Marty Backe

My new MSuper V3s+ and Gotway Screwed Us

374 posts in this topic

Just now, Jason McNeil said:

From what I understood, there's a unique cable interface, which GW refer to as a 'downloader', that communications with the board.

yip...exclusive hardware...only for resellers...

like i said somewhere else...french resellers (have) had this thing/updater at least last year, when Acm 67 volt rollout was

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1 minute ago, Jason McNeil said:

From what I understood, there's a unique cable interface, which GW refer to as a 'downloader', that communications with the board.

Oh man, that sucks. That means you get to open every unit to do this upgrade. Are you bringing a cot to sleep on, and plenty of coffee :(

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

From what I understood, there's a unique cable interface, which GW refer to as a 'downloader', that communications with the board.

Are they providing you with this interface cable? I am assuming that the interface cable must attach to one of the MB sockets.

w9sEnEZ.jpg

Edited by Rehab1
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I think @Marty Backe two events (melted cables shorting and then unstable firmware issue) should get some next generation updates. 

Axles need to be thicker to prevent breaks. 

Wire need to be thicker to handle currents during occasional steep and long grades to prevent melting failures. 

Additional temperature sensor to warn overheating at the cables and at the mosfets and at the motor.  So warning can be sounded before it's too high. 

In realty cables would almost Ned to be same gage as the ones in the battery pack since those seam to hold well so far  

 

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4 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Late last night Linnea revealed more details into the nature of the fault: the Engineer(s) thought it would be a good idea to implement current limiting (exact code snippet please?!) in an attempt to mitigate the type MOSFET of burnouts that Marty recorded on his ACM during that steep hill climb only a couple days earlier—obviously not from that specific example, but from a handful of other Users.

I don't think it's fair for Marty to be the unofficial test pilot for GW Wheels ;) Heading out to LA on Thursday to get started on this project. 

When dealing product safety, monetary considerations are subordinated to reliability. 

So have they positively identified the error?  Can they walk you through the steps necessary to replicate the problem?  And after the fix has been applied can they demonstrate that when going through those same steps the problem goes away?  Also, what assurances are there that implementing the fix doesn't introduce another compromise in safety?  I think if Gotway can provide acceptable answers to these questions, it would be a decent first step to earning back the trust that's been lost.

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49 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I think the overheating wires is well known now, and from Jason wrote, the failed firmware patch was an attempt to address the excessive current. Gotway probably now realizes that the only true fix is bigger axles and bigger wire.

Bears repeating, as it sums up the entire trouble short and well.

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28 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

In realty cables would almost Ned to be same gage as the ones in the battery pack since those seam to hold well so far  

That's a really smart way of seeing it. Do you know which gauge the battery cables are?

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I am going to attempt building a test rig. The treadmill arrives Monday which will be mounted between a set of parallel bars for me to hold onto as I plan to be the test dummy and ride the ACM. The ACM will be harnessed to the parallel bars in case I need to abort.

My dual probe temperature data logger arrived today which will provide quantifiable temp readouts of both the motor wiring and the mosfets. I plan to embed one of the probes directly in the heat shrink surrounding the motor wires. I believe I can simulate bumps  using a harness attached to my waist and the wheel. I plan to use the parallel bars to push off with my arms to create a bumping effect on the wheel.  It looks like I may need to check on a high speed camera as well.

 

 

Perhaps you could wear a heavy backpack to simulate a 220 pound rider if testing at your weight does not cause oscillation?  Looking forward to the testing!:popcorn:

Edited by steve454
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15 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Although I admire your hopefulness in getting answers to your questions, the realities of EUC life in 2017 should allow you to predict the answers. These small companies are not NASA or any other fill-in-the-blank sophisticated companies. All we can hope is a reversion to the old, established firmware that has served them so well these last couple of years.

I liken our EUC universe to automobiles  in the early 20th century. Cars were for the adventurous who were willing to take on a certain level of risk, and to work on their own cars.

I'm OK with that because I'm as excited to ride EUCs as the car enthusiasts were to operate a car in 1900.

I agree with you that there are risks we take and accept because EUCs are such a great thrill.  Still, I don't think we should be test dummies for Gotway.  If they don't know what caused the problem, they don't know how to fix the problem.  It might be the case that rolling back the firmware is the solution, but they should be able to prove it from their own testing instead of letting us test it for them at risk of our lives and limbs.

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

yip...exclusive hardware...only for resellers...

like i said somewhere else...french resellers (have) had this thing/updater at least last year, when Acm 67 volt rollout was

I bet not. Can you guys please provide me the files they sent so I can look them and find it is proprietary?? Maybe I will be able to make a backup so later if something goes wrong we have a backup of such firmware...

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2 minutes ago, electric_vehicle_lover said:

I bet not. Can you guys please provide me the files they sent so I can look them and find it is proprietary?? Maybe I will be able to make a backup so later if something goes wrong we have a backup of such firmware...

Today isn't April 1st is it  :confused1:

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5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Today isn't April 1st is it  :confused1:

Didn't understand your point.

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3 minutes ago, electric_vehicle_lover said:

Didn't understand your point.

I think the point was that GW won't let anyone have either the files or the means to flash the firmware. If only trusted resellers have access and one of them leaks the file, there's going to be hell to pay. Their firmware is proprietary for sure, and they probably guard it like hawks.

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1 hour ago, noisycarlos said:

A couple of years ago, there was a similar problem with Ninebots. As far as I know it didn't cause immediate crashes, but it was nicknamed the 'rodeo effect' or something like that because it didn't balance right and made you overcompensate back and forth, making it look like you are riding a mechanical bull or something.

In Ninebot's case they fixed it with a firmware update, I know you can't do that with GWs at a consumer level,

You are saying that Gotway does not do firmware updates through the app, like Ninebot used to do?  And they have to send a cable interface to the dealer to reflash the board?  That sounds like the dealership I worked at, some recalls had to be done at the dealership, where we had proprietary software to reflash the Electronic Control Module to upgrade to the newest version.  Doing it that way, there was documentation that the recall had been performed.  

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

 

I hope I didn't aggravate people's fears when I suggested that a full teardown of Marty's new wheel was in order.  

 

Well, you are the inciter of people's worst fears:roflmao:Maybe there's a spiders nest in there.  (of wires of course)

That robot would be perfect, wouldn't that be awesome to see riding an EUC!  You are the only person who could fulfill that photoshop phantasy.

Edited by steve454
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35 minutes ago, electric_vehicle_lover said:

I bet not. Can you guys please provide me the files they sent so I can look them and find it is proprietary?? Maybe I will be able to make a backup so later if something goes wrong we have a backup of such firmware...

think you got something wrong!

not the sellers will be provided with the firmware! The trusted reseller gets the hardware-dongle for connecting to the board and the file!

And is then able to flash the board of his customers  one by one...

For sure he will not set his reputation with gotway in the sand by providing the firmware file to others...

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

think you got something wrong!

not the sellers will be provided with the firmware! The trusted reseller gets the hardware-dongle for connecting to the board and the file!

And is then able to flash the board of his customers  one by one...

For sure he will not set his reputation with gotway in the sand by providing the firmware file to others...

Ah, so this is the way Gotway starts trimming down the resellers and customers and getting rid of the bad ones.  They kept trying and trying to make the fastest, most powerful wheels, and then made them more beautifully designed, and all they get is complaints.  I still think they are in the top two.

Edited by steve454
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Posted (edited)

Marty, 

Sorry to hear you took one, Im kind of lucky my msuper is earlier build 1300, I had no issues (hope I wont). If rocket wheel gains momentum I'll just ship. It bothers me and does more after reading how reckless Gotway is. If they don't change their practice, company will fail, just a matter of time. I really hope they will adress this issue fast and improve CQ. on their machines.

Edited by yourtoys7
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