RayBanMonster Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Lutalo said: Why not? Not sharing your preferences is not tantamount to arguing about whether or not safety Gear is important. I haven't met one person that would argue against the importance of safety equipment when riding EUCs. Since we are not talking about whether or not protection should be worn; but what types should be worn and in what situations, and there is no protection specific to EUCs, I think it is healthy to discuss the various tastes and preferences of riders when it comes to the equipment that we repurpose for our specific application. 1. There is simply not enough EUC-specific data for anyone to be trying to persuade their particular safety Gear preference as prescription based on their experiences as bikers or bicyclists. 2. EUC riding is not riding motorcycles, cars or even bicycles; the realities of using those modes of transportation is far more informed by data. Data obtained and applied to EUC riding is mostly data extrapolated from other modes of transportation mixed with the shared and personal experiences of EUC riders. The inherent versatility of the wheels make It far more flexible with many varied riding capabilities, styles and experiences. I ride on the sidewalk alongside pedestrians, in bike lanes, on paved and unpaved trails, our penguin riders in the arctic regions of the world have enlightened us on the fact that they can even be ridden on snow and ice. The only thing an EUC can't do is fly; yet. So what better way to obtain data than by sharing preferences and experiences? From these discussions we may soon derive EUC-specific safety Gear. Now wouldn't that be something? Over 25mph I just dont think we need to argue over what level protection you should be aiming for, kids are watching. high level protection should be worn. Period. Attempting to be arguing choice over the issue doesn't help, you're advocating less protection at this speed and above on the basis you have ridden a motorcycle and that you think riders who ride in a park only need to concern themselves with minimal protection. I disagree. I think its irresponsible & Ive pointed out that at those higher speeds, given the population of this forum, at least one of us will die in the next 12 months because we weren't wearing appropriate clothing to protect ourselves during the "quite likely episode" our behaviour predicts. Why you persist is unknown.. you must capitulate this high speed issue to one of caution, and bicycle wear at this speed is inadequate. I see you, I just hope you see me too.. Edited January 4, 2019 by RayBanMonster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 17 hours ago, Lutalo said: Indeed, our hobby is a long list of compromises 👍 Yeah, but since the LS2 weighs just less than 3lbs I think I can live with the extra weight. More interesting will be if it has less or more peripheral vision than my old Giro Switchblade? I feel it is about as good, but I won't really know until I ride with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 2:25 AM, JSUN said: So after reading thru most of this thread, I've decided on the fox proframe. It finally came in today and it fit my head well, however the helmet looks bulky. I will likely send it back and try to find something that is smaller. anyone have any suggestions as to which helmet would be smaller (as in not as bulky looking)? would the Ruroc rg1-dx be a good choice? smaller than the fox proframe maybe? I don't get the impression that many folks have actually read the thread because there are a number of issues that are being re-hashed and the wrong conclusions drawn, despite their being addressed earlier with reasoning and sources provided. To answer your question, if you are looking for a smaller helmet, check out the Leatt GPX series. They are around 20% smaller than the average helmet because of a proprietary interlacing v-foam tech. It's not just aesthetic: the reduced diameter reduces rotational forces. This forum is a nightmare for getting good information because some posters are in love with the sound of their own voice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stephen Posted January 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, mezzanine said: This forum is a nightmare for getting good information because some posters are in love with the sound of their own voice. I like all the information good and bad and make my own choices but i do like to hear everyone's veiws on stuff good or bad 🤗 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSUN Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, mezzanine said: To answer your question, if you are looking for a smaller helmet, check out the Leatt GPX series. They are around 20% smaller than the average helmet because of a proprietary interlacing v-foam tech. It's not just aesthetic: the reduced diameter reduces rotational forces. The Leatt GPX series weight is around 1300 grams. I ordered a Ruroc for this winter. I’m thinking possibly the MET Parachute for the summer. It does look smaller and is only 700 grams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 hours ago, stephen said: I like all the information good and bad and make my own choices but i do like to hear everyone's veiws on stuff good or bad 🤗 To be fair, it's a problem with the internet, generally. I'm grateful for it because it makes investing very profitable because people badly overestimate their aptitude. It can be frustrating in other domains, though. It only bothers me on an extremely serious discussion topic like helmets because the consequences of bad judgment are severe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted January 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) On 1/3/2019 at 9:07 AM, Marty Backe said: But @Hunka Hunka Burning Love 'good old days' as you say, were on the SnailBot. Speed can be fun , but consider this - most exotic sports cars rarely are doing 280 kph all the time. They usually are cruising around at safer speeds, and the drivers are still enjoying them. The Ninebot with it's 22 kph top speed and 20 km range was perfectly fine and kept you from going too crazy on sidewalks. It's still a good wheel as long as you understand its limits, moderate your expectations, and have a use for it within its capabilities. We don't see many people doing tricks like these on a Gotway? It's not always about speed and range. Just look at the Mten3 and how fun that wheel can be. The Ninebot's slender profile also boggled the minds of onlookers wondering how the heck can a single wheel with a shell with not much more take someone for 20 kms? It just looks like there isn't much there... how can it even do that? Some wheels just are classics. I'm sure @Vik's and @Jonathan Tolhurst would attest to that! I think each wheel has it's strengths and weaknesses. Even with my generic wheel, I had a ton of fun going 5 km distances on that at 12 kph. It served its purpose just like my old $800 beater of a car I had back in university. I loved that baby! Edited January 4, 2019 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 13 hours ago, Scatcat said: Yeah, but since the LS2 weighs just less than 3lbs I think I can live with the extra weight. Sub-3lbs is a very light weight for a motorcycle helmet. I could very much live with that also. I will do some further research on that helmet. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: served its purpose just like my old $800 beater of a car I had back in university. I loved that baby! And that beater is still going strong. Didn't I just see photos of you DIYing that one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Lutalo said: And that beater is still going strong. Didn't I just see photos of you DIYing that one? Uhh salty answer rubbing it in a wounded man still recovering 😉 Edited January 4, 2019 by Unventor I had to clearify...salty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Unventor said: Uhh salty answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Unventor said: man still recovering Jesus was still teaching when Hunka tripped over his Tesla! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted January 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2019 Whoa, I feel young and old all of a sudden! I guess I'm just what you would consider "timeless!" Ah it don't matter much as I'll be in VR, baby all weekend!!! My Oculus Rift and gaming light show PC has finally arrivedth! Thank you UPS! Woot woot! I'm so excited! Gonna rush home and set things up. If you find me unresponsive in my VR setup experiencing slight repeated spasms, don't bother me! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Smoother Posted January 5, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Whoa, I feel young and old all of a sudden! I guess I'm just what you would consider "timeless!" Ah it don't matter much as I'll be in VR, baby all weekend!!! My Oculus Rift and gaming light show PC has finally arrivedth! Thank you UPS! Woot woot! I'm so excited! Gonna rush home and set things up. I give up! We've lost him to the dark side. Still it fricking cold over here so it's probably twice as cold in canookistan, so I guess I can't blame him for hibernating like a flipping grizzly bear. But when the snow melts and he comes out of his cave he better be riding a Tesla or i'll send someone over to get medieval on his ass. Edited January 5, 2019 by Smoother 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyzeus Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) The more videos of crashes I see and the more I ride and understand this machine the more I feel a desire for a full face helmet. Didn't really see much need for wrist guards till I couldn't break fast enough going into a turn, managed to slow down to probably 8 or so mph but lost control and bailed but still tripped and landed/skidded a few feet. Caught myself with my wrists and my chest and luckily didn't have enough speed or force to smack my face into the ground. I definitely fell straight on and evenly, so if I had been going twice that speed or had more force behind me, I'm not sure I would have been able to keep my head up and my head would have met the ground first at the chin, followed shortly by my teeth and nose. Road rash on wrists/palms wasn't too bad but took a few weeks till the scabs were all gone. After that accident I literally went inside, cleaned my wounds, went online and searched for wrist guards, went on amazon and bought some...so maybe I should buy a full face helmet before I wish I had one. Anyways... I pretty much ride my EUC from where I live off campus to class (down a decent hill at one point) and back (about 5 miles round trip) and then toy around with it in empty parking lots around where I live at semi low speeds. I'd feel kind of silly riding on campus with a full face helmet/mc helmet when I'm usually going only about 8 or so mph on campus (maybe 15 in the bike lines or when no one is around) but I think I've also come to the conclusion that I would feel even sillier with a wired shut jaw and a 20k dental bill for implants if I were to face plant riding it and have a freak accident where I landed in the perfectly wrong way to damage some of my face pieces I enjoy most. Plus once I'm off campus I'm going faster, I'm on sidewalks, sometimes roads, and going through intersection crosswalks where I'm vulnerable to drivers and on the downhill portion I'm usually going about 16 or so mph... Right now the best options I'm seeing are something like a downhill bike helmet: 1. Fox proframe 2. MET Parachute 3. Giro Switchblade 4. Bell Super 3 or a full on motorcycle helmet option like: 5. LS2 Valiant (very tempted by this as it's only like $50 more than the downhill bike helmets 6. TSG pass (interesting but really not partial to the style) 7. Ruroc Atlas supermodular (interested in this but it won't be out for 6 months and can't seem to find any pictures showing how the modular aspects of it look or work...bahhh) I'm torn between what to get, need to go try them on, but have to have time to do so first. Torn between deciding whether to get a modular helmet with a removable chinbar like the super 3r or the switchblade or get something with no removable chinbar like the fox or MET. Wouldn't be bad to have the chinbar off when on campus but then put it on when I'm hitting the road but I've read about some incidents where the chinbar separated on the Giro during a crash and so am concerned about the reliability of it standing up to an impact and staying attached in a scenario where it's not just a head on impact but where there are also the sheer forces of it being dragged against the asphalt and possibly being ripped off from the friction. Not sure if the bell would be any better in that situation but has me leaning to the bell more than the switchblade even though the switchblade has the ASTM cert and the Bell doesn't. ...But then I could just get the ls2 which so nicely lets me pop the chin piece behind my head and put it down easily and would be more versatile in other places...but it's also hotter and heavier...and i'm wearing a motorcycle helmet on campus...I don't want to draw too much attention and stand out even more even though i'm only riding in bike paths and following the bike rules(I try and be careful and courteous and slow down around people cause I don't want to get EUC's banned on campus or give them a bad rep). So yeah, decisions, decisions... Edited January 5, 2019 by Heyzeus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 @Heyzeus I had the TSG Pass. I like it but I just upgraded to another on your list. The LS2 F399 valiant. I plan to test it for the first time tomorrow. The TSG Pass is good in many ways, but the LS2 are much more flexible approach but also heavier..on paper, but due to great fit and balanced I didn't feel that big a difference on the head. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask. I ordered the Ruroc skihelmet, but it was too small and I personally think at the price I expected better strength and quality. Right now the LS2 feels better, after my ride tomorrow I can give better judgement though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyzeus Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) @Unventor If you have a scale, can you weigh the helmet? The Swedish ls2 website you linked in a previous post (https://ls2helmets.com/se/commuter/valiant ): lists the helmet's weight as 1700 +- 50 grams or 3.75 Bald Eagle units (lb) where as ls2's US website (https://ls2helmets.us/modular/valiant) : lists the helmets weight as 2.86 +- .11 lb or 1297 grams Unless there is a physical/manufacturing difference in materials between the helmets bound for the Swedesh/Euro market and those bound for the US market I'm assuming that one of these sites has the wrong weight listed (I suspect it's probably heavier and so imagine their US site is wrong). So if you have a scale you can weight it on it would be great to know it's actual weight (and what size you ordered) After you test it on a ride, I'd be curious to know, how the venting is, how hot it is, if it fogs at lower speeds and whether it obstructs your peripheral vision at all. Thanks Edited January 5, 2019 by Heyzeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) On 12/14/2017 at 12:25 PM, Smoother said: don't care about the extra weight, It's not like I'm peddling for Gauds sake. Oh, OK. Then there must be some other reason folks keep calling those things we stand on when we ride "pedals." That there is a great looking noggin prophylactic. Awesome that it works for you. I like it a lot. You get that stealthy, menacing look from a device that keeps the boys at DOT smiling. I think that I am personally settling on the Bell Full 9. It's got some great features: great ventilation, comfort, great protection ratings and more. All in a 2.2lb package that comes in my XXL size. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07J2PXYBW/?coliid=I1C3AFV2CM4WRP&colid=DOAHQ04YHGZ2&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it Edited January 5, 2019 by Lutalo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Heyzeus said: Right now the best options I'm seeing are something like a downhill bike helmet: 1. Fox proframe 2. MET Parachute 3. Giro Switchblade 4. Bell Super 3 I dig the convenient removable Chin bar feature on the Bell Super 3. Plus it's very lightweight I am personally thinking hard about the Bell Full 9, but I like the fact that the BS3 is not as pricey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) @Heyzeus I read there is a differance between the Us an EU version. The EU on comes with pinloch system and a pinlock clear anti-fog visor. The US vetsion do not have this. (It was a review I saw this mentioned domewhere). Any EU site I checked list the as 1700 -/+50g but is comes in two shell sizes. 1700 is for bigger than large the large and smaller size is general spec for 1650 +/- 50g. My dealer said individual cut of each helmet is the cause to tolerance span in weight listed. I don't have a scale that can show me this little different with a tolerance that makes result reliable. Now I don't know if the is a differance in shell material. But on the other hand it might be differences between EU and US standard requirements by law or certification that make the differance you mention. Is it listed as a LS2 FF399 model too? Update: if you look at your posted links, you see differences listed in the visor section from above links. Material seems to be the same. It could be a copy past error from spec database building website too. Edited January 5, 2019 by Unventor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 7 hours ago, Heyzeus said: The more videos of crashes I see and the more I ride and understand this machine the more I feel a desire for a full face helmet. Didn't really see much need for wrist guards till I couldn't break fast enough going into a turn, managed to slow down to probably 8 or so mph but lost control and bailed but still tripped and landed/skidded a few feet. Caught myself with my wrists and my chest and luckily didn't have enough speed or force to smack my face into the ground. I definitely fell straight on and evenly, so if I had been going twice that speed or had more force behind me, I'm not sure I would have been able to keep my head up and my head would have met the ground first at the chin, followed shortly by my teeth and nose. Road rash on wrists/palms wasn't too bad but took a few weeks till the scabs were all gone. After that accident I literally went inside, cleaned my wounds, went online and searched for wrist guards, went on amazon and bought some...so maybe I should buy a full face helmet before I wish I had one. Anyways... I pretty much ride my EUC from where I live off campus to class (down a decent hill at one point) and back (about 5 miles round trip) and then toy around with it in empty parking lots around where I live at semi low speeds. I'd feel kind of silly riding on campus with a full face helmet/mc helmet when I'm usually going only about 8 or so mph on campus (maybe 15 in the bike lines or when no one is around) but I think I've also come to the conclusion that I would feel even sillier with a wired shut jaw and a 20k dental bill for implants if I were to face plant riding it and have a freak accident where I landed in the perfectly wrong way to damage some of my face pieces I enjoy most. Plus once I'm off campus I'm going faster, I'm on sidewalks, sometimes roads, and going through intersection crosswalks where I'm vulnerable to drivers and on the downhill portion I'm usually going about 16 or so mph... Right now the best options I'm seeing are something like a downhill bike helmet: 1. Fox proframe 2. MET Parachute 3. Giro Switchblade 4. Bell Super 3 or a full on motorcycle helmet option like: 5. LS2 Valiant (very tempted by this as it's only like $50 more than the downhill bike helmets 6. TSG pass (interesting but really not partial to the style) 7. Ruroc Atlas supermodular (interested in this but it won't be out for 6 months and can't seem to find any pictures showing how the modular aspects of it look or work...bahhh) I'm torn between what to get, need to go try them on, but have to have time to do so first. Torn between deciding whether to get a modular helmet with a removable chinbar like the super 3r or the switchblade or get something with no removable chinbar like the fox or MET. Wouldn't be bad to have the chinbar off when on campus but then put it on when I'm hitting the road but I've read about some incidents where the chinbar separated on the Giro during a crash and so am concerned about the reliability of it standing up to an impact and staying attached in a scenario where it's not just a head on impact but where there are also the sheer forces of it being dragged against the asphalt and possibly being ripped off from the friction. Not sure if the bell would be any better in that situation but has me leaning to the bell more than the switchblade even though the switchblade has the ASTM cert and the Bell doesn't. ...But then I could just get the ls2 which so nicely lets me pop the chin piece behind my head and put it down easily and would be more versatile in other places...but it's also hotter and heavier...and i'm wearing a motorcycle helmet on campus...I don't want to draw too much attention and stand out even more even though i'm only riding in bike paths and following the bike rules(I try and be careful and courteous and slow down around people cause I don't want to get EUC's banned on campus or give them a bad rep). So yeah, decisions, decisions... Well, the Giro Switchblade sure saved me from needing a new forehead, and I never felt that the chin bar construction was inherently weak. But of course it is weaker than a fixed chin bar, kind of goes without saying. The main reason for me not just ordering a second Giro SB, is more that it is winter here in Sweden, and in Gothenburg that means cold rain or slush, cold winds and general unpleasantness. Having a helmet I can actually close was my goal. For summer I plan to have a better ventilated second helmet, probably something the same style as the Giro or Bell R3, but preferably with a fixed chin bar. After all, in real life I never rode without it anyways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I have just returned from my maiden voyage with my new LS2 FF399 valiant Solid matt black (EU version). It is historically in many ways 😁 My first ever ride with a real MC helmet. First test of Pinlock system, can only say one comment in 2 words: Highly recommended. The ride today had 1-2 Celsius air temperature but the bike lanes and ground is still frozen. I set out around 14:30ish rode for 1 hour going shopping, pet store and supermarket. Now here in my area the sun sets around 15:40ish so it was very low on the sky when I set out. Perfect to test inner sun visor. Again this is out performed my exportation. It can have a little glare but I was riding with the sun directly in my eyes and yet I didn't have to difficult to see ground contour scouting for icey spots and pot holes and loose gravel spread out for traction in icey roads. I am also extremely happy how the flip up makes it so much easier to enter and exit the helmet together with the metal micro lock system. Very easy to use with gloves once the master distance is set correct. So any downside to the helmet? Aye, it shield out external sounds so I don't have any hearing since of the surroundings. It is much more th than my TSG Pass. It is also heavier...but to me it is not so bad. So I think with time my neck will get used to it. The helmet comes with a inflatable neck support. I am not sure if i want go use this since it kinda locks my head in place, making it even more difficult to see traffic from rear. I have yet to obtain 3m dual lock tape to instal my rear view mirror. But so far I like it. Sorry for not getting any vids today. But it was a last minute decision to ride despite frozen ground and risk of icey spots. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayBanMonster Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 10:55 PM, Lutalo said: I am in no position to dispute what your point about collision probability; although, haven't seen any actual data specific to EUCs to confirm that. I have personally read about only one rider being hit by a car (I think it was San Francisco), and fellow rider barely averting being destroyed by a bus in DC; his wheel didn't escape and was destroyed by that bus. There are likely more collisions about which I do not know, but I am not sure that they even come close to matching the number of faceplants and other various sudden dislodgings that are reported on the forum. While using the forum as a source of information is not entirely reliable because there may be many riders around the world that do not use it, I think the vibrancy of the activity on the forum paints a fairly realistic picture of the EUC universe. Personally, I have never even had a close call with a car, and I ride in some pretty ridiculous urban conditions fairly often. I am however running out of fingers counting the number of times I have faceplanted or otherwise dislodged from a wheel. I am unconvinced that riding around with a five pound dumbbell upon my noggin is preparation for an inevitable, or even likely catastrophe. 1. Its not about probability my friend, its about absolute risk... this means ride number 3004 could still produce the outlier were discussing. 2. Please note my riding style, Im looking at city riding >25mph, Im not going to be hanging around in Parks much, no... Ill be at risk therefore by cars in front of braking zones, cars behind if I faceplant and cars in front who dont see me (the highest cause of fatality by motorcycle riders) 3. Your experience is valid, (thank you), but lets not pretend that is some equivocation for all that is possible, thats my point really.. we just dont know the permutations. 4. Even a faceplant as >25mph is a high risk event... get those sliders all over... I fear anything that grips, geez.. if it grips your looking at dislocation and fractures of your complex physiology.. no question.. Slide guys.. slide! 5. Lastly, you said "I am unconvinced that riding around with a five pound dumbbell upon my noggin is preparation for an inevitable, or even likely catastrophe. " Good luck my friend, I wish you wisdom and safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayBanMonster Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 9:54 AM, mezzanine said: This forum is a nightmare for getting good information because some posters are in love with the sound of their own voice. To know good information from bad is a mater of perception and personal judgement though... I come here primarily because it is entertaining, I do not suggest or advocate coming here for any definitive answers on safety issues. Please allow me to love my own voice :-) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RayBanMonster Posted January 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2019 All together now my EUC freinds Quote Quote Quote Wrists, Shoulders Knees and Toes (Knees & toes)... Wrists, Shoulders Knees and Toes (Knees & toes)... Head & chin & Mouth & nose... Wrists, Shoulders Knees and Toes Knees and Toes... ahhh.. thats better. :-) 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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