Unventor]

6 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

For me there are only two things interesting in 1.07.

1. The light configuration.

2. These stiff pedals everybody’s talking about. 

I were expecting @Hunka Hunka Burning Love to comment on point 2.

[mrelwood]

17 hours ago, erk1024 said:

What you need is a box with two control boards mounted on top of the wheel. One with 1.05 and one with 1.07. Then route the wires to a switch... 

Quite a switch though, as it should have about a dozen poles just for the crucial connections, and at least another for lights etc... 

 

Quote

I had few issues when i need to start fast deceleration because car in front of me cross my bike trail and with 1.07 16x start "dead wobling dance" but because i am quite good dancer  ( or lucky) i was able to defeat wobling.

With 1.05 it decelerate fast and smooth. Had similar fast braking situations with 1.05 and no issues.

Without yet having the chance to ride the 16X at all, it sounds to me that all negative comments on the 1.07 could boil down to just the added hardness of the riding mode. A harder pedal mode requires more work from the rider, and at least during emergency braking I get wobbles noticeably easier with a hard riding mode than with a medium one.

I’d try if the medium on the 1.07 would have some of the 1.05 hard mode feel.

Edited November 13, 2019 by mrelwood

[Unventor]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Without yet having the chance to ride the 16X at all, it sounds to me that all negative comments on the 1.07 could boil down to just the added hardness of the riding mode. A harder pedal mode requires more work from the rider, and at least during emergency braking I get wobbles noticeably easier with a hard riding mode than with a medium one.

I’d try if the medium on the 1.07 would have some of the 1.05 hard mode feel.

I think you are right on this. I know I am not pushing the limits on my KS16X.... at least not yet. The limits are outside my comfort zone even in emergency braking. 

When I rode my first night/dark ride this season, I found the hardness kept my wheel stable/still more that I anticipated. And I can use the maneuverability to emergency avoid pot holes too. 

So in the end I went a little faster than I would do in darkness on my KS18L. But still with alarm set for 35kmh and tiltback at 40kmh. I tend to have my comfort zone just below warning.

To me it is a good balance for ride time vs distance vs risk vs battery use vs stress looking for obstacles/road construction and traffic. 

Since my fast charger have a 3.5A output I don't have any charging issues either. 

Show you ever visit Gothenburg @mrelwoodlet me know. So you get to test a KS16X 😉.

Note just got tracking details for my 11.11 V10f so going to be interesting how I find its ridestyle compared to FW 1.07. 

[skautas2003]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

I think you are right on this. I know I am not pushing the limits on my KS16X.... at least not yet. The limits are outside my comfort zone even in emergency braking. 

When I rode my first night/dark ride this season, I found the hardness kept my wheel stable/still more that I anticipated. And I can use the maneuverability to emergency avoid pot holes too. 

So in the end I went a little faster than I would do in darkness on my KS18L. But still with alarm set for 35kmh and tiltback at 40kmh. I tend to have my comfort zone just below warning.

To me it is a good balance for ride time vs distance vs risk vs battery use vs stress looking for obstacles/road construction and traffic. 

Since my fast charger have a 3.5A output I don't have any charging issues either. 

Show you ever visit Gothenburg @mrelwoodlet me know. So you get to test a KS16X 😉.

Note just got tracking details for my 11.11 V10f so going to be interesting how I find its ridestyle compared to FW 1.07. 

@UnventorI think v10f  will be perfect wheel for your driving style 35 - 40 km/h. I liked v10f but because i needed faster wheel and more battery i upgraded to KS 16X. If i choose to have two wheels my second one would be v10f

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

Show you ever visit Gothenburg @mrelwoodlet me know. So you get to test a KS16X 😉.

Doesn’t look like I would, but thanks! Luckily one local should get his before Christmas, and he promised us a sloshy test session. I’m not sure he knows about the weatherproofsnesless of the 16X yet though... 

[JustChris]

I love my KS-16X. I learned to ride on v1.05. I was still pretty fresh when 1.06 came out, and I've ridden the last 50 miles on v1.07. It's probably a lack of experience, but I haven't ever had ANY of the negative issues I've read about, in any of the versions. 

Heck, even my KingSong app functions well, as long as I don't try to log in.

I guess I just wanna spread some love for my wheel. It's the best purchase I made in 2019. I'm sure I'm not riding it as hard as some, but I've got 120 miles on it now, and I think I have a pretty good sense of how it rides. 

My personal summary:

- No random tilting

- No cut-outs at any speed

- No Bluetooth music issues

- No feeling of weak acceleration or braking

- Just an increasing sense of love for this wheel.

I hope everyone else enjoys theirs as much as I do. I'm lovin' it.

[mrelwood]

12 minutes ago, JustChris said:

I've got 120 miles on it now

Best three days of your November, I bet! 

[Unventor]

10 hours ago, skautas2003 said:

@UnventorI think v10f  will be perfect wheel for your driving style 35 - 40 km/h. I liked v10f but because i needed faster wheel and more battery i upgraded to KS 16X. If i choose to have two wheels my second one would be v10f

I don't see the KS16X as a faster (at least not much) wheel. But I guess it has more to do with battery capacity/ range at less throttling from your choice of wheels. 

I just can't see me not having 2 wheels at any given point. you never know when a wheel needs service/tire change or otherwise is out of service (charging) and you need to pick up something at a local shop. Or a friend reach out to meet you on a wheel. Now in my case, my KS18L waited a long time for parts. 

I cannot really describe better than, the ride sensation is just inside the control, but yet with a feeling of being on the edge, due to the lean style riding at higher speeds. In that regard I can only say the KS16X is a fun ride. It is also what helps me to disconnect from what I do at work (It support for consumer end users), so I don't bring it with me home. I kind of view this as a tool to achieve mindfulness. Focus in the moment. 

It is something the KS16X do really really well, without having to ride max speed. Kind of an French/Italian riviera/road vs Montana straight highway as far as you can see. Or as a Mazda Miata (mx-5) vs an Indycar 500 race car. Imho the benefit is to have fun without having to go at max speed, and by doing so the risk/consequence is much less severe, yet you can get hurt still, if not respecting the wheel. And in this regard I welcome KS keep fine tuning the firmware. 

So I have not ridden as far as @stephen on the KS16X, but I have a feeling he would agree with me, from his videos. Man I envy his reverse ridding skills. 

[RetroThruster]

1 hour ago, JustChris said:

I love my KS-16X. I learned to ride on v1.05. I was still pretty fresh when 1.06 came out, and I've ridden the last 50 miles on v1.07. It's probably a lack of experience, but I haven't ever had ANY of the negative issues I've read about, in any of the versions. 

Heck, even my KingSong app functions well, as long as I don't try to log in.

I guess I just wanna spread some love for my wheel. It's the best purchase I made in 2019. I'm sure I'm not riding it as hard as some, but I've got 120 miles on it now, and I think I have a pretty good sense of how it rides. 

My personal summary:

- No random tilting

- No cut-outs at any speed

- No Bluetooth music issues

- No feeling of weak acceleration or braking

- Just an increasing sense of love for this wheel.

I hope everyone else enjoys theirs as much as I do. I'm lovin' it.

It's as if I typed this reply myself, same feelings and experience here:)

[The Fat Unicyclist]

On 11/13/2019 at 6:22 AM, Marty Backe said:

I'm really conflicted. One post says "Great" with actual improvements. Then another post says the opposite. Etc.

So no, I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

I've upgraded to v1.07 and back down to v1.05 and up again to v1.07 ( because I can)...

I think that 1.07 brings more positives than negatives - and I ride my 16X up to 45~50 km/h without any issue.

I do suggest you take the leap!

[skautas2003]

56 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

I've upgraded to v1.07 and back down to v1.05 and up again to v1.07 ( because I can)...

I think that 1.07 brings more positives than negatives - and I ride my 16X up to 45~50 km/h without any issue.

I do suggest you take the leap!

@The Fat Unicyclist no offense but when you write like this there is no information in your post could you add some insights for comunity  ?

Could you write in your opinion what is 1.07 negatives and what is 1.07 positives when you compare to 1.05 ?

That it is possible to drive both versions to 50 km/h i can confirm too. But driving characteristic are different imo.

[Unventor]

31 minutes ago, skautas2003 said:

@The Fat Unicyclist no offense but when you write like this there is no information in your post could you add some insights for comunity  ?

Could you write in your opinion what is 1.07 negatives and what is 1.07 positives when you compare to 1.05 ?

That it is possible to drive both versions to 50 km/h i can confirm too. But driving characteristic are different imo.

I do think you missed the underlying joking tone. 

[Marty Backe]

7 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

I've upgraded to v1.07 and back down to v1.05 and up again to v1.07 ( because I can)...

I think that 1.07 brings more positives than negatives - and I ride my 16X up to 45~50 km/h without any issue.

I do suggest you take the leap!

It would be extremely useful to me (and probably anyone else reading this thread) if you elaborate. Since you've apparently been experimenting and came up with a list of positives and negatives, perhaps you could be so kind as to provide a simple bullet list of the Positives & Negatives.

This is all very subjective so unless I know what you consider a positive, your generic comment isn't very convincing 

[Unventor]

Well you guys need to embrace the world more as it is, ever changing.... 

 

[skautas2003]

Do not touch sin (1.05) and you will be happy with ever changing world (1.07) :-)

[Aneta]

Is upgradeable firmware a good thing or bad thing? Some EUC models don't have this ability, and are like traditional cars: you buy it, and it drives (handles) years later exactly the same when on day 1. Upgradeable FW may turn your $2000-3000 golden carriage into a pumpkin (or even worse - a brick), and you can't go back. It can also present you with difficult choices, like if they fixed critical issue A, but ruined feature B you loved - now you're sitting between two chairs, you can't have both A and B, what to do, what to do?

Upgradeable FW also gives slack to the manufacturer to release poorly tested product and fix problems later based on user feedback (read: broken bones).

The wheel should "just work", and its "handling"/character should be set in stone. If they update FW, it should only be minor, non-riding related improvements (e.g. changing the LED color patterns, or abilility to speak "please decelerate" in different languages, etc.) Riding character of the wheel is a sacred thing and must be immutable.